Loyalist mobs attacking Alliance Party offices and homes.

Fratton Fred · 11-12-2012 02:46PM

citytillidie wrote: »

Why a stunt it brings the city hall into line with most of the rest of the UK city halls with the flag only flying in certain days of the year

Somehow I doubt that is the reason the flag is being taken down.

Sinn Fein and the SDLP want NI to fall in line with the rest of the UK

gallag · 11-12-2012 02:47PM

citytillidie wrote: »

Ok then so it took the 5 days to use a water cannon

With Friday being the first serious night I would think it was the correct strategy, why did you say last night was the first night though?

philologos · 11-12-2012 02:50PM

citytillidie wrote: »

Why a stunt it brings the city hall into line with most of the rest of the UK city halls with the flag only flying in certain days of the year

It was a stunt because things were fine the way they were. I guess the if it ain't broke don't fix it line comes in. Having the nation's flag up shouldn't be an issue.

pablomakaveli · 11-12-2012 02:51PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It was a stunt, designed to piss off Loyalists. Like idiots, the Loyalists took the bait and went on the rampage.

How I love Northern Ireland.

Unionists have pulled a lot more stunts. The status of the Irish language comes to mind yet we dont see similiar rioting from nationalists.

The loyalists days of 70's style domination of NI are over and it seems a lot of them have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

Dodge · 11-12-2012 02:51PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Somehow I doubt that is the reason the flag is being taken down.

Sinn Fein and the SDLP want NI to fall in line with the rest of the UK

No, what Sinn Fein and the SDLP wanted was the flag removed completely. The Alliance party compromise was that the flag was flown on designated days, as with the rest of the UK

Compromise, remember that...

citytillidie · 11-12-2012 02:53PM

gallag wrote: »

With Friday being the first serious night I would think it was the correct strategy, why did you say last night was the first night though?

I did not see the news reports at the weekend about the Cannons being used

citytillidie · 11-12-2012 02:56PM

philologos wrote: »

It was a stunt because things were fine the way they were. I guess the if it ain't broke don't fix it line comes in. Having the nation's flag up shouldn't be an issue.

Things were not right the way the were times are chaging here in the North and its about time, cant have on side bully the other side all the time.

philologos · 11-12-2012 03:03PM

citytillidie wrote: »

Things were not right the way the were times are chaging here in the North and its about time, cant have on side bully the other side all the time.

The republicans particularly the dissident sort are bullies too. To claim it's a one sided conflict doesn't represent reality.

That's why I think all tribalism should stop irrespective of what type it is.

philologos · 11-12-2012 03:06PM

Leftist wrote: »

because they are sectarians.

They only care once they can identify what religion they are.

Don't be so generous. Religion isn't the real issue. It's tribalism, are you a unionist or nationalist. Religion is a cover. I've not heard of riots over theology in Northern Ireland. I suspect most involved in the rioting aren't churchgoers or hugely interested in Protestant theology.

Seaneh · 11-12-2012 03:07PM

Why do the B.B.C. and ITV keep saying "protest"? If it was republicans they'd rightly be saying riots.

These are not protests, they are riots organised by loyalist paramilitaries and should be called what they are.

Normal people don't bring petrol bombs and weapons to protest, they don't attack police and public buildings, they don't make death threats against elected members of local authorities because a democratic process went against their bigoted, archaic view of the world.

Thousands of Taxi drivers, Stall holders and shop owners in Belfast and around the North are going to be broke this christmass, some of them might go out of business, because of these bigoted gob****es, and the media are calling them "protests".

Idiocy. Call a spade a spade. Orange terror hanging over the head of the majority in 2012 just like it was when Carson was spreading his hate a hundred years ago

citytillidie · 11-12-2012 03:13PM

philologos wrote: »

The republicans particularly the dissident sort are bullies too. To claim it's a one sided conflict doesn't represent reality.

That's why I think all tribalism should stop irrespective of what type it is.

I was more talking about normal people, one side has had to fight for there civial rights even a right to a 1 man 1 vote while the other side has tried to stop this, i would call that bullying

philologos · 11-12-2012 03:28PM

citytillidie wrote: »

I was more talking about normal people, one side has had to fight for there civial rights even a right to a 1 man 1 vote while the other side has tried to stop this, i would call that bullying

Do you think these loyalist mobs represent most unionists in Northern Ireland?

Much in the same way that dissident republicans don't represent all nationalists, loyalists don't represent all unionists.

Both are about as bad as eachother in my estimation. I think people should be encouraged to stop caring about whether Northern Ireland is in the union or not. It'd do untold good.

LordSutch · 11-12-2012 03:30PM

Seaneh wrote: »

Thousands of Taxi drivers, Stall holders and shop owners in Belfast and around the North are going to be broke this christmass, some of them might go out of business, because of these bigoted gob****es, and the media are calling them "protests".

I was making a similar argument a few pages back, albeit from a slightly different angle . . .

LordSutch wrote: »

"Why was the decision made to take down the Union Flag in the lead up to Christmas? The busiest time of the year for shoppers, and the motion is passed to remove the Union flag (with the possibility that trouble would ensue). Surely it would have ebeen safer to have the whole discussion after Christmas, and after the Christmas sales? . . .

Seaneh · 11-12-2012 03:37PM

philologos wrote: »

Do you think these loyalist mobs represent most unionists in Northern Ireland?

Much in the same way that dissident republicans don't represent all nationalists, loyalists don't represent all unionists.

Both are about as bad as eachother in my estimation. I think people should be encouraged to stop caring about whether Northern Ireland is in the union or not. It'd do untold good.

The last umpteen pages all you've done is throw whataboutery around.
There is no defending or rationalising what's going on.

Fact. The Minority are rioting to try and scare the majority into doing what they want.

It's indefensible and should condemned by everyone, as it has been by every party in the north.

karma_ · 11-12-2012 03:37PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It was a stunt, designed to piss off Loyalists. Like idiots, the Loyalists took the bait and went on the rampage.

How I love Northern Ireland.

Actually it was an Alliance party motion Fred.

Seaneh · 11-12-2012 03:38PM

LordSutch wrote: »

I was making a similar argument a few pages back, albeit from a slightly different angle . . .

Ah, the classic blame shift...

Brilliant, I bet nobody saw through that one.

"Sure, she was asking for it, walking around in her yoga pants and tank top, the whore".

philologos · 11-12-2012 03:39PM

Seaneh wrote: »

The last umpteen pages are you've done is throw whataboutery around.
There is no defending or rationalising what's going on.

Fact. The Minority are rioting to try and scare the majority into doing what they want.

It's indefensible and should condemned by everyone, as it has been by every party in the north.

Read back a few pages ago and you'll see that I've condemned all forms of pointless tribalism in Northern Ireland. I think this is a horrible and dangerous display of loyalist nonsense. I object to nonsense that claims that dissident republicans are any better.

Simple as.

laoch na mona · 11-12-2012 03:41PM

philologos wrote: »

It was a stunt because things were fine the way they were. I guess the if it ain't broke don't fix it line comes in. Having the nation's flag up shouldn't be an issue.

no they weren't nationalists didn't feel welcome in city hall

LordSutch · 11-12-2012 03:41PM

Seaneh wrote: »

Ah, the classic blame shift...

Brilliant, I bet nobody saw through that one.

"Sure, she was asking for it, walking around in her yoga pants and tank top, the whore".

No No no Seaneh don't start that one! > I am blaming the Loyalist yobbos 100% for the rioting, but what I am saying is that the timimg of the flag removal was ill condceived (re the retail trade) as you too have said.

laoch na mona · 11-12-2012 03:45PM

philologos wrote: »

Read back a few pages ago and you'll see that I've condemned all forms of pointless tribalism.in Northern Ireland. I think this is a horrible and dangerous display of loyalist nonsense. I object to nonsense that claims that dissident republicans are any better.

Simple as.

who said dissidents were any better scum is scum

karma_ · 11-12-2012 03:46PM

LordSutch wrote: »

No No no Seaneh don't start that one! > I am blaming the Loyalist yobbos 100% for the rioting, but what I am saying is that the timimg of the flag removal was ill condceived (re the retail trade) as you too have said.

When would be acceptable?

Can't do it in January in case it would hurt sales.

July to September is out in case you incite during the marching season.

November, sure it would just be a slur for Remembrance week.

There is half the year accounted for. At least at Christmas you would think there would be a slight bit of goodwill among people.

Seaneh · 11-12-2012 03:47PM

LordSutch wrote: »

No No no Seaneh don't start that one! > I am blaming the Loyalist yobbos 100% for the rioting, but what I am saying is that the timimg of the flag removal was ill condceived (re the retail trade) as you too have said.

Then I apologise for inferring you were trying to shift blame.

But, seriously, the time of year shouldn't matter. This shouldn't be happening.
They'd kick up just as much **** in march as they are now. And that's disgusting.

Seaneh · 11-12-2012 03:49PM

philologos wrote: »

Read back a few pages ago and you'll see that I've condemned all forms of pointless tribalism.in Northern Ireland. I think this is a horrible and dangerous display of loyalist nonsense. I object to nonsense that claims that dissident republicans are any better.

Simple as.

I've read no posts defending dissidents on either side...
whataboutery. Everywhere.

LordSutch · 11-12-2012 03:51PM

karma_ wrote: »

When would be acceptable?

Logically, after Hilary Clintons visit, and after Christmas. then let them kick off . . .

I am 100% against the rioting myself, but if they must vent their illogical anger, then dont give the yobbos an excuse to do it at a time that will really hurt so many retailers.

Seaneh · 11-12-2012 03:52PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Logically, after Hilary Clintons visit, and after Christmas. then let them kick off . . .

I am 100% against the rioting myself, but if they must then dont give the yobbos an excuse to do it at a time that will really hurt so many retailers.

I honestly don't think that the council members saw this nonsense coming.

gallag · 11-12-2012 04:35PM

My takings are down about 50% on last year :-(, here is my Christmas present to the people that seem happy that the loyalists are making complete cocks of them selves, got home early hours of Saturday morning to find two burnt out cars at the entrance to my estate and some eloquent ****er had spray painted "give us our flag back" on the wall followed by a Nazi swastika, yes,that's right, the same people that put up Israel flags. merry ****ing Christmas.

Seaneh · 11-12-2012 04:40PM

gallag wrote: »

My takings are down about 50% on last year :-(, here is my Christmas present to the people that seem happy that the loyalists are making complete cocks of them selves, got home early hours of Saturday morning to find two burnt out cars at the entrance to my estate and some eloquent ****er had spray painted "give us our flag back" on the wall followed by a Nazi swastika, yes,that's right, the same people that put up Israel flags. merry ****ing Christmas.

That's horrible.

Chuck Stone · 11-12-2012 05:10PM

gallag wrote: »

if you are throwing a petrol bomb you should expect to be shot like every other country.

gallag wrote: »

Mabey a bit of police brutality is what is needed.

anncoates wrote: »

Like everyone, I think the police should bash them all off the streets

Far be it for me to defend so-called loyalists (spit) but they do have a right to protest peacefully, regardless of how dumb the reasons, which the majority probably are doing.

As for the police getting heavy handed and shooting to kill and battering the life out of people, well, fucking facepalms all round to you who have learned absolutely sweet fuck all from the past.

philologos wrote: »

Read back a few pages ago and you'll see that I've condemned all forms of pointless tribalism in Northern Ireland. I think this is a horrible and dangerous display of loyalist nonsense. I object to nonsense that claims that dissident republicans are any better.

Oh look, it's yer man galloping into a thread to announce to the world that he condemns both sides equally when this is clearly about so-called loyalists throwing their toys out of the pram.

Fucking yawn.

philologos · 11-12-2012 05:15PM

Chuck Stone wrote:

Oh look, it's yer man galloping into a thread to announce to the world that he condemns both sides equally when this is clearly about so-called loyalists throwing their toys out of the pram.

Fucking yawn.

I have a right to post no less than any other on this thread. I think both loyalist tribalism and republican tribalism would be greatly diminished with a good deal of apathy and goodwill.

I've condemned the loyalists very clearly. It wasn't until some claimed that the nationalists were being bullied and so on that I raised that many republicans are perfectly able to bully others into submission with violence.

There's nothing wrong with looking for a bit of objectivity even if seeking the middle ground is unpopular.

gallag · 11-12-2012 05:16PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Far be it for me to defend so-called loyalists (spit) but they do have a right to protest peacefully, regardless of how dumb the reasons, which the majority probably are doing.

As for the police getting heavy handed and shooting to kill and battering the life out of people, well, fucking facepalms all round to you who have learned absolutely sweet fuck all from the past.

That's the problem right there, how many country's in the world can you throw bombs at police trying to burn them to death and not be shot???

After a few knuckle dragers get shot the petrol bombs will stop.

Loyalist mobs attacking Alliance Party offices and homes.

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