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Shopowner kicks dead aggressive customer - get's life for murder?

  • 06-12-2012 12:04PM
    #1
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,092 ✭✭✭✭


    An aggressive, lying customer hit the shop owner, refused to pay and did a runner. The shop owner went after him and kicked him repeatedly. The "customer" unfortunately died

    Surely this is only manslaughter at the very most?

    Linky

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



«13456

Comments

  • #2
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Over 70c... fcuking disgusting


  • #3
    stevedublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 980 ✭✭✭stevedublin


    So the customer made the first punch?


  • #4
    Andy-Pandy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭Andy-Pandy


    If you kick people in the head when they are on the ground and they die, it is murder, end of.


  • #5
    crusher000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 649 ✭✭✭crusher000


    No justification in kicking anyone to death. Justice in this circumstance has been served.


  • #6
    ElleEm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭ElleEm


    "The customer unfortunatly died"????

    Cos he was KICKED TO DEATH!!!!


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  • #7
    Remmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Remmy


    He kicked him in the head multiple times when he was on the ground. For murder you need to have the intent to kill or cause serious injury (Check), and the actus rea of that actually occuring (Check).


  • #8
    staker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,677 ✭✭✭staker


    Tragic all round tbh.


  • #9
    Spunge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭Spunge


    Kind of feel bad for the chap, constantly junkies coming into that place pissing off everyone, this probably sent him over the edge.


  • #10
    freddiek
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 345 ✭✭freddiek


    people often complain about lenient sentencing, theone handed out here seems entirely correct


  • #11
    omahaid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭omahaid


    Andy-Pandy wrote: »
    If you kick people in the head when they are on the ground and they die, it is murder, end of.

    Is it now...

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/clare-manslaughter-pair-jailed-for-a-further-two-years-3150533.html

    Manslaughter conviction for these guys. I've given up on the irish justice system, no justice anymore.


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  • #12
    Irishcrx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Irishcrx


    It's murder , he kicked him in the head multple times while he was on the ground. It's not like he punched him and he hit his head on the curb or fell back in front of a car, that's manslaughter. This is murder and he deserves what he gets.


  • #13
    saiint
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭saiint


    he kicked him in the head repeatedly
    clearly trying to cause serious injury
    you on drugs OP? your a judge arnt you...


  • #14
    crusher000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 649 ✭✭✭crusher000


    The last straw, but he is now paying dearly for a moment of loss of control. If we all reacted this way the world wouldn't be that great a place.


  • #15
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,651 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    Someone commits a scummy act and gets a lenient sentence - After Hours moans about the Irish justice system.

    Someone commits a scummy act and gets a hefty sentence - After Hours moans about the Irish justice system.

    Can't win, can they?


  • #16
    Andy-Pandy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭Andy-Pandy


    omahaid wrote: »
    Is it now...

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/clare-manslaughter-pair-jailed-for-a-further-two-years-3150533.html

    Manslaughter conviction for these guys. I've given up on the irish justice system, no justice anymore.

    Wow, that is a serious case of misjustice, i would agree with you there and if this thread had been about that I would have said that they should have gotten charged with murder. This is a tragic case, and i feel sorry for the shop keeper, but its still a just sentence.


  • #17
    aaronjumper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,128 ✭✭✭✭aaronjumper


    El Weirdo wrote: »
    Someone commits a scummy act and gets a lenient sentence - After Hours moans about the Irish justice system.

    Someone commits a scummy act and gets a hefty sentence - After Hours moans about the Irish justice system.

    Can't win, can they?

    No justice in after hours anymore.


  • #18
    mitosis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭mitosis


    Manslaughter, victim's medication was a "contributory factor in his death" which Zhao could not have known. He did not attempt to kill him.


  • #19
    omahaid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭omahaid


    Andy-Pandy wrote: »
    Wow, that is a serious case of misjustice, i would agree with you there and if this thread had been about that I would have said that they should have gotten charged with murder. This is a tragic case, and i feel sorry for the shop keeper, but its still a just sentence.

    There's so many inconsistent sentences from the Irish judiciary I really have little faith. Do you really think a murder conviction is right in this case? It really strikes me as a manslaughter act.


  • #20
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    70c or 7 million euro, you don't kick another human being to death.

    It really is that simple.


  • #21
    Remmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Remmy


    mitosis wrote: »
    Manslaughter, victim's medication was a "contributory factor in his death" which Zhao could not have known. He did not attempt to kill him.

    I'm not 100% but I think this principle applies in criminal law also. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull


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  • #22
    DARK-KNIGHT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,366 ✭✭✭✭DARK-KNIGHT


    absolutely shocking and disgusting act to kick someone never mind kicking someone in the head..

    shopowner or worker deserved the sentence. how could anyone think a manslaughter verdict would suffice.

    that man had 2 kids, will the family ever get over this? highly unlikely tbh.

    shopowner said junkies or drinkers basically pushed him to it ffs. no junkie deserves to be kicked to death.


  • #23
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    El Weirdo wrote: »
    Someone commits a scummy act and gets a lenient sentence - After Hours moans about the Irish justice system.

    Someone commits a scummy act and gets a hefty sentence - After Hours moans about the Irish justice system.

    Can't win, can they?

    It's almost like the hooting shitflingers of AH should never, ever be listened to.


  • #24
    Andy-Pandy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭Andy-Pandy


    omahaid wrote: »
    There's so many inconsistent sentences from the Irish judiciary I really have little faith. Do you really think a murder conviction is right in this case? It really strikes me as a manslaughter act.

    I do.

    If his death had resulted from one punch, or he had slipped and hit his head I would have no problem in a manslaughter conviction, because it would have been accidental. But the article says that he kicked him multiple times in his head, neck and back, i can only presume that the victim was on the ground at this stage and not defending himself.


  • #25
    Bradidup
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 586 ✭✭✭Bradidup


    Being Chinese did not help with the verdict. Most of these guys are experts at Karate, kick boxing and that kind of stuff.


  • #26
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,092 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    scumbags who kick innocent teacher to death out of the blue -> manslaughter

    shopowner who kicks scumbag, who hit him first, to death -> murder

    Does not compute...

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • #27
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Remmy wrote: »
    He kicked him in the head multiple times when he was on the ground. For murder you need to have the intent to kill or cause serious injury (Check), and the actus rea of that actually occuring (Check).

    It didn't say in the article how many times he was kicked in the head. Could of been once, we don't know. In other cases people have been punched in the head without their head been knocked on the ground and died, yet the attackers have got manslaughter and hardly any jailtime.


  • #28
    eyeball kid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭eyeball kid


    El Weirdo wrote: »
    Someone commits a scummy act and gets a lenient sentence - After Hours moans about the Irish justice system.

    Someone commits a scummy act and gets a hefty sentence - After Hours moans about the Irish justice system.

    Can't win, can they?

    I know not every case is the same but a bit of consistency would be nice.


  • #29
    not yet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Nice guy by all accounts, still he's looking at 15 years in the big house.


  • #30
    Lollipops23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    Much as I think he deserves to get sent down, I have some small sympathy for the guy- he would have taken all manner of (probably racist) abuse and threats from the dregs of society over a long period of time.

    I mean, killing someone over 70c is just insane, but why would someone go to the hassle of arguing over 70c in the first place? It's a scummy thing to do to try and dupe someone out of their living.

    He still didn't deserve the horrifically violent death her got though.


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  • #31
    Remmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Remmy


    gurramok wrote: »
    It didn't say in the article how many times he was kicked in the head. Could of been once, we don't know. In other cases people have been punched in the head without their head been knocked on the ground and died, yet the attackers have got manslaughter and hardly any jailtime.

    It said he was kicked a number of times in the back, head and back. Your right though it doesn't explicitly say how many times he was kicked in the head, that was my mistake.


This discussion has been closed.
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