Pat Finucane report finds 'shocking levels of collusion'

Ghandee · 12-12-2012 05:59PM #1

Once again the British state has been found to have colluded with loyalist paramilitaries in the north.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1212/breaking2.html

There was a significant doubt as to whether Belfast solicitor Pat Finucane would have been murdered by the UDA in February 1989 had it not been for the different strands of involvement by elements of the British state, a review into his death has found.

The 500-page report, by Sir Desmond da Silva QC, says that a series of positive actions by employees of the state "actively furthered and facilitated his murder" and there was a relentless effort to defeat the ends of justice in the aftermath of his killing.

"My review of the evidence relating to Patrick Finucane's case has left me in no doubt that agents of the State were involved in carrying out serious violations of human rights up to and including murder," it says.

Sir Desmond said he did not believe there was an "over-arching state conspiracy" to murder Mr Finucane but that "an extraordinary state of affairs was created" in which both the British army and the RUC special branch had prior notice of a series of planned UDA assassinations, yet nothing was done to prevent the attacks.

Britain once again has been shown to have Irish blood on its hands, and members of its security forces have once again been proven to have aided and abetted in murdering an innocent Irish man.

This man was killed in front of his wife and kids at his dinner table because he was a solicitor. Not a 'terrorist' a solicitor who happened to be a thorn in the side of the British justice system.

Surprised it hasn't been taken up on AH at this late stage.

sanbrafyffe · 12-12-2012 06:08PM

sure n.i was all conclusion then by british state forces/parimilatarys.just shows you how times and demograpics have changed in the once was so called orange state

all the british seem to be doing now is apologiseing

and yet they call for an ira apology,,,why shud they when this terrible news is being released

they way i see it as,,if there was no ira up there,,i dont think there mite be too many irish people living in n.i

seamus · 12-12-2012 06:08PM

Ghandee wrote: »

Surprised it hasn't been taken up on AH at this late stage.

Like the report on the bloody sunday shootings, the report isn't really a surprise to anyone. The dogs on the street knew that the authorities had been involved in Finucane's murder.

It's good that they've now acknowledged this and can action to bring anyone involved to justice.

Hopefully the Finucane family can find some solace in this report and the apologies of the British government and move on with their lives.

Ghandee · 12-12-2012 06:15PM

seamus wrote: »

Like the report on the bloody sunday shootings, the report isn't really a surprise to anyone. The dogs on the street knew that the authorities had been involved in Finucane's murder.

It's good that they've now acknowledged this and can action to bring anyone involved to justice.

Hopefully the Finucane family can find some solace in this report and the apologies of the British government and move on with their lives.

The Family have already condemned the report.

The widow of murdered Belfast solicitor Pat Finucane today dismissed the report into his death by Sir Desmond de Silva as "a sham... a whitewash... a confidence trick", telling a London press conference: "This report is not the truth.

" Renewing her call for a full public inquiry into her husband's 1989 death, Geraldine Finucane said that the British Government had suppressed the truth and attempted to throw all blame on dead individuals and disbanded organisations while exonerating ministers, serving officers and existing security agencies. Mrs Finucane said: "Yet another British government has engineered a suppression of the truth behind the murder of my husband, Pat Finucane.

"At every turn it is clear that this report has done exactly what was required - to give the benefit of the doubt to the state, its Cabinet and ministers, to the Army, to the intelligence services and to itself. "At every turn, dead witnesses have been blamed and defunct agencies found wanting. Serving personnel and active state departments appear to have been excused.

"The dirt has been swept under the carpet without any serious attempt to lift the lid on what really happened to Pat and so many others. "This report is a sham, this report is a whitewash, this report is a confidence trick dressed up as independent scrutiny and given invisible clothes of reliability. But most of all, most hurtful and insulting of all, this report is not the truth."

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/finucane-family-slam-whitewash-report-16249607.html

gurramok · 12-12-2012 06:18PM

seamus wrote: »

It's good that they've now acknowledged this and can action to bring anyone involved to justice.

Hopefully the Finucane family can find some solace in this report and the apologies of the British government and move on with their lives.

Still the age old problem, state agencies like MI5, RUC and British Army will face no fear of prosecution for their wrongdoing. That's the crux of it.

Micky Dolenz · 12-12-2012 06:20PM

Hope it doesn't add fuel to the fire of the current "protests".

gallag · 12-12-2012 06:23PM

Ghandee wrote: »

The Family have already condemned the report.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/finucane-family-slam-whitewash-report-16249607.html

If your sensationalist headline was true then why would the finucane family be unhappy with the report? The report actually dispelled state collusion but admitted some individual ruc men might have been involved, just like if one or two guards were involved in shady operations in the north it would not mean the Irish government were in colousion. Ps I delivered milk to Mrs finucane and found her to be a lovely lady, takes a special kind of scum bag to murder a man infrount of his wife and kids.

GRMA · 12-12-2012 06:26PM

The Brits agreed to a public enquiry in the Weston Park agreement... word is worth nothing seen as theyve pissed all over that agreement

thebigbiffo · 12-12-2012 06:26PM

I'm just going to throw this out there - but by this reports standards, there was a fair amount of 'blood on the hands' of irish officials as well.

Was a 2 way street that ugly f'ucking 'war' for the most part.

ElChe32 · 12-12-2012 06:30PM

No one will be held accountable once again...how can Cameron say there was no state collusion.. I do recall Douglas Hogg calling for "something to be done with the pesky IRA sympathizer laywers". Enda Kenny has just called for a public inquiry.. http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/taoiseach-in-fresh-call-for-public-inquiry-into-finucane-murder-577622.html

Zebra3 · 12-12-2012 06:59PM

Meanwhile down here leading members of the RC church who facilitated child rape walk the streets free from any fear of prosecution.

Politicans down through the generations are still revered even though under their rule kids were handed over to sadistic groups fronting as religious institutions.

Even though the dogs on the street still knew what was going on.

Establishments doing what they do best.

Even today they still look after their own (now it's the banks...).

Dougal McGuire · 12-12-2012 07:06PM

scumbags

NinjaK · 12-12-2012 07:07PM

Not surprising, they invade and kill hundreds of thousands of people whenever they like, killing one person is nothing to them.

Nodin · 12-12-2012 07:38PM

gallag wrote: »

If your sensationalist headline was true then why would the finucane family be unhappy with the report? The report actually dispelled state collusion but admitted some individual ruc men might have been involved, just like if one or two guards were involved in shady operations in the north it would not mean the Irish government were in colousion.............

Bit more to it than that.

The De Silva report concluded that British army agent handlers "deliberately" helped loyalist gunmen select their targets in Northern Ireland in the 1980s.
But ministers may have been unaware that Finucane was being lined up for assassination, De Silva said.
The legal supervision of agents in paramilitary gangs was nonetheless woefully inadequate and the high-level ignorance was possibly intentional, his report said.

The prime minister admitted that the report made for "extremely difficult reading" in regard to Sir Desmond de Silva's findings, such as the revelation that 80% of the Ulster Defence Association's intelligence information came from official state sources

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/dec/12/pat-finucane-report-david-cameron-apologises

dd972 · 12-12-2012 08:13PM

wonder when the truth will out about who were pulling the strings behind Johnny Adair,Sam McCrory & C Company

Border-Rat · 12-12-2012 08:19PM

Surprised it hasn't been taken up on AH at this late stage.

Needs more Gerry McCabe.

Madam_X · 12-12-2012 08:26PM

thebigbiffo wrote: »

I'm just going to throw this out there - but by this reports standards, there was a fair amount of 'blood on the hands' of irish officials as well.

Was a 2 way street that ugly f'ucking 'war' for the most part.

Ah good old whataboutery. The Finucane case is the subject of this thread and nobody has said there wasn't malpractice by Irish officials.

Luca Brasi · 12-12-2012 08:34PM

Madam_X wrote: »

Ah good old whataboutery. The Finucane case is the subject of this thread and nobody has said there wasn't malpractice by Irish officials.

Nearly time to wheel out Jean McConville and used her for a bit of arguement

gurramok · 12-12-2012 09:35PM

Took what was it 23 years for this admittance of guilt to emerge. It took 39 years for the Bloody Sunday truth to emerge, a gain of 16 years is progress!

Madam_X · 12-12-2012 09:40PM

Luca Brasi wrote: »

Nearly time to wheel out Jean McConville and used her for a bit of arguement

And if this thread were about that particular despicable atrocity, I'd find someone barging in with "What about the other side?" equally distasteful. I don't get why some do that; it serves absolutely no purpose.

SEPT 23 1989 · 12-12-2012 10:02PM

Of course there was collusion they were fighting under the same flag

sanbrafyffe · 12-12-2012 10:05PM

85% of loyalist intellengence was from the state authorithies,,terrible

Ghandee · 12-12-2012 10:52PM

Exactly why no one in the nationalist community ever felt comfortable in providing members of the 'security forces' with their details in the north for years.

That same UDR soldier could very easily have been sharing a pint with the local commander of the UVF in his local loyalist bar post shift.

A Dub in Glasgo · 12-12-2012 11:40PM

Nationalist community allege collusion between British security forces and Loyalist groups .... check
Nationalist community called IRA lovers by those in the media who never wanted to believe the truth.... check
No one held to account for the actions of the British state.... check
Whataboutry from those who do not want to believe the truth.... check

Seaneh · 13-12-2012 02:57AM

Zebra3 wrote: »

Meanwhile down here leading members of the RC church who facilitated child rape walk the streets free from any fear of prosecution.

Politicans down through the generations are still revered even though under their rule kids were handed over to sadistic groups fronting as religious institutions.

Even though the dogs on the street still knew what was going on.

Establishments doing what they do best.

Even today they still look after their own (now it's the banks...).

Jesus H Christ, what does your little rant have to do with anything mentioned in this thread? Seriously, could you not find another thread, preferably in after hours, to shoehorn your nonsense into?

cournioni · 13-12-2012 11:31AM

I wonder if David Cameron ever put an argument about carers allowance to Enda Kenny, would Kenny respond by shouting at Cameron to tell the truth about all of the bad stuff that happened in the North. Just a thought.

Mr Benevolent · 13-12-2012 11:57AM

Meh, no point in continuing to drag it up. You'd have to have been blind not to know it was happening, but why whine about it now?

Seaneh · 13-12-2012 12:22PM

Confab wrote: »

Meh, no point in continuing to drag it up. You'd have to have been blind not to know it was happening, but why whine about it now?

Because the families of the over 800 civilian nationalists murdered by loyalist paramilitaries (who got something like 80% of their intelligence from british agencies) would like to see the men responsible for their deaths brought to justice and the intelligence agencies who facilitated those murders properly investigated with anybody found to have worked with said loyalist paramilitaries also being brought to justice too?

gallag · 13-12-2012 12:34PM

Seaneh wrote: »

Because the families of the over 800 civilian nationalists murdered by loyalist paramilitaries (who got something like 80% of their intelligence from british agencies) would like to see the men responsible for their deaths brought to justice and the intelligence agencies who facilitated those murders properly investigated with anybody found to have worked with said loyalist paramilitaries also being brought to justice too?

The IRA killed more people than all the loyalists, security forces and other republicans put together, where are their inquires? What about Irish collusion? For ****s sake pull your self into the present, the sooner we all put this **** behind us and teach our children to foster respect and care for each other the better, do you even live up here? If not try to realise that we are enjoying the peace, no more days of over twenty bombs in one city.

Seaneh · 13-12-2012 12:50PM

gallag wrote: »

The IRA killed more people than all the loyalists, security forces and other republicans put together, where are their inquires? What about Irish collusion? For ****s sake pull your self into the present, the sooner we all put this **** behind us and teach our children to foster respect and care for each other the better, do you even live up here? If not try to realise that we are enjoying the peace, no more days of over twenty bombs in one city.

What's that? Oh, yeah, more whataboutery...

Last time I checked the IRA was an illegal organisation which no longer exists and is no longer tied to any political organisation, of which members were routinely locked up for their crimes or even just their membership of the organisation. So really, you're whataboutery is total nonsense.

The British government still exists, the british intelligence agencies still exist, the people guilty of the 818 nationalist civilian deaths within the british government and intelligence agencies are still not being punished.
Those are the simple facts and they are disgusting.

gurramok · 13-12-2012 12:55PM

gallag wrote: »

The IRA killed more people than all the loyalists, security forces and other republicans put together, where are their inquires? What about Irish collusion?

You just legitimised the IRA by giving them moral authority as representative of the Irish people, enjoy doing that?:mad:

To remind you, the RUC\MI5\British Army\British Govt are the legal internationally recognised legitimate agencies as representative of the British people, they are not supposed to be engaged in killing people.

Pat Finucane report finds 'shocking levels of collusion'

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