Cut foreign aid!

RandomName2 · 10-12-2012 11:16AM #1

So we have had one of the harshest budgets in living memory. It has become apparent, as Charlie Haughie would say, that we have been living beyond our means, and now cuts-cuts- and property tax has come to bear in order to meet our obligations.

After all, we are broke, and having to pay back massive international bailouts.

So why are we giving away half a billion this year, overseas. Sending money to countries that are richer than us with money we have borrowed. We are actually sending money to countries such as China, one of the strongest economies in the world.

How much money is the dreaded property tax supposed to net this year?

Quarter of a billion. Half of what we are giving in aid... with borrowed money. We aren't even loaning this money, that we ourselves owe, that we are paying interest on. :pac:

Sure, our standing in the world's eyes is important. It is important not to look like a fiscally feckless country that cannot fund itself and has run up debts that has actually proven a threat to the entire Eurozone. To be spoken of in the same sentence as Greece!

So how about we don't send money abroad until we are out of debt?

If people feel that strongly about it, there is absolutely nothing stopping them from dipping into their own pockets to give to one of the many Irish charities that work abroad (they won't be going anywhere, after all, they're exempt from tax).

SEPT 23 1989 · 10-12-2012 11:19AM

cut and slash

areyawell · 10-12-2012 11:23AM

A lot of them charities are a joke. The wages some people are unreal I know someone on 30k a year with concern and never make 600 a week or even a month true fundraising schemes. They'd never actually make more than there wage in a year.

The Aussie · 10-12-2012 11:26AM

There are people on this Island worse off than some of the countries foreign aid is going to.

My favourite has to be India though, they can afford a Space Programme and a Nuclear Programme but still play the poor card.

summerskin · 10-12-2012 11:28AM

areyawell wrote: »

A lot of them charities are a joke. The wages some people are unreal I know someone on 30k a year with concern and never make 600 a week or even a month true fundraising schemes. They'd never actually make more than there wage in a year.

I did it for 5 years in London(chugging that is) about ten years ago, either on the street or as a manager. got punched three times, punched someone myself once. the pay was good, started at £9.50 an hour and by the time i left i was on over £32000. Over the 5 years i was there the people i signed up donated a total of £924,000 to the charities i represented, roughly 6 times what I earned in that time, making it a great return for the charities.

Had a great time doing it, but now i wonder why the hell i did it and wouldn't do it again.

It's crazy for the govt here to be dishing out foreign aid when the books here can't be balanced.

micromary · 10-12-2012 11:32AM

Totally agree. As a example Concern is a total joke. They advise that they want to help undernourished people abroad. The reality is that they have a management who earns better then a lot of people (some charity) where ordinary people are hassled in the streets and where for example my father gets phone calls trying to get him to donate. Its ridiculous and when their ads come on I just turn them off because I am not interested anymore. Charity begins at home and I for one will support organisations like Vincent de Paul, Focus Ireland or Simon before looking at Concern, Sightsavers or any of that stuff.

Caliden · 10-12-2012 11:40AM

Don't know the exact figures but isn't Ireland one of the highest contributors of foreign aid compared to our population size?

franktheplank · 10-12-2012 11:43AM

Ridiculous especially when you consider there is no regulation of Irish charities! So they can pretty much be doing what they want with this money, cough, ahem corruption?

Yakult · 10-12-2012 11:44AM

How are we even sending that much over when we supposedly dont have it?
I'd rather it stopped and the money put to use here in Ireland where we actually need it too. Then when we can walk, start giving again.

snubbleste · 10-12-2012 11:49AM

How can a bankrupt country be aiding others

MaxSteele · 10-12-2012 11:49AM

In before the "It's not comparable to the conditions in sub saharan africa" or the sarcastic "you're a wonderful human being" bollox.

OP be prepared for an onslaught of patronizing, bleeding hearts, self proclaimed broad minded socialists and clueless idiots in general. They'd sooner watch someone die without a bed in an irish hospital before accepting foreign aid in a recession is a complete farce.

the groutch · 10-12-2012 11:52AM

easy solution to the problem.

1. end all foreign aid by the government
2. ban all "charities" that provide aid to 3rd world countries
3. set up one central foreign aid fund, and those who want to donate can do so.

The Aussie · 10-12-2012 11:54AM

MaxSteele wrote: »

OP be prepared for an onslaught of patronizing, bleeding hearts, self proclaimed broad minded socialists and clueless idiots in general. They'd sooner watch someone die without a bed in an irish hospital before accepting foreign aid in a recession is a complete farce.

If we're quick we can do this thread while they are occupied with the Anti-Abortion type threads, same tools...

SafeSurfer · 10-12-2012 11:58AM

My proposal regarding foreign aid, as I have posted elsewhere is that it is a voluntary contribution. You simply tick a box on your tax return if you wish to donate say 0.1% of your income to overseas aid.
There is more of an onus on ex colonial powers who exploited African and Asian countries to make reparations through foreign aid than on Ireland which is an exploited ex colony itself.

Death and Taxes · 10-12-2012 11:59AM

the groutch wrote: »

easy solution to the problem.

1. end all foreign aid by the government
2. ban all "charities" that provide aid to 3rd world countries
3. set up one central foreign aid fund, and those who want to donate can do so.

Why ban all charities? Surely if I want to give to a specific charity I have the right to, after all its my own money. I have no issue with people demanding that the government stop funding forigen aid, but who are you to tell anyone else what they can do with their own money. Personally I dont give to Irish charities because they tend to be either corrupt of just extensions of the RCC, I give to Medicens san Frontiers.

Gurgle · 10-12-2012 12:00PM

Yeah, right on!
Why should those greedy fcukers eat when we're struggling to pay for sky sports?

SEPT 23 1989 · 10-12-2012 12:01PM

Gurgle wrote: »

Yeah, right on!
Why should those greedy fcukers eat when we're struggling to pay for sky sports?

you better believe it

Jester252 · 10-12-2012 12:03PM

Cutting foreign aid right now would be idiotic

The Aussie · 10-12-2012 12:05PM

Gurgle wrote: »

Yeah, right on!
Why should those greedy fcukers eat when we're struggling to pay for sky sports?

I don't even have Sky without even thinking about Sky Sports, now give me my money.

kylith · 10-12-2012 12:06PM

If we stopped giving aid, how many years would it take to pay off our debts compared to now?

RandomName2 · 10-12-2012 12:07PM

Gurgle wrote: »

Yeah, right on!
Why should those greedy fcukers eat when we're struggling to pay for sky sports?

Struggle to stay in our homes. :pac:

But as I said, if you feel strongly about it there's nothing stopping you from giving money. Your money.

And besides which most of those leaders don't look that greedy to me. Rich, sure. Not greedy.

RandomName2 · 10-12-2012 12:10PM

kylith wrote: »

If we stopped giving aid, how many years would it take to pay off our debts compared to now?

If we got rid of foreign aid, we could also get rid of the welfare cuts and property tax and pay back our debts in exactly the same amount of time.

RandomName2 · 10-12-2012 12:11PM

Jester252 wrote: »

Cutting foreign aid right now would be idiotic

Yes, we should obviously wait to not to have to borrow money to cut foreign aid.

Yakult · 10-12-2012 12:17PM

Jester252 wrote: »

Cutting foreign aid right now would be idiotic

Why?

Jester252 · 10-12-2012 12:36PM

Yakult wrote: »

Why?

Not to mention that the aid is just a way to build international relations but Ireland doesn't look to good right now due to the Galway case. It wouldn't help attempets to improve our standing if we made any cuts to foreign aid and closed ranks. I'm far from a "bleeding heart"(which all the poster saying to cut foregin aid will be if it was about cutting welfare)

BidillyBo · 10-12-2012 12:55PM

Jester252 wrote: »

Not to mention that the aid is just a way to build international relations but Ireland doesn't look to good right now due to the Galway case. It wouldn't help attempets to improve our standing if we made any cuts to foreign aid and closed ranks. I'm far from a "bleeding heart"(which all the poster saying to cut foregin aid will be if it was about cutting welfare)

Why is this standing so important to us? Its not as if tourists look at who was the biggest donator to their country and go there. And if its about getting business' to come here, the majority of business men are there to make money not to give a favor to a country that gave them aid

Iwannahurl · 10-12-2012 01:15PM

MaxSteele wrote: »

In before the "It's not comparable to the conditions in sub saharan africa" or the sarcastic "you're a wonderful human being" bollox.

OP be prepared for an onslaught of patronizing, bleeding hearts, self proclaimed broad minded socialists and clueless idiots in general. They'd sooner watch someone die without a bed in an irish hospital before accepting foreign aid in a recession is a complete farce.

The Aussie wrote: »

If we're quick we can do this thread while they are occupied with the Anti-Abortion type threads, same tools...

Perhaps it's a little bit late -- and a little bit 'rich' -- for Ireland to reject foreign aid at this juncture.

Opinion piece from 2004, when the Celtic Casino partay was in full swing:

Ireland Tops Cash per Head Income Aid from European Union

Despite being one of the richest countries of the European Union, Ireland will continue to receive significant amounts of what can be termed 'Foreign Aid,' until 2007.

Other European taxpayers are still funding us [in 2004], with the largest shares paid by the Netherlands, Germany and Sweden. Germany has been the leading contributor to Ireland's net receipts of €34 billion since joining the then European Community in 1973-the amount would be considerably higher if stated in current money values. Today [2004], Germany has many economic problems in particular in the former East Germany where unemployment is 20%.

Only four countries benefited from EU money in 2003- Portugal, Greece, Ireland and Spain - while the rest were net contributors. In terms of cash per head, the funding amounted to a net receipt of €391.70 for each Irish national. At the other of the scale, Dutch, Luxembourg and German nationals pay €120, €125 and €92.7 respectively, while each Briton pays €46.50.

In 2002, Irish Finance Minister Charlie McCreevy said that the 2001 net EU receipts in 2001, were equivalent to 4% on the standard rate of income tax and that the total in cash benefits since joining was almost equal to the then national debt.

Ireland has done very well, nationally and regionally, from EU Structural and Cohesion funds (aka foreign aid), a fact that countries like Turkey are careful to note.

Blisterman · 10-12-2012 01:16PM

Of all government expenditure, foreign aid probably does more good work per euro spent than any other.

Grayson · 10-12-2012 01:19PM

RandomName2 wrote: »

Struggle to stay in our homes. :pac:

But as I said, if you feel strongly about it there's nothing stopping you from giving money. Your money.

Fair enough. I'm a single bloke. I don't have children. Why should I pay towards childrens allowance or schools? I also don't think anyone's about to invade. So I don't think I should pay towards the army.
And I have private health care, so ditto with any healthcare for anyone else, why should I pay.

I didn't realise that we could opt out of what our taxes were used for. handy that.

joydivision · 10-12-2012 01:31PM

Is this the "let the negroes starve thread " .

Would it be considered ok to wear a pillowcase is here ?

RandomName2 · 10-12-2012 01:37PM

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Perhaps it's a little bit late -- and a little bit 'rich' -- for Ireland to reject foreign aid at this juncture.

Opinion piece from 2004, when the Celtic Casino partay was in full swing:
Ireland Tops Cash per Head Income Aid from European Union

Despite being one of the richest countries of the European Union, Ireland will continue to receive significant amounts of what can be termed 'Foreign Aid,' until 2007.

Other European taxpayers are still funding us [in 2004], with the largest shares paid by the Netherlands, Germany and Sweden. Germany has been the leading contributor to Ireland's net receipts of €34 billion since joining the then European Community in 1973-the amount would be considerably higher if stated in current money values. Today [2004], Germany has many economic problems in particular in the former East Germany where unemployment is 20%.

Only four countries benefited from EU money in 2003- Portugal, Greece, Ireland and Spain - while the rest were net contributors. In terms of cash per head, the funding amounted to a net receipt of €391.70 for each Irish national. At the other of the scale, Dutch, Luxembourg and German nationals pay €120, €125 and €92.7 respectively, while each Briton pays €46.50.

In 2002, Irish Finance Minister Charlie McCreevy said that the 2001 net EU receipts in 2001, were equivalent to 4% on the standard rate of income tax and that the total in cash benefits since joining was almost equal to the then national debt.

Ireland has done very well, nationally and regionally, from EU Structural and Cohesion funds (aka foreign aid), a fact that countries like Turkey are careful to note.

Opinion piece

FROM 2004

We were at the time net recipients from the EU - we were expected to start paying the EU more than we were receiving but...

Newsflash

We're broke.

Anachronistic opinion pieces are excellent talking point though

Cut foreign aid!

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