Homeland - Season 2 [Showtime - US] Spoilers!

gnfnrhead · 05-12-2012 05:01PM

lukin wrote: »

Also it wasn't very jihadist to have Nazir assasinate the VP in such a covert manner. I mean nobody will even know that he was assasinated as the White House will put out a story about a faulty pacemaker or something.
The whole point of terrorism is to terrrorise people (beheadings on the internet, flying plans into buildings etc.). A big "spectacular" that everyone will see.
It didn't make sense for Nazir to do it in this way.

Maybe in Nazir's mind he isnt a terrorist, but simply fighting for revenge. He's happy just once his targets are dead, regardless of how.

miralize · 05-12-2012 05:52PM

Not sure if posted already, but this article is trying to make sense of the last episode http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2012/12/a-homeland-conspiracy-theory.html

lukin · 05-12-2012 06:07PM

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Maybe in Nazir's mind he isnt a terrorist, but simply fighting for revenge. He's happy just once his targets are dead, regardless of how.

His tactics so far have not indicated that; he wanted the the entire chiefs of staff blown up in the bunker by Brody's suicide vest and there was a plan to take down a plane from the rooftop of a house as well I think?

seligehgit · 05-12-2012 07:03PM

The fact that Nazir the proverbial bogey man came to the US does not sit comfortably with me,as mentioned earlier the whole mystique around his menace/threat was shattered.Balderdash,his talk of bringing the fight directly to the enemy.Grates on me that Carrie did not mention the immediate threat to the VP when she made contact post her escape.Still wonderful tv,whole pacemaker storyline was intriguing.Loved the line Brody came out with to Mike...."Thanks for helping out Mike",more than a touch of sarcasm,why would'nt he help Jess??:D

tipptom · 05-12-2012 07:14PM

lukin wrote: »

His tactics so far have not indicated that; he wanted the the entire chiefs of staff blown up in the bunker by Brody's suicide vest and there was a plan to take down a plane from the rooftop of a house as well I think?

Yea but nearly every attack he had planned had the vice president in the equation.It never rested right with me that such a figure would pursue such a personal vendetta instead of the greater good of their cause, where they would sacrifice anybody in their life for the Jihad and often do,would think his zealot mates would be thinking"Why are we chasing this guy around America for his son",Allah and our sacrifices is bigger than this mans grief stricken revenge.

Leroy42 · 05-12-2012 07:26PM

Seligehit, that is a really good point about Carrie not telling Saul about the VP. No way she wouldn't have mentioned it. She is hell bent on stopping a terrorist attack, and since they have no intelligence to date as to what the target is, it would seem pretty logical that having been kidnapped by Nazir and witness the roll out of the plot to kill the VP that she would she this as the target and do something to stop it.

The problem for her now, since she was kidnapped and escaped, is she will be interogated by the CIA to find out more about Nazir and how will she explain why she was kidnapped, and released, without mentioning the VP plot! If she mentions it then they will of course drop her off the CIA for such a massive failure, if she tries not to and they work it out......

Lingua Franca · 05-12-2012 07:58PM

lukin wrote: »

...and there was a plan to take down a plane from the rooftop of a house as well I think?

I think that plot was for Tom Walker to sniper shoot the VP from the rooftop since the air force one landing site was in view from the rooftop. But of course they were sussed and fled.

quickbeam · 05-12-2012 10:49PM

Not the best episode of Homeland ever, but still enjoyable enough.

Carrie was crazy for returning to the warehouse. Apart from her own safety in fighting an armed man with a crowbar in a dark room - how were the CIA meant to find the place without her to direct them. We all know she likes to do her own thing, and to hell with orders, but she has absolutely no back-up. It'll probably be glossed over and the team will find her anyway because it's movie-land.

It was an excellent twist to see that Brody was genuinely helping the CIA after his latest release from Nazir. We all expected that not to be the real attack and for Brody to be playing them, but seemingly not now. I'd have liked to have seen them interrogating Roya though to see if how strong she really is since she seemed to be a fairly key member.

What intriged me most was Saul's apprehension at the end. What was that all about, I wonder, and who will he be brought to see?

stringofmisery · 05-12-2012 10:58PM

I think he was more pissed off that they were interrupting him on his way to resuce carrie

The Black Oil · 05-12-2012 10:59PM

Part of me was hoping that Nazir would kill Carrie (I don't dislike her) for some creative ballsiness on the show's part, but there was no chance of that happening since she's 50% of the story.

Br4tPr1nc3 · 06-12-2012 12:46AM

i wouldnt be suprised if carrie dies at the end of this season. as well as brody.

he came close last episode. and carries is mad for him, they know it. so thats prob why they stopped saul.

clean up the whole thing.

RodgersLFC · 06-12-2012 01:05AM

Br4tPr1nc3 wrote: »

i wouldnt be suprised if carrie dies at the end of this season. as well as brody.

he came close last episode. and carries is mad for him, they know it. so thats prob why they stopped saul.

clean up the whole thing.

Its unlikely, considering they've signed up Danes and Lewis for 5 seasons! But i really wish they'd kill Carrie off. She gives me a headache.

Cartman78 · 06-12-2012 10:31AM

The episode the other night really jumped the shark imho.

Have always enjoyed Homeland and, mainly thanks to the performances and the pacing, was willing to ignore some of the inherent daftness/plot holes in it.

But the last episode was a shocker on a number of levels - don't have time to write a full synopsis at the minute but this article covers a lot of what I was going to say...
http://www.salon.com/2012/12/03/homeland_recap_what_a_mess/

don ramo · 06-12-2012 12:04PM

i like how everyone is referencing that article rather than giving their actual opinion on the show, myself and 2 or 3 other have torn most of those points the shreds, :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Cartman78 · 06-12-2012 12:14PM

Well you can put in all the rolleyes that you like but that episode simply doesn't hold up to any objective analysis.

When you invest time in watching a show that seems to be good and it goes and does stupid things like the other night it is very frustrating.

As I've alluded to in earlier posts in this thread, the DNA of 24 is unfortunately running through this programme and came very much to the fore this week

ben.schlomo · 06-12-2012 12:41PM

don ramo wrote: »

i like how everyone is referencing that article rather than giving their actual opinion on the show, myself and 2 or 3 other have torn most of those points the shreds, :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

The only way you could tear those to shreds is if you blindly love the show and simply accept what you are fed without critically analysing it, at least 5 of the points brought up in the Salon link i was saying to my OH as we watched it, the rest were just funny, some you could argue with but the majority are glaring issues.

Rosy Posy · 06-12-2012 12:51PM

freeze4real wrote: »

Who is the snitch ? It comes down to Saul, but I doubt it.

Danny ? but he's been missing in action for the past 2 weeks, maybe it was an opportunity to do his dirty work.

Quinn, A CIA analyst possibility is slim but can happen.

Estes ? quite possible but whats connection does he have to Nazir.

Superb episodes this week, Revenge Homeland walking dead.

My money's on Max for the mole, or possibly Galvez. Although it would make sense that Saul could have passed the guard the razorblade in Season 1 when he held his hands and greeted him. Also he failed the polygraph the first time. I really hope it isn't tho as he's the only character on this show that I still like. Carrie is hacking me off no end with her constant breakdowns and her flagrant disregard for sense.. WTF was she thinking walking back in there with the pipe!!

Cartman78 · 06-12-2012 12:53PM

Nearly every episode seems to have a couple of WTF!?! moments but you can dismiss these and move on to the next scene.

I think there's been a backlash after this week due to the concentrated amount of rubbish elements in one episode (particularly in the last 5-10 mins).

Having said all that, I'll still be watching next week to see Carrie tackling terrorists with a wrench :pac:

And despite the speculation, I think it would be hugely refreshing if there wasn't a mole - that has to be the lamest, laziest plot device going in shows like this

don ramo · 06-12-2012 01:27PM

ben.schlomo wrote: »

The only way you could tear those to shreds is if you blindly love the show and simply accept what you are fed without critically analysing it, at least 5 of the points brought up in the Salon link i was saying to my OH as we watched it, the rest were just funny, some you could argue with but the majority are glaring issues.

1) Abu Nazir kidnaps Carrie.

no he didnt, he sent someone to get her, and he had kidnapped her cause brody got his family to safety, thus leaving carrie as his only card to play, and im sure roya told him that carrie could be a weak link

2) Carrie listens to jazz/the ”Homeland” theme song as she’s getting hit by a car.

didnt realize she wasnt allowed to listen to jazz, the cheek of her,

3) Brody does not call the CIA.

like point 1 brody likes her, and plus all nazir wanted was to kill the VP, which brody also wanted,

4) BlackBerrys do not have that kind of video functionality.

yes to do support video function, but in all fairness no show ever shows video functionality the way it actually is,

5) You can’t see Claire Danes’ chin wobble when she is wearing a mouth gag.

are they trying to insinuate the gag was CGIed in,

6) Brody still has security clearance.

of course he does, only 5 or 6 people know about him being a terrorist, outside of that hes a US senator going for the VP job,

his clearance will be taken away when its revealed, until then everything has to look legit,

7) Galvez is back.

so what, he likes his job, or hes the mole, either way, who cares, its not like he out in the field, hes hanging around the office, these people are trying to stop a terrorist attack, if your capable and have something to offer your gonna help out as much as you can,

8) There is no security in the vice president’s house.

its a compound, the only way in if to go through 3 or 4 security checks, brody was in the private residence and walden caught him there and didnt care, why would he, this is his running partner,

9) “You still don’t get it. I’m killing you.”

he wanted walden to know that it was him doing this to him, how else would he ****ing know:rolleyes:,

10) The “serious, philosophical” conversation about terrorism.

god damn them writers, filling out pages with stupid view points of the characters,

11) Nazir lets Carrie go before Brody sends him the vice president’s pacemaker number.

cause he swore on isa immortal soul, nazir knows brody very well and knew he loved his son as much as he did, and he knows that bordy wants walden dead just as much as him,

12) Carrie walks into a dark room.

so what there probably isnt anything there, nazir left 5 minutes after he left carrie go, do people actually need to see him walking away from the area to come to this conclusion, why the hell would he hang around after letting her go,

13) None of this needed to happen.

going by that logic, why didnt they just write nazir out of the show when the were in lebanon, i mean he was right there, all you had to put on the script was "nazir falls to ground with a bullet between the eyes" boom nazirs dead, show over,

brimal · 06-12-2012 02:03PM

Rosy Posy wrote: »

My money's on Max for the mole, or possibly Galvez. Although it would make sense that Saul could have passed the guard the razorblade in Season 1 when he held his hands and greeted him. Also he failed the polygraph the first time. I really hope it isn't tho as he's the only character on this show that I still like. Carrie is hacking me off no end with her constant breakdowns and her flagrant disregard for sense.. WTF was she thinking walking back in there with the pipe!!

I really don't think Saul would be the mole. The audience needs a character like Saul - someone they can fully trust, someone who is reliable. Nobody else in the show (even Carrie) is fully trustworthy and the audience needs a character like Saul to give them some sort of stability in the show.

Then again, the way this show twists and turns I wouldn't be surprised if Saul did turn out to be a bad guy..

lukin · 06-12-2012 03:04PM

Has anyone got a clip of Brody when he was on the phone to Nazir as Carrie was being released? That part where he was nodding his head furiously and going "uh-uh, uh-uh" was really funny.
Don't get me wrong, I think he's a great actor but I think he overdid it there.

brimal · 06-12-2012 03:15PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-33hXfkGeCk

Interesting video from David Harewood who plays Estes. He says "People think I'm the mole. I know who the mole is but I can't say, etc."

It kind of leads me to think that the mole is definitely a big part of the plot, and it will be revealed at some point.

He also mentioned Estes still has a thing for Carrie, which isn't really evident in the show but he must have been told this by the writers/producer/whoever, so that might come to light soon.

ben.schlomo · 06-12-2012 04:09PM

don ramo wrote: »

1) Abu Nazir kidnaps Carrie.

no he didnt, he sent someone to get her, and he had kidnapped her cause brody got his family to safety, thus leaving carrie as his only card to play, and im sure roya told him that carrie could be a weak link

2) Carrie listens to jazz/the ”Homeland” theme song as she’s getting hit by a car.

didnt realize she wasnt allowed to listen to jazz, the cheek of her,

3) Brody does not call the CIA.

like point 1 brody likes her, and plus all nazir wanted was to kill the VP, which brody also wanted,

4) BlackBerrys do not have that kind of video functionality.

yes to do support video function, but in all fairness no show ever shows video functionality the way it actually is,

5) You can’t see Claire Danes’ chin wobble when she is wearing a mouth gag.

are they trying to insinuate the gag was CGIed in,

6) Brody still has security clearance.

of course he does, only 5 or 6 people know about him being a terrorist, outside of that hes a US senator going for the VP job,

his clearance will be taken away when its revealed, until then everything has to look legit,

7) Galvez is back.

so what, he likes his job, or hes the mole, either way, who cares, its not like he out in the field, hes hanging around the office, these people are trying to stop a terrorist attack, if your capable and have something to offer your gonna help out as much as you can,

8) There is no security in the vice president’s house.

its a compound, the only way in if to go through 3 or 4 security checks, brody was in the private residence and walden caught him there and didnt care, why would he, this is his running partner,

9) “You still don’t get it. I’m killing you.”

he wanted walden to know that it was him doing this to him, how else would he ****ing know:rolleyes:,

10) The “serious, philosophical” conversation about terrorism.

god damn them writers, filling out pages with stupid view points of the characters,

11) Nazir lets Carrie go before Brody sends him the vice president’s pacemaker number.

cause he swore on isa immortal soul, nazir knows brody very well and knew he loved his son as much as he did, and he knows that bordy wants walden dead just as much as him,

12) Carrie walks into a dark room.

so what there probably isnt anything there, nazir left 5 minutes after he left carrie go, do people actually need to see him walking away from the area to come to this conclusion, why the hell would he hang around after letting her go,

13) None of this needed to happen.

going by that logic, why didnt they just write nazir out of the show when the were in lebanon, i mean he was right there, all you had to put on the script was "nazir falls to ground with a bullet between the eyes" boom nazirs dead, show over,

1: He manages to get 'someone' to manage to crash a car into a CIA operative in broad daylight with little to no witnesses, my he is good.
2: Carrie listens to the weird jazzy theme, it is just such a randomly strange moment, nobody said she cant listen to music but there are many less conspicuous pieces of musice that could be used.
3:How was Brody's phone no longer being tracked as he was clearly going to be a target for something from Nazir now that he knows Brody betrayed him, that was just completely idiotic.
6:Yes he needs to look legit but again how can nobody from the CIA be tracking him, it just doesnt addd up.
10: The phylosophical thing would have been so much better in an interrogation style piece with Saul not with 'wackjob' Carrie.
12: Carrie has no need to go in there unarmed and start banging doors, totting around in heels and generally being a noise disturbance, its hardly agent 101 now is it. Plus the CIA were en route and knew the location so it is unnecessary for her to do it especially with a pipe for a weapon. Although we do know she loves a bit of pipe,zing.:D

JoeA3 · 06-12-2012 04:10PM

Interesting that 2 of the main characters (Estes and Brody) are played by british actors - and they pull it off very convincingly IMO.

DebDynamite · 06-12-2012 04:23PM

JoeA3 wrote: »

Interesting that 2 of the main characters (Estes and Brody) are played by british actors - and they pull it off very convincingly IMO.

Rupert Friend, who plays Quinn is also British (English).

brimal · 06-12-2012 04:28PM

Zuleikha Robinson, who plays Roya, is also British

RodgersLFC · 06-12-2012 04:48PM

I do like this show, but there's no getting away from the fact that its a poor mans 24. 24 was a damn great show.

JoeA3 · 06-12-2012 05:36PM

brimal wrote: »

Zuleikha Robinson, who plays Roya, is also British

Oh yeah, forgot Quinn... Roya doesn't really count as she uses her own (or some variation of!) english accent!

TwoShedsJackson · 06-12-2012 05:48PM

ben.schlomo wrote: »

2: Carrie listens to the weird jazzy theme, it is just such a randomly strange moment, nobody said she cant listen to music but there are many less conspicuous pieces of musice that could be used.

Any time she's been shown listening to music previously on the show, it's been jazz. She jokingly bet a (presumably) rare jazz record on the outcome of a bet in Season 1.

Tipsy McSwagger · 06-12-2012 06:35PM

don ramo wrote: »

1) Abu Nazir kidnaps Carrie.

no he didnt, he sent someone to get her, and he had kidnapped her cause brody got his family to safety, thus leaving carrie as his only card to play, and im sure roya told him that carrie could be a weak link

2) Carrie listens to jazz/the ”Homeland” theme song as she’s getting hit by a car.

didnt realize she wasnt allowed to listen to jazz, the cheek of her,

3) Brody does not call the CIA.

like point 1 brody likes her, and plus all nazir wanted was to kill the VP, which brody also wanted,

4) BlackBerrys do not have that kind of video functionality.

yes to do support video function, but in all fairness no show ever shows video functionality the way it actually is,

5) You can’t see Claire Danes’ chin wobble when she is wearing a mouth gag.

are they trying to insinuate the gag was CGIed in,

6) Brody still has security clearance.

of course he does, only 5 or 6 people know about him being a terrorist, outside of that hes a US senator going for the VP job,

his clearance will be taken away when its revealed, until then everything has to look legit,

7) Galvez is back.

so what, he likes his job, or hes the mole, either way, who cares, its not like he out in the field, hes hanging around the office, these people are trying to stop a terrorist attack, if your capable and have something to offer your gonna help out as much as you can,

8) There is no security in the vice president’s house.

its a compound, the only way in if to go through 3 or 4 security checks, brody was in the private residence and walden caught him there and didnt care, why would he, this is his running partner,

9) “You still don’t get it. I’m killing you.”

he wanted walden to know that it was him doing this to him, how else would he ****ing know:rolleyes:,

10) The “serious, philosophical” conversation about terrorism.

god damn them writers, filling out pages with stupid view points of the characters,

11) Nazir lets Carrie go before Brody sends him the vice president’s pacemaker number.

cause he swore on isa immortal soul, nazir knows brody very well and knew he loved his son as much as he did, and he knows that bordy wants walden dead just as much as him,

12) Carrie walks into a dark room.

so what there probably isnt anything there, nazir left 5 minutes after he left carrie go, do people actually need to see him walking away from the area to come to this conclusion, why the hell would he hang around after letting her go,

13) None of this needed to happen.

going by that logic, why didnt they just write nazir out of the show when the were in lebanon, i mean he was right there, all you had to put on the script was "nazir falls to ground with a bullet between the eyes" boom nazirs dead, show over,

Why was Brody's cellphone not tapped in this particular episode?

Homeland - Season 2 [Showtime - US] **Spoilers!**

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Homeland - Season 2 [Showtime - US] Spoilers!