Alan Shatter condemns "bullyboy" anti-abortion posters, See Mod warning post #25

Death and Taxes · 13-12-2012 08:27AM #1

I'm no fan of Alan Shatter but this anti choice gang are disgusting!
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/shatter-condemns-bullyboy-posters-in-antiabortion-row-3324970.html

Posters containing bloodied photographs and the slogan "Every Child Matters Except to Alan Shatter" – with the words "Stop Abortion" underneath – were placed adjacent to a creche as well as the upmarket Wesley College School.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1213/1224327804841.html

The posters were customised versions of Fine Gael’s children’s referendum campaign posters, which carried the slogan “Every child matters”.

The original image of a boy holding a teddy bear was covered over with a graphic image of a gloved hand holding what appear to be the legs of a bloodied foetus.

Death and Taxes · 13-12-2012 08:56AM

Dean09 wrote: »

I'm not sticking up for them by any means but, "Anti woman"??
Where'd you get that from??

Last time I checked only women could get pregnant, anti choice in that regard is anti woman, these cnuts are no better than the taliban in how they view women, imo:mad:

El Guapo! · 13-12-2012 09:01AM

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Last time I checked only women could get pregnant, anti choice in that regard is anti woman, these cnuts are no better than the taliban in how they view women, imo:mad:

Bit of a leap there I think.
Like I said, I'm not supporting them at all but I just hate the way people jump in with the sensational sexism claims.
By your logic, only men can wear condoms, the Catholic Church is against condoms, therefore the Catholic Church is anti-men.
Makes no sense at all and it only belittles your argument in my opinion.

EDIT; And just to clarify my position.....I think the people in the story with the placards are imbeciles.

Ghandee · 13-12-2012 09:07AM

Dean09 wrote: »

Bit of a leap there I think.
Like I said, I'm not supporting them at all but I just hate the way people jump in with the sensational sexism claims.
By your logic, only men can wear condoms, the Catholic Church is against condoms, therefore the Catholic Church is anti-men.
Makes no sense at all and it only belittles your argument in my opinion.

EDIT; And just to clarify my position.....I think the people in the story with the placards are imbeciles.

But the catholic church aren't just anti-condom, they're anti-contraceptive.

This takes in condoms, pills, diaphragms, coils, etc etc. (anti-recreational riding?)

Edit, and also just to clarify, I think the people holding the placards are just as big a bunch of imbeciles as half of the fùckwits we have in the dail supposedly 'running the country' (into the gutter)

tolosenc · 13-12-2012 09:10AM

Dean09 wrote: »

Bit of a leap there I think.
Like I said, I'm not supporting them at all but I just hate the way people jump in with the sensational sexism claims.
By your logic, only men can wear condoms, the Catholic Church is against condoms, therefore the Catholic Church is anti-men.
Makes no sense at all and it only belittles your argument in my opinion.

EDIT; And just to clarify my position.....I think the people in the story with the placards are imbeciles.

It's got very little to do with abortion or choice, and absolutely everything to do with controlling women, and shaming those hussies who go out and have sex. Imagine! People riding for a purpose other than procreation. It'll never catch on.

El Guapo! · 13-12-2012 09:12AM

Ghandee wrote: »

But the catholic church aren't just anti-condom, they're anti-contraceptive.

This takes in condoms, pills, diaphragms, coils, etc etc.

True. That wasn't the best example, but you get my point. Making the leap that anti abortion means you're anti women is ridiculous. It's just trying to tar the pro life camp with the sexism brush. It's trying to label them all sexists so as to discredit their argument.
Now I wouldn't be a big fan of the pro life people myself but I don't think it's right to label them "anti women".

El Guapo! · 13-12-2012 09:15AM

tolosenc wrote: »

........and absolutely everything to do with controlling women....

Oh come on!
Do you honestly believe that?!
Stop playing the sexism card and making out that the whole world is against women. It's like the way some extreme feminists go out looking to be insulted so they can scream "Sexist!" in someone's face.

tin79 · 13-12-2012 09:30AM

Antiabor sounds like a lush tropical island somewhere in the Indian ocean.

Where is this Antiabor place anyway?

GalwayGuy2 · 13-12-2012 09:34AM

were placed adjacent to a creche

Fu-kin animals:mad:

Leftist · 13-12-2012 09:52AM

Dean09 wrote: »

It's like the way some extreme feminists go out looking to be insulted so they can scream "Sexist!" in someone's face.

I've never heard of anyone doing that outside of a viz cartoon.

Typical boards. A thread title that's a link to a webpage and arguments from both sides based in hysterical country parish logic.

What these clowns did was a disgrace.

telekon · 13-12-2012 10:14AM

Jesus Christ, I hate that term "anti-abortion".

Who the hell is "pro-abortion"?!

philologos · 13-12-2012 10:15AM

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Last time I checked only women could get pregnant, anti choice in that regard is anti woman, these cnuts are no better than the taliban in how they view women, imo:mad:

Groan. Not all pro-lifers are represented by these posters. Not all women are pro-choice. Being pro-life is not anti-woman at all. Considering that abortion-by-choice is used to facilitate gendercide you should be as concerned as I am actually.

upstairs for coffee · 13-12-2012 10:16AM

Not surprising though is it? If Pro-Choice tried utilising propaganda like that, there would be war.

Also read over the weekend that the Anti-Choice campaign has received more funding from American firms, surely the word of God would be enough to convince people not to support Pro-Choice :rolleyes:

Ok, I'm being pedantic but these Anti-Choice people have the characteristics of militants. Even worse than the Unionists up North.

upstairs for coffee · 13-12-2012 10:21AM

philologos wrote: »

Considering that abortion-by-choice is used to facilitate gendercide you should be as concerned as I am actually.

Do you have any proof to back this statement up?

Pompey Magnus · 13-12-2012 10:25AM

upstairs for coffee wrote: »

Do you have any proof to back this statement up?

Read up on Sex selective abortion.

philologos · 13-12-2012 10:28AM

upstairs for coffee wrote: »

Do you have any proof to back this statement up?

There's a few articles on it, one here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9103831/In-the-third-world-unwanted-baby-girls-disappear.-Its-called-gendercide.-And-its-happening-in-this-country-too.html

If you need more just type 'gendercide' or 'gender-selective abortion'.

For all this talk of pro-women many of those aborted by gendercide or not are female.

Leftist · 13-12-2012 10:30AM

philipogogs, please stay on the topic of the thread, this isn't about the right to abortion or your religious teachings.

lukesmom · 13-12-2012 10:33AM

Poster turned my stomach. Why do they use such graphic images. Animals

Shankly88 · 13-12-2012 10:35AM

All shatter seems to do is condemn things instead of taking any action he is pure useless. I'm not for abortion outside of health reasons but them posters are a disgrace and not fair especially to women who may be suffering depression from having a previous abortion.

upstairs for coffee · 13-12-2012 10:36AM

philologos wrote: »

There's a few articles on it, one here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9103831/In-the-third-world-unwanted-baby-girls-disappear.-Its-called-gendercide.-And-its-happening-in-this-country-too.html

If you need more just type 'gendercide' or 'gender-selective abortion'.

For all this talk of pro-women many of those aborted by gendercide or not are female.

I don't see how you can claim gendercide from one article that sites a few examples. I'd also love to know what religion etc of the couples who chose to terminate based on gender were.

And even still, it is their choice. Even though I do not agree with their choice on this occasion who am I to govern that their choice is wrong?

philologos · 13-12-2012 10:49AM

Leftist wrote: »

philipogogs, please stay on the topic of the thread, this isn't about the right to abortion or your religious teachings.

The OP has lumped all pro-lifers into one category. I think that's worthy of discussion. Oh and this is about the right to abort.

ciaran12 · 13-12-2012 10:51AM

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Last time I checked only women could get pregnant, anti choice in that regard is anti woman, these cnuts are no better than the taliban in how they view women, imo:mad:

I'm a pro-life atheist. Also, I do quite a lot of charity work, I'll even be volunteering this evening, and expect to be doing quite a lot more over christmas.

The reason I'm pro-life, is simply that I happen to believe life begins at conception. After that, I can't really choose my stance on anything, if I believe the unborn baby is alive, then the Universal Declaration of Human Rights kinda decides my position for me.

Just as if you decide that life doesn't begin until consciousness, then the UDHR (and basic empathy for others) would dictate that you fight for Woman's rights.

Am I a 'cnut' and 'no better than the taliban'?

It really annoys me how people on BOTH sides of this argument fail to even TRY and see things from the other perspective

It's clear that you've made a decision regarding whether or not the foetus is a human, and have taken a position accordingly. It's even very admirable that you are also fighting for human rights in accordance with your views. But ffs, at least try and accept that not EVERYBODY on the other side of the argument is 'anti-woman'

I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect that people would differ over when life begins. I do hope that we can eventually reach consensus, but I wouldn't be too surprised if that never happened.

The point is, the only question that matters is whether or not the foetus has a right to life. It's easy to see how people can have varying views on that, and our existing principles mean that once that decision is made, your stance on abortion is decided. So I won't call you a bad person for being pro-choice. I'll call you a good person for standing up for human rights. I'll also say that in my view, you're fighting for the wrong side, and I hope you change your mind.

philologos · 13-12-2012 10:53AM

upstairs for coffee wrote: »

I don't see how you can claim gendercide from one article that sites a few examples. I'd also love to know what religion etc of the couples who chose to terminate based on gender were.

And even still, it is their choice. Even though I do not agree with their choice on this occasion who am I to govern that their choice is wrong?

There's many more. I linked to one as an example.
Please read my posts first.

Pro-choice means the right to choose for any reason even if they want a boy rather than a girl.

The more sensible approach is to legislate on need such as serious risk to life or health of the mother.

I think the State should govern a serious life or death issue. Who are you to say that life should be destroyed to a child on the basis of a mere choice?

K-9 · 13-12-2012 10:56AM

Stick to the thread topic please which means this isn't a general debate on abortion, it's about graphic posters outsides schools etc.

BidillyBo · 13-12-2012 11:11AM

Can people not just mind their own business if you don't like abortion fantastic don't have one.If everyone would just stop worrying about what other people were doing the whole time allot of things would be allot easier

K-9 · 13-12-2012 11:15AM

Just to repeat that this isn't an abortion debate thread, it's about the posters outside schools, don't waste your time making points about anti/pro women/choice.

Death and Taxes · 13-12-2012 11:17AM

It takes a particularly sick or evil mind to place posters like that outside schools, creches, or indeed any public place.
No thought was given to the effect on children, to the effect on pregnant women, or the effect on those who have suffered miscarraige/stillbirth.

philologos · 13-12-2012 11:18AM

In one sense I think the poster shouldn't have been displayed, it is horrific. But it is only horrific for much the same reason as abortion-by-choice is horrific. It should never be witnessed or be a reality in society.

Its interesting to notice from a pro-choice perspective that discussing or displaying the procedure seems to be wrong. How can one know what to choose if they aren't informed about what will happen to them and to the unborn child?

I've copied this post I case it vanishes again.

ciaran12 · 13-12-2012 11:19AM

Putting up posters like that near schools and creches is absolutely insane and I'd agree with those here who've called for legal action against whoever's responsible.

It's important though to recognise that not all pro-life advocates are a part of that sort of thing

suicide_circus · 13-12-2012 11:19AM

upstairs for coffee wrote: »

Not surprising though is it? If Pro-Choice tried utilising propaganda like that, there would be war.

Yes...Pro-Choice would never try to exploit a tragedy...................

13-12-2012 11:22AM

philologos wrote: »

In one sense I think the poster shouldn't have been displayed, it is horrific. But it is only horrific for much the same reason as abortion-by-choice is horrific. It should never be witnessed or be a reality in society.

Its interesting to notice from a pro-choice perspective that discussing or displaying the procedure seems to be wrong. How can one know what to choose if they aren't informed about what will happen to them and to the unborn child?

I've copied this post I case it vanishes again.

Some anti choice propaganda is taken from miscarriages or the fake/doctored images that guy released in the 80s. I think it was the 80s.

Secondly, we don't wave around pictures of open heart surgery on the streets because it's common fcuking decency. We also don't wave around pictures of the up close parts of childbirth because we don't need that shoved in our faces either. "That looks gross so it must be wrong" is not logic.
If people want to learn what happens then they can go find out from themselves without misleading sensationalistic nonsense.

And NOT in front of children

Alan Shatter condemns "bullyboy" anti-abortion posters, See Mod warning post #25

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