Loyalist mobs attacking Alliance Party offices and homes.

Yes, it is a UK city, but is it fair that half the population of northern ireland are Irish citizens and the tricolour is not flown above the city hall?

Not that I really care, but last night there was a "protest" in my town in which a a pub was vandalised, now I feel it's not really about a flag any more, just causing disturbances towards certain members of the community.

philologos wrote: »

Whether or not a flag is put up is really a non-issue as far as I can tell.

As far as you can tell from what? The riots.

I don't believe it is a "Nationalist conspiracy", I do think it is a non-issue as to whether the Union Jack flies over City Hall in Belfast. I think it was opportunistic politics by SF and SDLP for sure.

Perhaps you could explain how it was an opportunistic move by SDLP and SF instead of making a vague accusation. By simply putting forward a proposal in local Government none of these Parties warrant the label of Political "opportunists".

I don't agree that they are "as guilty". In fact the only people I've claimed to as being "as guilty" are dissident republicans.

Claiming that this whole shitstorm happened to originate from a petty and opportunistic move by SF and SDLP to frustrate Unionists would imply that these two Parties are somehow guilty by association. I'm sure you will argue otherwise, but I can't mistake your original sentiment.

It must be said that neither SF or the SDLP, nor the Alliance Party, are in any way responsible for the actions of Loyalist mobs over these last few days. There simply has to be a sense of accountability here.

philologos wrote: »

Why is it such a big deal that the Union Jack come down from City Hall?

I'm not advocating the violence, I think it is plainly wrong, and in a way this has shown there still to be far more loyalist bigotry than perhaps was previously thought, but I honestly don't get the rationale for taking the flag down. Why does it matter? Why care?

So trying to have a shared future don't you think it is a fair compromise to have the capital city council to follow the rest of the UK and fly the flag on certain days and be less intimidating to 45% of the population

philologos wrote: »

The question is why do they want to? - I'd be interested in seeing a comparison between UK cities on this or what the source is for that though?

I suspect to conform to other UK cities isn't the full reason for SF in particular, and probably the SDLP in this.

How many times have you been told

SF and SDLP wanted the flag down altogether so they did not want to be like other UK cities.

The Alliance party then came with the compromise of following Storment and flying the flag on certain days which is what was voted in by the council

philologos wrote: »

I suspect that's not the full reason. I'd be interested to see something as to what they do in other UK cities.

I think the Alliance party are reasonable for sure, but I do think it was opportunism on the part of SF and SDLP especially considering their original proposal.

Taken from Wiki

Until July 2007, the Union Flag was only flown on Government buildings on a limited number of special days each year. The choice of days was managed by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS).[3] Government buildings are those used by civil servants, the Crown, or the armed forces. They were not applicable to private citizens, corporations, or local authorities.[3]
On 3 July 2007, the Justice Secretary Jack Straw laid a green paper before Parliament entitled The Governance of Britain.[4] Alongside a range of proposed changes to the constitutional arrangements of the UK was a specific announcement that there would be consultation on whether the rules on flag-flying on Government buildings should be relaxed.

Two days later, Prime Minister Gordon Brown announced that with immediate effect the Union Flag would fly from the flag pole above the front entrance of 10 Downing Street on every day of the year. The intention was to increase feelings of 'Britishness'. Other Government departments were asked to follow this lead, and all Government buildings in Whitehall did so.[9][10][11][12][13][14][15]

Scotland Yard however stated that they would follow the previous rules until they are formally abolished by DCMS.[16]

James Purnell, Culture Secretary from June 2007 to January 2008 in Brown's administration, subsequently concurred with the abolition of the restrictions – pending consultation on longer term arrangements.

Until July 2007, the Union Flag was only flown on days marking the birthdays of members of the Royal Family, the wedding anniversary of the Monarch, Commonwealth Day, Accession Day, Coronation Day, The Queen's official birthday, Remembrance Sunday and on the days of the State Opening and prorogation of Parliament. The flag days when the Union Flag should be flown from government buildings all over the UK were

20 January: birthday of The Countess of Wessex
6 February: anniversary of The Queen's accession in 1952
19 February: birthday of The Duke of York
Second Sunday in March: Commonwealth Day
10 March: birthday of The Earl of Wessex
21 April: The Queen's birthday
9 May: Europe Day
2 June: anniversary of The Queen's 1953 coronation
10 June: birthday of Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh
A Saturday in June: The Queen's Official Birthday
17 July: birthday of The Duchess of Cornwall
15 August: birthday of The Princess Royal
Second Sunday in November: Remembrance Sunday
14 November: birthday of The Prince of Wales
20 November: anniversary of the wedding of The Queen and The Duke of Edinburgh

In addition, the flag should be flown in the following areas on the specified days:
Wales – 1 March: Saint David's Day
Northern Ireland – 17 March: Saint Patrick's Day
England – 23 April: Saint George's Day
Scotland – 30 November: Saint Andrew's Day
Greater London: The day of the opening or proroguing of Parliament

Some non central government bodies still continue to follow the flag days.
In Scotland, the Scottish Government has decreed that the Flag of Scotland ("the Saltire") will fly on all its buildings every day from 8 am until sunset, but there is no specific policy on flying the Union Flag and as such it is sometimes flown alongside the Saltire and sometimes omitted. An exception is made for "national days". On these days, the Saltire shall be lowered and replaced with the Union Flag. These are the same as the flag days noted above with the exception of:
3 September: Merchant Navy Day

Another difference is that on Saint Andrew's Day, the Union Flag can only be flown if the building has more than one flagpole – the Saltire will not be lowered to make way for the Union Flag if there is only one flagpole.[17]

Flag Days in Northern Ireland

In Northern Ireland, the Union Flag is flown from buildings of the Northern Ireland Office as decreed by Regulations published in 2000.[18] The Regulations were amended in 2002 to remove the requirement to fly the flag on the birthdays of Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother and Princess Margaret, Countess of Snowdon who both died that year.[19] The current flag days are now the same as the United Kingdom government days noted above with the exception of the Duchess of Cornwall's birthday, which was only added to the UK flag days after her wedding to the Prince of Wales in 2005, and has not yet been extended to Northern Ireland.

The Police Service of Northern Ireland is the only body in the United Kingdom that is not permitted to fly the Union Flag, and is only permitted to fly its service flag or the Royal Standard in the event of a visit by the Sovereign.[20]

Note: before you read this realize I messed up the entire thing due to lack of sleep and coffee. I apologize for any offense and later on in the posts I correct myself for 99% of what I said here.

I'm sorry but the north belongs to the British, its signed and sealed and its theirs, sure they wanna give it back NOW because they cant afford it but come on!
Just look at it this way, its British land no matter if some of us like it or not, I love Belfast, its a clean beautiful city and I try and visit it once or twice a year if possible. Yes it has its assorted past and its terrible but we handed it over, so let them run it if they want. If your an Northern Irelander then your living in Britannia! You have no choice in the matter and if they want to fly their flag then they are quiet entitled to.
I dont want to get into a big hoohaa with anyone or a political debate but we're talking land boundaries and they're pretty clear. It'd be like half of Dublin City moving to London and complaining they were flying the Union Jack there and then rioting. Its not right and for god sake, if we're ever going to get by all this crap we should put the petty differences aside. Whats done is done, I hate to say it but its true, rioting now wont change the past, it just makes us look worse. I'd like to see the North a happy peaceful place, as would most people, but like anywhere you have the people who take it to heart and have to riot to cause hassle when there is NO NEED.

No matter if 46% or 6% of the population considers themselves British or not its a moot point, they are living in an English owned country. Why do they have to keep poking at a wound that could have been closed years ago. By the way, that goes for both sides not just one of the other. In this day and age we have way more important things to worry about then a ****ing flag for god sake.

They should be ashamed of themselves for how they're acting, it will change nothing and they are destroying innocent peoples lives and homes for this crap! Trying to petrol bomb a police officer over a piece of cloth? Leave this **** in the past and move on its the only way we'll ever see peace, and thats all we want.

Other choices include, moving out of the North? Sure its your home, treat it that way instead of an occupied country, your not rebels, your living in and were born into a British country, you can be Irish but your passport says British because your ****ing British. (I assume thats what it says Ive never seen one to be honest). Its time to stop fighting, stop bickering and just get on with our lives. Am I the only one who sees this? Obviously not.


Note: I apologize for getting my facts arseways in this, my point remains the same but during my rant I mixed up what I was saying. I'm aware the flag is being taken down not flown and thats what its over. Most of what I said was a broad term about the North and its current state, but the way I wrote my comment was backways and I apologize.