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The God Delusion

13567…22

Comments

  • #62
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    MisterEpicurus wrote: »

    I'm amazed at the utter irrelevance of this point.

    Just say religious people killed 50 million through the ages and atheist folks were responsible for killing 100 million folks, then does this affect the question of whether or not god exists? I think self-evidently not.

    In other words, does the social impact of a belief system act as verification of that belief system? So I always cringe when I hear atheists and religious folk debate death tolls and 'who had the best murderers' in debates about the existence of god, because this point is completely neutral on that answer. Even if atheism did lead to more mass atrocities, it doesn't make atheism false.

    That being said, as an atheist, I also cringe when I see a mass of atheists acting smug and 'enlightened' during their foreplay of intellectual masturbation.

    I agree it is irrelevant to whether or not God exists. I bring it out in the event that people claim a connection between Biblical Christianity and war. In Jesus' teaching there is very little.

    You might want to blame the person who first mentioned it :)


  • #63
    LivelineDipso
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭LivelineDipso


    Seaneh wrote: »
    I find that when Dawkins speaks publically, he is rational and reasoned and makes a good argument, and not just on stuff like religion, he speaks publicly on a lot of topics, his actual field of study for one. But post The Selfish Gene, his writing has become more self gratifying, he's just feeding into the image of himself that has been portrayed by the media for the last 15-odd years, it's continually more filled with boorish rants and "aren't we all so enlightened" black slapping nonsense.

    So in conclusion: In person, articulate, rational, well argued and most importantly, reasonable.
    In print, boorish, smug, full of hostile rhetoric and all in all part of the neo-atheistic circle jerk that's more and more boring to witness.

    Apparently his academic works, when he is bothered to actually invest time in them these days, is still pretty good stuff.


    I would agree with this.

    Being a self-rightous aetheist is pretty much being an asshole as well. It's incredibly uncool now which explains why they are increasingly angry these days.


  • #64
    MisterEpicurus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 588 ✭✭✭MisterEpicurus


    philologos wrote: »
    I agree it is irrelevant to whether or not God exists. I bring it out in the event that people claim a connection between Biblical Christianity and war. In Jesus' teaching there is very little.

    You might want to blame the person who first mentioned it :)

    Yes, I dislike when either atheist or religious folk being it up. Whoever said it needs to actually think of a real argument against the existence of god, and I'm sorry to say Philologos, there are many ;-).


  • #65
    LivelineDipso
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭LivelineDipso


    philologos wrote: »
    I agree it is irrelevant to whether or not God exists. I bring it out in the event that people claim a connection between Biblical Christianity and war. In Jesus' teaching there is very little.

    You might want to blame the person who first mentioned it :)

    the thing is all the "christian" evil is in the Old Testement which is actually a semetic barbaric bronze age text.

    There was a very good thread on here about the Cathars who rejected the old testament as the work of satan.

    If Christianity was just Jesus, it would be closer to Buddhism.


  • #66
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    LivelineDipso wrote: »
    the thing is all the "christian" evil is in the Old Testement which is actually a semetic barbaric bronze age text.

    There was a very good thread on here about the Cathars who rejected the old testament as the work of satan.

    If Christianity was just Jesus, it would be closer to Buddhism.

    Have you ever read the four Gospels?

    By the by, I don't believe the Old Testament is "evil".


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  • #67
    TwoShedsJackson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    philologos wrote: »
    In Jesus' teaching there is very little.

    Shame that in the actions of people who profess to follow Jesus, there is rather a lot.


  • #68
    Seaneh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,300 ✭✭✭✭Seaneh


    LivelineDipso wrote: »

    If Christianity was just Jesus, it would be closer to Buddhism.

    Eh, no it wouldn't.

    This "Jesus was a bhuddist" stuff gets rolled out every so often and, really, he was as far from a bhuddist as was from a Hindu or a Norseman.

    It's almost as wrong as the terrible arguments at the start of Zeitgist (possibly the most factually incorrect "documentary" of the last 20 years).


  • #69
    Lemonperv
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 97 ✭✭Lemonperv


    conorhal wrote: »

    As opposed to those harmeless athiests like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot?

    Blaming religion for human failings is as lazy as claiming God is responsible for it's graces. Scratch the surface of any religious conflict and mans 'will to power' is as evident in their horrors as they are in any secular conflict.

    I think it's time the mods banish all of these kind of posts to the appropriate forum so that we can all get back to insulting each other over more earthly matters....

    Others below have responded to your comment re: the atheist dictators - i.e. they didn't kill people in the name of atheism. They killed people to protect the totalitarian regime. They were hardly rationalists; in fact they portrayed themselves as Demi-Gods.


  • #70
    Seaneh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,300 ✭✭✭✭Seaneh


    TwoShedsJackson wrote: »
    Shame that in the actions of people who profess to follow Jesus, there is rather a lot.

    people who claimed to follow jesus, not people who actually followed jesus, there is a tangible difference. If they actually followed Jesus, and actually knew what Christianity thought, they wouldn't have started wars and inquisitions and witch hunts, none of which are compatible with Christianity. But hey, bad people use good causes to hide behind all the time, not just in the case of religion.

    But rather than actually just admit that, it's easier to just say "Christians did bad stuff". When you know yourself that those people weren't actually Christians.


  • #71
    gcgirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭gcgirl


    9959 wrote: »

    A little curious perhaps, but hardly mystifying.
    Believing that the world was created in six days, now that's what I'd call mystifying.

    Paul McCartney's first name is James, yet he uses his middle name as his first name. Mad stuff!
    my old dear uses her 2nd name too


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  • #72
    --Kaiser--
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    philologos wrote: »
    Have you ever read the four Gospels?

    By the by, I don't believe the Old Testament is "evil".

    Have you ever read the Old Testament? If that book is not evil then nothing is


  • #73
    Ush1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,484 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    Forget the four gospels, have ye read the fifth one? It's a special edition.

    Oh man it's a doozy. Found in ancient times, circa 1992, in the back of a UCI cinema screen wedged between a springy chair and an empty nacho container. It's seriously dynamite stuff.


  • #74
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »

    Have you ever read the Old Testament? If that book is not evil then nothing is

    Yes I've read it. I'm familiar enough with it. I find that the people who make these claims have never read all 39 books of the Old Testament and take a heck of a lot of it out of it's original context. Moreover most don't even understand how Christians read the OT in consideration of what Jesus did for humanity.


  • #75
    9959
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭9959


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    Have you ever read the Old Testament? If that book is not evil then nothing is

    Point taken, but you might be confusing 'evil' with 'bonkers'.


  • #76
    Seaneh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,300 ✭✭✭✭Seaneh


    philologos wrote: »
    Moreover most don't even understand how Christians read the OT in consideration of what Jesus did for humanity.

    And this is extremely important, this misunderstanding leads to stupid questions like "why arent you circumcised, why do you eat pork, why are you wearing blended fabrics, etc.".


  • #77
    --Kaiser--
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    philologos wrote: »
    Yes I've read it. I'm familiar enough with it. I find that the people who make these claims have never read all 39 books if the Old Testament and take a heck of a lot of it out of it's original context. Moreover most don't even understand how Christians read the OT in consideration of what Jesus did for humanity.

    God told Abraham to kill his son. God smiting any number of people. A man who offers his daughters to be raped to save some angels. In or out of context, the book is full of such wickedness. Of course you can choose to ignore these parts but it makes you a moral retard


  • #78
    ahnowbrowncow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭ahnowbrowncow


    Dahlia Spicy Family wrote: »
    Ah yes, Dawkins. I'm a big fan. The only living member of the modern-day Holy Trilogy (Dawkins, Hitchens and Darwin). Praise be to Dawkins. Amen.

    Is this you?

    http://blogs.psychsterdata.com/yjgm/Big-Fan.jpg


  • #79
    9959
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭9959


    Seaneh wrote: »
    And this is extremely important, this misunderstanding leads to stupid questions like "why arent you circumcised, why do you eat pork, why are you wearing blended fabrics, etc.".

    In general, people who are circumcised for religious reasons tend not to eat pork.

    However, the 'blended fabric' question is something of a conundrum.


  • #80
    Seaneh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,300 ✭✭✭✭Seaneh


    9959 wrote: »
    In general, people who are circumcised for religious reasons tend not to eat pork.

    However, the 'blended fabric' question is something of a conundrum.

    what?


  • #81
    Sofaspud
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,626 ✭✭✭Sofaspud


    MisterEpicurus wrote: »
    I'm amazed at the utter irrelevance of this point.

    Just say religious people killed 50 million through the ages and atheist folks were responsible for killing 100 million folks, then does this affect the question of whether or not god exists? I think self-evidently not.

    In other words, does the social impact of a belief system act as verification of that belief system? So I always cringe when I hear atheists and religious folk debate death tolls and 'who had the best murderers' in debates about the existence of god, because this point is completely neutral on that answer. Even if atheism did lead to more mass atrocities, it doesn't make atheism false.

    It has nothing to do with whether or not belief in god / atheism is true or false. It's simply offered as an example of how religion can be a bad thing, as it gives people a justification for doing evil things.
    While there may have been evil atheists, their actions weren't done in the name of atheism. But many have been killed in the name of god, or as punishment for biblical sins, or because people follow the wrong god / teachings etc.
    It has nothing to do with "Religious people killed more, therefore there is no god!"


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  • #82
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    God told Abraham to kill his son. God smiting any number of people. A man who offers his daughters to be raped to save some angels. In or out of context, the book is full of such wickedness. Of course you can choose to ignore these parts but it makes you a moral retard

    I've answered all of these points on boards.ie before.

    1) Abraham and Isaac:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66361753&postcount=8
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77218942&postcount=110

    2) Lot at Sodom (notice God never condones Lot's actions, and also note the Bible contains numerous accounts of people doing evil in order to show us an example of what not to do - In Genesis 47 we see the same thing in respect to Judah and prostitution):
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61241049&postcount=130

    This was also discussed on the Christianity forum here:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80731707

    I searched my posts for Abraham and Isaac and I've dealt with it at least 20 times on boards.ie.

    What is frustrating when trying to discuss this subject with atheists is that most of the time they aren't actually interested in getting an explanation. Rather they are looking for reasons to justify their position irrespective of how well founded they are in Scripture.


  • #83
    Seaneh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,300 ✭✭✭✭Seaneh


    Sofaspud wrote: »
    It's simply offered as an example of how religion can be a bad thing, as it gives people a justification for doing evil things

    Might be true of some religions, but Christianity certainly doesn't.

    People have claimed it, but it doesn't.


  • #84
    9959
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭9959


    Seaneh wrote: »
    what?

    From 'CrochetN'Crafts'

    An example would be a cotton and polyester blend. Cotton is comfortable to wear, yet it wrinkles easily. Polyester, on the other hand, does not wrinkle. Therefore, when the two are combined, it results in a comfortable, yet wrinkle- resistant fabric. Perfect for your golf swing or indeed a 'swinger's party'!

    The last sentence is mine, but I hope the rest is of some value.


  • #85
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    It can hardly be a "religion delusion" if I'm not religious. I'm just tripping over religious and anti-religious whack-jobs each time I visit AH in a ratio of 1:99, and only a supporter of these threads being in AH would say that I was deluded.

    If you don't believe that there's a surplus of these threads in AH when there is, then I'd question your beliefs in general.:P

    Ok. Link me to 3 or 4 current threads from this glut of threads on religion.
    I'll spot you one thread on politics, food, Telly, Movies, sex, current affairs for every one of yours.


  • #86
    Seaneh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,300 ✭✭✭✭Seaneh


    9959 wrote: »
    From 'CrochetN'Crafts'

    An example would be a cotton and polyester blend. Cotton is comfortable to wear, yet it wrinkles easily. Polyester, on the other hand, does not wrinkle. Therefore, when the two are combined, it results in a comfortable, yet wrinkle- resistant fabric. Perfect for your golf swing or indeed a 'swinger's party'!

    The last sentence is mine, but I hope the rest is of some value.

    again, what?

    What does that have to do with the post you quoted originally?


  • #87
    take everything
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,995 ✭✭✭take everything


    Derp religion derp athiesm.
    Hitchens derp Dawkins.

    Derp?
    Yes, it's misspelt deliberately


  • #88
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    God told Abraham to kill his son. God smiting any number of people. A man who offers his daughters to be raped to save some angels. In or out of context, the book is full of such wickedness. Of course you can choose to ignore these parts but it makes you a moral retard

    Blah blah context blah metaphor blah blah blah


  • #89
    KingMonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 104 ✭✭KingMonkey


    did u hear about the dyslexic athiest?

    he refused to believe the existence of dog


  • #90
    Funglegunk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭Funglegunk


    Merry Christmas everyone.


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  • #91
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    philologos wrote: »
    Yes I've read it. I'm familiar enough with it. I find that the people who make these claims have never read all 39 books of the Old Testament and take a heck of a lot of it out of it's original context. Moreover most don't even understand how Christians read the OT in consideration of what Jesus did for humanity.

    Ah context, the getout clause for all manner of nonsensical guff in the "good book".


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