Fingerprinting people entering and leaving the country?

Don't the government already fingerprint asylum seekers?

But I dunno about the whole fingerprinting people who enter Ireland idea. Its just one step closer for the government to have every Irish persons print. Which ... screw that!

Imagine if we were all on record and you goto the supermarket one day. You pick up a bottle of wine to look at it and put it back down. Someone else comes along and buys it. Something terrible happens to them. They get killed. Police do the usual forensic and your nice fresh print turns up on the bottle. You'd be brought in as a potential suspect to explain yourself.

I know it sounds like an conspiracy theory :pac: But can you really see it not happening?

Computer says you is dead, you it going to happen because the person entering the data will a minimum wage monkey

Airports already scan your bags etc to see if that have drug residue.

Why if you are comfortable scanning your bags are you not comfortable with them running criminal checks on you?

who the fug wrote: »

Computer says you is dead, you it going to happen because the person entering the data will a minimum wage monkey

What the hell was that???

keelanj69 wrote: »

Would they really bring you in? Along with the postman, the guy who stacks the shelves at the shop and the person who lifted that heavy object into the car? All of these peoples prints would be all over the place and you dont hear too much of postman being dragged before the courts because his prints are inside your house.

Thats because who has the prints of the average postman? in fact, who has my print, your print etc

Thats the thing. if the government had everyone on a database it would change police work up. As it stands with a crime such as a murder police investigate and question all possible suspects and people close to the victim. Crossing each name off the list as they investigate.

Lets say we live in a society where every print can be instantly cross checked. Your nice little print on the wine bottle would mean you would get an unwanted questioning by police to explain yourself. Remember, i say on a bottle of wine and not a pack of chips :P

DNA profile should be took from all over the age of 18 and under 70. Also they should provide a life long police record/ background check as several rape cases here have been by foreign nationals.

As it's already been pointed out it's impossible at this stage as the technology to do it fast isn't there yet. Your also talking about a huge investment to do what your passport does anyway.

Passports can be scanned and checked against a database as is, it's a quick and reliable system used by most countries.

I don't carry any ID on me, my drivers license is in the car where it's needed and passport is usually kept in a safe place. I've never carried an age card because I don't need one.

The vast majority of people aren't criminals and are only trying to get from A to B. Your talking about making travel even more of a hassle and way more expensive to catch the very rare and mostly imaginary bad guys.

gurramok wrote: »

The US took my fingerprints on entry to the USA, why don't Ireland do it on entry to Ireland? I don't feel like a criminal either, its actually a way of letting the US know i'm an upstanding citizen

I have never been in trouble with any police force in any Jurisdiction. Yet walking though these types of borders always make me feel like they think I am a terroist or I did something wrong that I do not know of. Does it solves their problems of security or self insecurity? A big fat NO. They (the terroists & criminals) just use other methods to achieve including getting around the borders barriers to achieve their aims while the decent folks causing no body any problems have to deal with the hassle and feel miserable and feel like they are getting punished and harassed by border guards adding extra unwanted stress to travellers and creating false positive for border guards and airport police when reading people.

Every time I come back and see the Garda in Immigration, I know I am home and feel safe. It is not though the Immigration Guards are useless or care less about security. They are a lot more good nature about the Job and be switch into serious mode when necessary. They know travellers are tired and not they just want to get home or to their hotel. They for the most part knows what a joke is or laugh at some humorous events and most importantly not armed therefore no potential injuries for any passengers or other civilians and the perpetrator of violence (under false sense of confidence) can get past without causing much injuries to others and can be chased down by other guards or Emergency Response Unit in a safer location outside the airport. I am against having fingerprinting for leaving and entering Ireland, The queues are bad enough and It is a waste of money that we cannot afford, as criminals will use other means getting across the border in similar methods like they get drugs in. There is plenty of facial software recognising wanted personnel and that software is getting better. Forget fingerprinting it was never proven scientificly. There was never any proper study found that everybody have different fingerprint. A Lawyer (A Former US Army explosive expert) In Portland US had the same fingerprint to one Bomb making Terrorist that was responsible for Madrid bombings.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5053007/ns/us_news-security/t/fbi-apologizes-lawyer-held-madrid-bombings/
The case began when FBI fingerprint examiners in Quantico, Va., searched for possible matches to a digital image of a fingerprint found on a bag of detonators the day of the Spanish bombings on March 11.

The system returned 15 possible matches, including prints belonging to Mayfield, on file from a 1984 burglary arrest in Wichita, Kan., when Mayfield was a teenager.

Three separate FBI examiners narrowed the identification to Mayfield, according to Robert Jordan, the FBI agent in charge of Oregon. A court-appointed fingerprint expert agreed.

Spain doubted any connection
The FBI maintained its certainty even as Spanish authorities said by mid-April that the original image of the fingerprint taken directly from the bag did not match Mayfield’s, Wax said.

Last week, Spanish authorities said the fingerprints of an Algerian man were on the bag. Jordan said FBI examiners flew to Spain, viewed the original print pattern of the fingerprint on paper, and agreed that it was not Mayfield’s.

As additional evidence in support of Mayfield’s arrest, the FBI pointed to Mayfield’s attendance at a local mosque, his advertising legal services in a publication owned by a man suspected to have links to terrorism, and a telephone call his wife placed to a branch of an Islamic charity with suspected terrorist ties.

They also noted that Mayfield represented a man in a child custody case who later pleaded guilty to conspiring to help al-Qaida and the Taliban fight U.S. forces in Afghanistan.

According to court documents, FBI agents began their surveillance of Mayfield two weeks after the attacks in the Spanish capital. Under a provision of the U.S. Patriot Act, they entered his home without his knowledge — but aroused the family’s suspicion by bolting the wrong lock on their way out and leaving a footprint on the rug that didn’t match any family members.
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During a later raid, FBI agents took Mayfield’s computers, modem, safe deposit key, assorted papers, as well as copies of the Quran and what they classified as “Spanish documents” — apparently Spanish homework by one of Mayfield’s sons.

http://forejustice.org/wc/mayfield/jd/brandon_mayfield_jd_issue25.htm
Fingerprint Analysis Is A Pseudoscientific Art

Thus an obvious question is: How can fingerprint analysis be so unreliable that three FBI experts and an independent analyst could mistake the print of a mild mannered family man with an expired passport who has never been to Spain, for that of an international terrorist? The answer lies in understanding the foundation of fingerprint theory rests on three assumptions - two that are scientifically unproven and one that has been empirically disproven.

The first assumption - that fingerprints are unique – has been accepted on blind faith by courts in the U. S. since 1910. 20 Fingerprint uniqueness has not been scientifically proven, and it may be unprovable. It was noted e.g., in a 2001 book co-edited by renowned forensic scientist Henry C. Lee, “From a statistical viewpoint, the scientific foundation for fingerprint individuality is incredibly weak.” 21

The best way to punish criminals is to target their money. Do not punish the rest of us because of your insecurity.

Every time I get fingerprinted in the Airport for travelling to the US, I feel like I am going to be pounded on by US Border Patrol for some stupid computer mistake of someone's mis-programming, or what some programmers call it an "extra undocumented feature of the program".

I left the UK via Heathrow recently returning home here, there seems to be massive increase in border control there already. The additional iris scan and two checks for passport took an extra 17 minutes to clear. There was no option to avoid this collection of personal data although the staff and the process itself were fine really. While I still had time to make my flight it wasn't exactly comfortable. There are signs next to the data collection terminals advising that all personal data is destroyed after 24 hours. The same thing if done here would not provide the benefits outlined in your post if it can only be retained for this period. Issues with data protection would be one serious stumbling point. Who can access it? how would it be stored? Imagine the mess it would cause if the database containing the data wasn't protected properly and leaked on the net? Fingerprints and iris scans are not like a credit card you can cancel, and have replaced.

The idea is sound but the solution would need lots of attention.

Tazium wrote: »

The additional iris scan and two checks for passport took an extra 17 minutes to clear.

I went through Gatwick recently and they have some new face scanning system. It couldn't read my face I spent about 3 minutes and eventually the guy just had to let me through even though the scanner said no. These systems are to unreliable at the moment but I suppose the only way to make them work is to implement them and deal with the problems as they arise. Even so I'd let other countries do that testing and in 5 or 10 years when they actually work we can implement them.

Personally I'd be in favour of ID Cards and Iris scanning at airports.

ResearchWill wrote: »

That's my exact point, with out information how can I or any one else know this is a good idea, before I give up more of my freedoms I would like to know why. If someone comes up with solid information then I will think about it. But at the moment I can not say its a good idea because I don't even think there is a problem and no one has shown that there is.

ScumLord wrote: »

As it's already been pointed out it's impossible at this stage as the technology to do it fast isn't there yet. Your also talking about a huge investment to do what your passport does anyway.

Passports can be scanned and checked against a database as is, it's a quick and reliable system used by most countries.

I don't carry any ID on me, my drivers license is in the car where it's needed and passport is usually kept in a safe place. I've never carried an age card because I don't need one.

The vast majority of people aren't criminals and are only trying to get from A to B. Your talking about making travel even more of a hassle and way more expensive to catch the very rare and mostly imaginary bad guys.

At any given time there are between 400 & 600 foreigners locked up in this country - and they're not imaginary!! That's just the ones that have been caught so most likely than not there's a lot more than that floating around undetected. Considering that it costs roughly €70k a year to house each prisoner would it not make more sense to try to stop them getting in here in the first place.

old hippy wrote: »

When I half read statements like this, tarring all foreigners as scumbags/criminals; I think to myself - "can the proponents of such bilge get any more right wing in their outlook?" The answer is always; "yes, sadly".

FYP. :rolleyes: