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as it happens... Live Commentary Thread

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Comments

  • #272
    Pottler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,073 ✭✭✭Pottler


    djpbarry wrote: »
    All of it? Not one cent will be returned?
    Yes, all of it. Never will be returned. Full stop. Gone.:)

    Gilmore on RTE news bald facedly defending his abandonment of pre-election promise after pre-election promise. "We are working to ensure that those with the broadest shoulders bear the most weight". Yes. Indeed Eamon. I fully believe you. You and Santa.


  • #273
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,447 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    anyone any idea what the free travel allowance for OAP's costs the state? also can those with a medical card pay anything when visiting a gp?


  • #274
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Pottler wrote: »
    Yes, all of it. Never will be returned. Full stop. Gone.:)
    Seems unlikely considering AIB and BOI are still in business?


  • #275
    Scortho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭Scortho


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    anyone any idea what the free travel allowance for OAP's costs the state? also can those with a medical card pay anything when visiting a gp?

    The free travel scheme costs the state 75 million a year.

    750000 people are eligible but when companion passes are counted for it rises to 1.1million. So nearly 25% of the population can travel for free. I can't find any info on oaps but ill keep looking!:)

    There was an article in the irish times back In September:
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0905/1224323611864.html

    In it they mention bringing in peak time restrictions.

    This I think would be an excellent idea as people who wish to use their free travel can still use it. If they want to travel at peak time they'd pay a small fee maybe the child's fare of 80 odd cent. This will free up space on buses when they're in most demand for paying customers!

    The article mentions that the last of the restrictions were removed in 06!


  • #276
    noodler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,548 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Pottler wrote: »
    Yes, all of it. Never will be returned. Full stop. Gone.:)
    djpbarry wrote: »
    Seems unlikely considering AIB and BOI are still in business?


    The NTMA have valued our stakes in BoI and AIB at 8bn.

    We will also likely sell Irish Life for 1bn+.

    What we get from Europe has to be greater than the above otherwise they are just offereing us market value.


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  • #277
    Pottler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,073 ✭✭✭Pottler


    noodler wrote: »
    The NTMA have valued our stakes in BoI and AIB at 8bn.

    We will also likely sell Irish Life for 1bn+.

    What we get from Europe has to be greater than the above otherwise they are just offereing us market value.
    I reserve the right to lmfao. Our stake in BOI and AIB? Let's see what they realise. I think they will realise €0, personally. The holding will be diluted and re-diluted and then forgiven, or long-fingered, for "commercial viability" reasons. If they get €500m for IL I'll be stunned and I'd say €300m would be closer to what a vulture will give for it, and that will be €30 mil down and the rest in installments/deferred/paid when the vulture sells on for true value. Optimism is a great trait but not when it's a state body entrusted with handling state assets.


  • #278
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    noodler wrote: »
    The NTMA have valued our stakes in BoI and AIB at 8bn.

    We will also likely sell Irish Life for 1bn+.

    What we get from Europe has to be greater than the above otherwise they are just offereing us market value.

    We currently receive about a Billion annually IIRC from Irish banks for the guarantee.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #279
    noodler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,548 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    K-9 wrote: »
    We currently receive about a Billion annually IIRC from Irish banks for the guarantee.

    Not sure what your point is?

    In any case:

    1) That is a State-owned institution in the case of IBRC, PTSB and AIB (EBS) giving money to another. All the banks currently make losses. Every loss they make brings us closer to having to recapitalise them again.

    2) The fees from the scheme will half next year and most banks expect to leave it ELG scheme next year. BoI are chomping at the bit and will likely leave the scheme by in Q1.

    Basically, if your point was that we should hold the banks for 60 years to get 60bn then I am afraid it is a bit of a fallacy!

    The ESRI's Professor John Fitzgerald has argued we would be better off keeping the banks for a few mor years than accepting a 'market value' offer for them - the ELG scheme can't be forced on them though and any bank that manages to raise money without the State's guarantee will become a more attractive proposition for private investment as well as eventually being able to secure inter-bank funding at reasonable rates.


  • #280
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Pottler wrote: »
    I reserve the right to lmfao. Our stake in BOI and AIB? Let's see what they realise. I think they will realise €0, personally. The holding will be diluted and re-diluted and then forgiven, or long-fingered, for "commercial viability" reasons.
    In your opinion. The fact remains that the state's stake in AIB and BOI will almost certainly be sold, at some point in the future, for something above €0. Throwing away either or both stakes would be political suicide.

    You could of course give an example of a state/semi-state company that was given away for nothing? Might help your argument.
    noodler wrote: »
    Basically, if your point was that we should hold the banks for 60 years to get 60bn then I am afraid it is a bit of a fallacy!
    I don't think K-9 was proposing anything, just stating a fact for those who may be unaware.


  • #281
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    noodler wrote: »
    Not sure what your point is?

    In any case:

    1) That is a State-owned institution in the case of IBRC, PTSB and AIB (EBS) giving money to another. All the banks currently make losses. Every loss they make brings us closer to having to recapitalise them again.

    2) The fees from the scheme will half next year and most banks expect to leave it ELG scheme next year. BoI are chomping at the bit and will likely leave the scheme by in Q1.

    Basically, if your point was that we should hold the banks for 60 years to get 60bn then I am afraid it is a bit of a fallacy!

    The ESRI's Professor John Fitzgerald has argued we would be better off keeping the banks for a few mor years than accepting a 'market value' offer for them - the ELG scheme can't be forced on them though and any bank that manages to raise money without the State's guarantee will become a more attractive proposition for private investment as well as eventually being able to secure inter-bank funding at reasonable rates.

    Wasn't really making any point, just stating it as income from the banks that the state gets. I'd agree it might be a bit pointless but it is revenue that reduces the overall cost.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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