Loyalist mobs attacking Alliance Party offices and homes.

Dodge · 11-12-2012 05:19PM

gallag wrote: »

After a few knuckle dragers get shot the petrol bombs will stop.

How did bloody Sunday work out again?

In most place, but particularly in NI, police shootings rarely calm things down

gallag · 11-12-2012 05:22PM

Dodge wrote: »

How did bloody Sunday work out again?

What's that got to do with it? I am suggesting that if someone throws a petrol bomb at a police officer then the police officer should be able to defend themself with equal force.

Chuck Stone · 11-12-2012 05:24PM

gallag wrote: »

After a few knuckle dragers get shot the petrol bombs will stop.

The last thing you want to do with these gob****es is actually feed into their persecution complex and siege mentality by giving them a couple of martyrs and wrecking any civilian cross-community police kudos the PSNI has gained.

Incredible.

Madam · 11-12-2012 05:24PM

gallag wrote: »

What's that got to do with it? I am suggesting that if someone throws a petrol bomb at a police officer then the police officer should be able to defend themself with equal force.

That would put us on the road to anarchy imo.

gallag · 11-12-2012 05:57PM

Then tell the police to stay home and we can save some money and they can avoide being burnt to death, what's the point in them being there, softly softly has not worked and the yobs act with impunity. It amazes me how Molotov cocktails have lost their malice over here, the people throwing them are trying to kill in the most gruesome way, if someone was throwing grenades people would I assume be ok with the police shooting them but not if they are only trying to burn them to death.

Fratton Fred · 11-12-2012 05:57PM

gallag wrote: »

That's the problem right there, how many country's in the world can you throw bombs at police trying to burn them to death and not be shot???

After a few knuckle dragers get shot the petrol bombs will stop.

err, probably most of Europe.

Certainly the two states on this island anyway.

Fratton Fred · 11-12-2012 05:58PM

karma_ wrote: »

Actually it was an Alliance party motion Fred.

Was it? I thought it was the Alliance party that got the compromise.

oh well, new day, same **** tbh.

Chuck Stone · 11-12-2012 06:10PM

gallag wrote: »

Then tell the police to stay home

You've missed a vast swathe of middle ground there that lies between the extremes of culling protesters/rioters and simply doing nothing.

softly softly has not worked and the yobs act with impunity. It amazes me how Molotov cocktails have lost their malice over here,

During the London riots when shops were being looted and burned out the London police bided their time and used intelligence to hoover up those who were involved afterwards. Maybe the PSNI will follow this example?

The PSNI going in with all guns blazing will only play into the hands of those orchestrating the rioting.

Mardy Bum · 11-12-2012 06:12PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What do you mean?

Giving loyalist their way because they start attacking people over an issue that was democratically decided is not the direction NI should be taking.

As I said before keep them in school till they are 21 and rid the ignorance from them.

Fratton Fred · 11-12-2012 06:14PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

You've missed a vast swathe of middle ground there that lies between the extremes of culling protesters/rioters and simply doing nothing.

During the London riots when shops were being looted and burned out the London police bided their time and used intelligence to hoover up those who were involved afterwards. Maybe the PSNI will follow this example?

The PSNI going in with all guns blazing will only play into the hands of those orchestrating the rioting.

everyone accused the Met of being overly cautious, until they realised the magistrate courts were working 24x7 to clear the backlog!

burning property and daubing walls with offensive slogans isn't worth risking someone's life over. The PSNI will make sure everyone is safe first and then worry about nicking people

gallag · 11-12-2012 06:19PM

I just can't comprehend how someone can walk up to a line of police and throw a bomb at them with the intention of murder and not be shot. If they had a gun or grenades they would be shot but not if they are only trying to burn them to death. Bizarre.

Chuck Stone · 11-12-2012 06:25PM

WTF is going on here? Me and Fratton Fred are agreeing on stuff.

:pac:

MadYaker · 11-12-2012 06:33PM

gallag wrote: »

I just can't comprehend how someone can walk up to a line of police and throw a bomb at them with the intention of murder and not be shot. If they had a gun or grenades they would be shot but not if they are only trying to burn them to death. Bizarre.

I seriously doubt the riot police had live ammunition, at least I sincerely hope they don't! Its Belfast not Damascus ffs!

Edit: Just saw your post at the top of this page, if a few "knuckle dragers" get shot things are going to get a whole lot worse. The last thing that needs to be done is to give these scumbags a real cause to rally about. Idiotic thing to say.

gallag · 11-12-2012 06:48PM

Of course they have live ammo, at what point would people be ok with the police using it? Petrol bombs? Grenades? Being shot at? I honestly think that if a cop has a clean shot on someone trying kill him by fire he should take it, I would imagine most of the world would agree with me, just not in this country.

MadYaker · 11-12-2012 06:51PM

gallag wrote: »

Of course they have live ammo, at what point would people be ok with the police using it? Petrol bombs? Grenades? Being shot at? I honestly think that if a cop has a clean shot on someone trying kill him by fire he should take it, I would imagine most of the world would agree with me, just not in this country.

Well you are entitled to your opinion. But most of the world would not agree with you. Shooting unarmed protestors creates a lot more problems than it solves and will only lead to more death. I don't suppose you remember Bloody Sunday? Because a repeat of that is basically what you are calling for.

ronjo · 11-12-2012 06:57PM

philologos wrote: »

.

There's nothing wrong with looking for a bit of objectivity even if seeking the middle ground is unpopular.

I thought the Alliance Party were trying to find middle ground but the Loyalists are having none of it..

gallag · 11-12-2012 07:02PM

MadYaker wrote: »

Well you are entitled to your opinion. But most of the world would not agree with you. Shooting unarmed protestors creates a lot more problems than it solves and will only lead to more death. I don't suppose you remember Bloody Sunday? Because a repeat of that is basically what you are calling for.

What are you talking about, of course unarmed people should not be shot, I am talking about armed people trying to kill.

Sound of Silence · 11-12-2012 07:20PM

gallag wrote: »

What are you talking about, of course unarmed people should not be shot, I am talking about armed people trying to kill.

It's clear that tensions are close to breaking point at the moment, so I would definitely encourage the Police to show a certain degree of restraint toward the protesters rioters.

Speak to any Police Officer North or South of the border and they will tell you how they do their absolute best to resolve potentially violent situations in a calm and restrained manner. Doing so otherwise just leads to inevitably greater conflicts, and in turn a greater level of danger to the local population.

The Police service in Northern Ireland (RUC, PSNI) should certainly know this best, having had well over forty years of prime experience to look back on, and not all of it good.

fasttalkerchat · 11-12-2012 07:47PM

Can't believe the cheek of the PSNI on the news, saying that they weren't there when the attack in Armagh happened. They had a road-block on an adjacent street and were following the mob. Their spokesman claimed that they arrived 18 minutes later.

Rodin · 11-12-2012 07:49PM

I've heard talk about deep divisions in Northern Ireland.

Until such day as riot police cease to be used to force a sectarian organisation marching, and tooting their brass through nationalists areas, giving them the old orange two fingered salute over events which happened in the late 17th century, then Northern Ireland unfree (of sectarian parades) shall never be at peace.

Oh, and it's a national holiday to boot. Ye couldn't make it up.

MadYaker · 11-12-2012 08:11PM

gallag wrote: »

What are you talking about, of course unarmed people should not be shot, I am talking about armed people trying to kill.

The rioters aren't armed, all they have are sticks and rocks and a few petrol bombs. Riot Police can't simply shoot every eejit who throws a petrol bomb. We don't live in a police state. There are courts that things like that have to go through.

If the rioters had guns and were firing on the police then fair enough, the police would have to use live ammunition. But until that happens the police won't and shouldn't shoot anybody!

philologos · 11-12-2012 08:24PM

ronjo wrote: »

I thought the Alliance Party were trying to find middle ground but the Loyalists are having none of it..

The Loyalists are worthy of clear condemnation. I've made that crystal.

SF and SDLP on the other hand were merely opportunists in this. Having the flag up isn't a huge deal. It's the UK. I agree it has exposed clear loyalist thuggery though.

joydivision · 11-12-2012 08:24PM

MadYaker wrote: »

The rioters aren't armed, all they have are sticks and rocks and a few petrol bombs. Riot Police can't simply shoot every eejit who throws a petrol bomb. We don't live in a police state. There are courts that things like that have to go through.

If the rioters had guns and were firing on the police then fair enough, the police would have to use live ammunition. But until that happens the police won't and shouldn't shoot anybody!

What if the police threw petrol bombs and rocks then ?

GRMA · 11-12-2012 08:31PM

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Can't believe the cheek of the PSNI on the news, saying that they weren't there when the attack in Armagh happened. They had a road-block on an adjacent street and were following the mob. Their spokesman claimed that they arrived 18 minutes later.

continuity ruc at work

Anita Blow · 11-12-2012 08:38PM

MadYaker wrote: »

The rioters aren't armed, all they have are sticks and rocks and a few petrol bombs

Ah yea few petrol bombs, be grand.

Sound of Silence · 11-12-2012 09:08PM

philologos wrote: »

The Loyalists are worthy of clear condemnation. I've made that crystal.

SF and SDLP on the other hand were merely opportunists in this. Having the flag up isn't a huge deal. It's the UK. I agree it has exposed clear loyalist thuggery though.

When has pushing forward a proposal in local government been considered opportunism. It's not as if SF and SDLP were cruelly capitalising on some bizarre and archaic injustice in the system merely to further their own ends.

You're not the first poster here to have punctuated their condemnation of extreme Loyalists with some sort of casual allusion to a "Nationalist Conspiracy" to frustrate the Unionist Community. It also seems to be a popular touchstone for many Unionist Politicians.

DUP Councillor, Christopher Stalford argued that "indeed, all those who supported this stripping away of British identity are just as guilty and foolish".

philologos · 11-12-2012 09:12PM

Sound of Silence wrote: »

When has pushing forward a proposal in local government been considered opportunism. It's not as if SF and SDLP were cruelly capitalising on some bizarre and archaic injustice in the system merely to further their own ends.

Whether or not a flag is put up is really a non-issue as far as I can tell.

Sound of Silence wrote: »

You're not the first poster here to have punctuated their condemnation of extreme Loyalists with some sort of casual allusion to a "Nationalist Conspiracy" to frustrate the Unionist Community. It also seems to be a popular touchstone for many Unionist Politicians.

Nonsense. I think it's all nonsense. Hardline loyalism and hardline nationalism. I think people should stop caring if they can that'd greatly improve things in Northern Ireland.

I don't believe it is a "Nationalist conspiracy", I do think it is a non-issue as to whether the Union Jack flies over City Hall in Belfast. I think it was opportunistic politics by SF and SDLP for sure.

Sound of Silence wrote: »

DUP Councillor, Christopher Stalford argued that "indeed, all those who supported this stripping away of British identity are just as guilty and foolish".

I don't agree that they are "as guilty". In fact the only people I've claimed to as being "as guilty" are dissident republicans.

Perhaps you should read my posts through before claiming X or Y about me.

fasttalkerchat · 11-12-2012 09:13PM

philologos wrote: »

The Loyalists are worthy of clear condemnation. I've made that crystal.

SF and SDLP on the other hand were merely opportunists in this. Having the flag up isn't a huge deal. It's the UK. I agree it has exposed clear loyalist thuggery though.

It had to come down at some time and the best time of year is as far away from the riot season as possible. No one expected that the protests would last more than a day or that they would attack their own people in their own areas!

11-12-2012 09:19PM

philologos wrote: »

Having the flag up isn't a huge deal. It's the UK.

And now it's only flown on certain days, just like the rest of the UK. SF and the SDLP seem to be making NI more like the rest of the UK than Loyalists want it to be.

philologos wrote: »

Whether or not a flag is put up is really a non-issue as far as I can tell.

Well...

philologos · 11-12-2012 09:20PM

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

It had to come down at some time and the best time of year is as far away from the riot season as possible. No one expected that the protests would last more than a day or that they would attack their own people in their own areas!

Why is it such a big deal that the Union Jack come down from City Hall?

I'm not advocating the violence, I think it is plainly wrong, and in a way this has shown there still to be far more loyalist bigotry than perhaps was previously thought, but I honestly don't get the rationale for taking the flag down. Why does it matter? Why care?

Loyalist mobs attacking Alliance Party offices and homes.

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