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Psychiatry’s New Rules Threaten to Turn Grieving Into a Sickness

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Comments

  • #32
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    LivelineDipso wrote: »
    In Europe it is used as a general guide. In the USA it is like a sacred text. The scary thing is that the panel behind it are mostly top level shrinks and big pharma reps who invent these 'disorders' during closed sessions.

    The fact that the panel meets in secret and sign a non-discloure form should set off alarm bells. Basically greedy oppertunists inventing new revenue streams.





    Well, it has to be said that a key driver of the DSM and its various diagnostic categories is reimbursement by health insurers. Without such interlock the whole American 'health care' system would founder.

    That is not to say, of course, that real mental disorders don't exist.


  • #33
    LivelineDipso
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭LivelineDipso


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Pharaceuticals can be wonderful.

    in moderation and only when someone is unwell.


  • #34
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    Once there used to bad kids who were bad little f@ckers. Now they get diagnosed with ADHD and get drugged up.
    Gillian and I had lunch one day, and I said, "How did you get to be a dancer?" She told me that when she was at school, she was really hopeless. She couldn't concentrate; she was always fidgeting. The school wrote to her parents and said, "We think Gillian has a learning disorder."

    So Gillian's mother took her to see this specialist. She sat on her hands for 20 minutes while her mother talked to this man about all the problems Gillian was having at school: She was disturbing people, and her homework was always late, and so on. In the end, the doctor sat next to Gillian and said, "Gillian, I've listened to all these things that your mother's told me. I need now to speak to her privately. Wait here -- we'll be back. We won't be very long."

    As they went out of the room, he turned on the radio sitting on his desk. When they got out of the room, he said to her mother, "Just stand and watch her." The minute they left, she was on her feet, moving to the music. They watched for a few minutes, and he turned to her mother and said, "You know, Mrs. Lynne, Gillian isn't sick. She's a dancer. Take her to a dance school."

    She eventually auditioned for the Royal Ballet School and had a wonderful career at the Royal Ballet and became a soloist. She later moved on, founded her own company, and met Andrew Lloyd Webber. She's been responsible for some of the most successful musical theater productions in history, she's given pleasure to millions, and she's probably a multimillionaire. Somebody else might have put her on medication and told her to calm down.


    Sir Ken Robinson (educationalist).
    .


  • #35
    Teyla Emmagan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,638 ✭✭✭Teyla Emmagan


    Grieving is a normal, and healthy reaction to loss.

    If there is no one to grieve after you've died then your life may not have amounted to much. There are few things sadder than to have no one mourn your passing from this world.


  • #36
    BENDERS LINKS
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74 ✭✭BENDERS LINKS


    Sauve wrote: »
    Come back to us after you've gone through some real grief OP.
    lol

    :rolleyes::D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D


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  • #37
    mattjack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    LivelineDipso wrote: »
    In Europe it is used as a general guide. In the USA it is like a sacred text. The scary thing is that the panel behind it are mostly top level shrinks and big pharma reps who invent these 'disorders' during closed sessions.

    The fact that the panel meets in secret and sign a non-discloure form should set off alarm bells. Basically greedy oppertunists inventing new revenue streams.
    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Well, it has to be said that a key driver of the DSM and its various diagnostic categories is reimbursement by health insurers. Without such interlock the whole American 'health care' system would founder.

    That is not to say, of course, that real mental disorders don't exist.

    Food for thought, ya learn something everyday.


  • #38
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    Once there used to bad kids who were bad little f@ckers. Now they get diagnosed with ADHD and get drugged up.
    The condition wasn't recognised either though. Not saying there wouldn't be misdiagnoses or over medicated kids (there are) but it is a real condition, like Asperger's.
    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Pharaceuticals can be wonderful.
    Agreed. They've done nothing but good for me. Never in my experience has a doc just thrown meds at me like confetti either. Always the last resort.
    BENDERS LINKS wrote: »
    lol

    :rolleyes::D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
    Why can't you just write an answer to her?


  • #39
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    LivelineDipso wrote: »
    in moderation and only when someone is unwell.
    This. Plus for people with mild to medium cases of depression placebo works just as well as SSRI's. The more extreme the illness the better they work. Interestingly because it seems placebo stops working in such people.
    Iwannahurl wrote:
    Well, it has to be said that a key driver of the DSM and its various diagnostic categories is reimbursement by health insurers. Without such interlock the whole American 'health care' system would founder.
    Indeed. It could be argued that when insurance companies get involved in healthcare said healthcare costs go up and practices change and more expensive therapies and procedures are likely to be tried. US doctors when compared to Canadian docs are far more likely to sign off on expensive procedures even if efficacy is vague/cheaper may work better. Of course there's huge money to be made so in the US and elsewhere the insurance lobby really pushes against social/public healthcare. They stand to lose billions if it ever gets in. Hell you see that with stuff like car insurance claims. Lots of massaging all over the place by dealers/mechanics/repairers. Theres defo a diff between the "oh it's going through the insurance" price and the "you just walked in off the street and it's coming outa your pocket" price.

    A really good example that happened very quickly was pet healthcare/insurance. 20 years ago if you used the words pet insurance people would have looked at you askance. Vet fees were significantly cheaper so it wasn't really an issue. Nowadays it's vital for many as costs have gone batshít crazy. Of course once you buy into that pet insurance dealio, you have to abide by their rules and practices, so for example your average mutt that lives to 12 years of age gets 3 to 5 vaccines per year of it's life, yet a human who will live to see 80 gets by on about 5 for life(unless going walkabout up the Zambezi), mostly in childhood. If you don't buy into this guff sorry no insurance for you.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #40
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Wibbs wrote: »
    A really good example that happened very quickly was pet healthcare/insurance. 20 years ago if you used the words pet insurance people would have looked at you askance. Vet fees were significantly cheaper so it wasn't really an issue. Nowadays it's vital for many as costs have gone batshít crazy. Of course once you buy into that pet insurance dealio, you have to abide by their rules and practices, so for example your average mutt that lives to 12 years of age gets 3 to 5 vaccines per year of it's life, yet a human who will live to see 80 gets by on about 5 for life(unless going walkabout up the Zambezi), mostly in childhood. If you don't buy into this guff sorry no insurance for you.



    I'm not sure whether it's really true that a mutt can eat you out of house and home, but it is an established fact that in the USA the main cause of personal bankruptcy is debt related to medical expenses. Sheer insanity on a continental scale.

    2009 CNN report: Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies


  • #41
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Madam_X wrote: »
    The condition wasn't recognised either though. Not saying there wouldn't be misdiagnoses or over medicated kids (there are) but it is a real condition, like Asperger's.
    Oh most certainly M. I've experienced a couple of kids with ADHD and there was clearly something going on way above background "they can be little bastids at that age". Ditto with Asbergers. Same goes for depression. Back in the day uncle Joe/Aunty Jane "suffered with their nerves" and ballsology like that. Suicides were horribly underreported. That kinda thing just wasnt talked about. Thank god that's changed for the most part, we've far more avenues for treatment and help than we had a generation ago, though we've some way to go.

    However, one could also argue that we're seeing a major increase in people coming forward/being diagnosed with mental illness and the type of mental illnesses involved*. More than past underreporting would cover. Could you ask has society changed so much that the stresses of today, the "future shock" has caused this, or could you ask has the inclusion of "normal" ranges of behavior been brought into the fold of "mental illness" caused this, or could you ask has a meme kicked off where people self diagnose and even want to feel included in the meme? I'd reckon some mix of the above myself.
    Iwannahurl wrote:
    I'm not sure whether it's really true that a mutt can eat you out of house and home,
    Depends how big the fcuker is IWH :D It can be quite costly. The insurance is "cheap enough"(depending on personal circumstance) at the moment but I guarantee it'll climb year by year as it has. A client of mine has had dogs all her life. Same breed too. She noted that an operation one of her previous doggies had was less than a quarter the cost of what her current dog required two years ago. 15 years in the diff.
    but it is an established fact that in the USA the main cause of personal bankruptcy is debt related to medical expenses. Sheer insanity on a continental scale.
    Very much so. They have one of the best health services in the world(in some areas, in others not so much), but only if you buy into it and have the means to pay to do so. A cousin of mine is a quack who has worked all over the world and the costs and procedural diffs in the US really surprised him. Throw a few ales into him and by god does he get animated on the subject. Plus the guy is somewhere to the right of Goebbels, no hippy is he, so if it freaks him out... :D


    *Chronic depression for one. Read 70's textbooks on unipolar depression and it was considered an acute illness for most, today it's considered a chronic and managed condition in many more cases and there's more bipolar going too. While I could well see how low level, even mid level depression could be missed back in the day, full on bipolar hardly hides it's light under a bushel. Along with schizophrenia it would be a condition your average John or Jane Citizen would describe as "mad" A word I hate I have to say but anyhoo...

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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  • #42
    girlonfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 337 ✭✭girlonfire


    Heard about this a while back and thought it was ludicrous. I still do!
    It all comes back to the pharmaceutical companies at the end of the day - just another money spinner.
    Grief is a painful, yet natural process. It is not a disorder.
    Is it any wonder there's such a huge number of people addicted to prescription drugs when they're inventing reasons to hand them out? :mad:


  • #43
    justaskin likeyakno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭justaskin likeyakno


    So they want to class grief as depression after two weeks...most people I know that have lost a family member or friend says it takes about two years to feel 'normal' again.

    The over prescribing of drugs for mild depression is far worse.

    I always wondered what would happen if all the people on mental health medication couldn't get it, what would happen, I mean this in a purely ponderous way.

    Having been told I had a personality disorder I wasn't really sure what to do, my husband was with me at the time..he said..you don't..you're just weird, bordering on eccentric. Some people are just arseholes, but they don't need a diagnosis.

    Grief is a unique process for each individual.

    My point being, you can be diagnosed, prescribed stuff, put into a category and labelled, but at the end of it all, it's up to you to decide how much faith and trust you have in such professionals and their theories.


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