Mum's shock as dad who hit toddler avoids jail

upstairs for coffee · 03-12-2012 05:51PM

Excellent, so punch a kid and permanently damage his hearing and get off scott free.

Great justice served there

Super-Rush · 03-12-2012 05:55PM

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

Was the judge right or wrong ?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/mums-shock-as-dad-who-hit-toddler-avoids-jail-3312345.html

Any chance of an opinion yourself?

hatrickpatrick · 03-12-2012 05:59PM

F*ck our justice system. Literally f*ck it. There's absolutely nothing right about it anymore.

I can't remember the last time I read of a court case and actually agreed with the outcome.

Spiritual · 03-12-2012 05:59PM

lukesmom wrote: »

We don't know the full circumstances, the child might have asked for it, you know how toddlers can be. And as another poster quite rightly said the child may in fact have been a ginger so let's leave the hounding until we know the full story

You are a funny so and so. This place needs more humour and less outrage.

Ginger's however should be a no go as should trouble making 2 year olds.

Spiritual · 03-12-2012 06:01PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

F*ck our justice system. Literally f*ck it. There's absolutely nothing right about it anymore.

I can't remember the last time I read of a court case and actually agreed with the outcome.

In the court they generally get the full story.
In the media they generally don't.

The gap causes the outrage at the sentencing or lack of.

hatrickpatrick · 03-12-2012 06:02PM

tritium wrote: »

As another poster pointed out, the judge in this case has far more of the facts than any if us! I would note that it's not uncommon to see comparable behaviour from many mums (in particular) and dads in any main street in Ireland and no-one here seems particularly outraged.

Maybe they should be and it might stop happening???

I'd also note that given the parents are estranged, there is likely to be more going on under the surface that is detailed in a (slightly sensational) newspaper report.

What does that have to do with it? An adult punched a child in the face and severely injured him. There's nothing else relevant here. Regardless of "mitigating circumstances" I honestly don't see any possible case in which someone shouldn't go to prison for this.

hatrickpatrick · 03-12-2012 06:03PM

Spiritual wrote: »

In the court they generally get the full story.
In the media they generally don't.

The gap causes the outrage at the sentencing or lack of.

Right, so in this case a guy punched a child in the face and injured him. What facts could possibly we be missing which would absolve this? NOTHING absolves an act of cruelty like this. Nothing.

Spiritual · 03-12-2012 06:05PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Right, so in this case a guy punched a child in the face and injured him. What facts could possibly we be missing which would absolve this? NOTHING absolves an act of cruelty like this. Nothing.

In this case it would appear so.

hatrickpatrick · 03-12-2012 06:07PM

Spiritual wrote: »

In this case it would appear so.

What makes you say that? Given how often this kind of thing happens, is it not far more likely that either our courts are f*cked or our prisons are so overcrowded that they'll look for any excuse to let people off?

charlemont · 03-12-2012 06:20PM

You can quiet clearly see the trend in which violent and/or sexual offender's before the courts are being treated quiet leniently.

Spiritual · 03-12-2012 06:22PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

What makes you say that?

I am agreeing with you.

Duggy747 · 03-12-2012 06:29PM

He'd get a harsher sentence if he battered a dog.

Jezek · 03-12-2012 08:39PM

upstairs for coffee wrote: »

Excellent, so punch a kid and permanently damage his hearing and get off scott free.

Great justice served there

Was the hearing damage ? I thought it was cartilaginous damage (cauliflower ear)

Luckycharms_74 · 04-12-2012 12:20AM

Super-Rush wrote: »

Any chance of an opinion yourself?

It shows our justice system is a fcuking joke. A €100 fine and a 12 month "keep the peace" is laughable. It was assault. It should carry a jail term. If he did it to his own child he will do it to any one. For all we know there could have been violence towards the ex wife as well. I just hope that he is in treatment programmes now to control his problems.

hatrickpatrick · 04-12-2012 12:29AM

Not to in any way dismiss genuine mental health problems, but I also find it inconceivable that so many parents who do utterly evil things to their children get off completely scott free on the grounds of mental problems. It almost seems like there's an issue in society where every time someone attacks their kids, people react by saying "No one in their right mind could possibly do that, therefore it MUST be some form of insanity". Sorry, but some people in this world are just not nice people and should be dealt with accordingly.

Again, not wanting to dismiss genuine mental issues, but at this stage every time I hear of such a case I wait for the inevitable insanity plea, and it seems highly unlikely that EVERYONE who attacks a child is just ill and in need of psychiatric treatment.
of them are in need of a very, very hard kick up the arse instead.

Laneyh · 04-12-2012 12:40AM

It seems ridiculously lenient and even though the judge mentions the man is taking steps to control his drinking and anger how can we trust a guy that punches a two year old in the head? Even for the man's own sake he needed a tougher sentencing there and some help in rehabilitating.

Shockingly lax of the judge

Mountainsandh · 04-12-2012 12:49AM

This case is publicized and so we hear about it and find the sentence lenient, but I guess the judge would see on a regular basis cases of reoccuring beatings going on in families, and considered this one a one off. From a judge's perspective, it would probably make sense to punish this less than a reoffending, incestuous and violent father, for example.

It's heart breaking.
For a start, that man shouldn't have been drinking "on the job", so to speak, or certainly not to the extent where it would affect his ability to deal with the kids.

meoklmrk91 · 04-12-2012 12:50AM

Don't care what the circumstances were, he's a bastard, that woman must be much better at keeping her cool than me, my kid and it would have me up in court. Would loose my mind! What a disgusting, vile thing to do to a defenceless child.

hatrickpatrick · 04-12-2012 01:04AM

Mountainsandh wrote: »

This case is publicized and so we hear about it and find the sentence lenient, but I guess the judge would see on a regular basis cases of reoccuring beatings going on in families, and considered this one a one off. From a judge's perspective, it would probably make sense to punish this less than a reoffending, incestuous and violent father, for example.

So essentially, this hideous crime got no punishment because others commit more serious crimes...?

Mountainsandh · 04-12-2012 08:23AM

Yes. I'm on your side, and I think that's wrong too.

Splendour · 04-12-2012 08:42AM

Mountainsandh wrote: »

It's heart breaking.
For a start, that man shouldn't have been drinking "on the job", so to speak, or certainly not to the extent where it would affect his ability to deal with the kids.

Exactly-if he was that gone with alcohol he should have been charged with being drunk whilst minding minors.

Fat lot of good the recent children's referendum did for this kid...

up for anything · 04-12-2012 09:00AM

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

I think they mentioned autism because autistic children are supposedly more difficult to take care of than children without autism. I have a nephew who has autism and is usually very well behaved, apart from a very occasional tantrum. Even then it's not as bad as I see a lot of children having in shops all the time..

I have two friends with autistic children and their every waking minute is taken up with containing their children and trying to keep to routine to head off any 'unreasonable' behaviour. It can be like walking through a mine field at times. It is a 24/7 job and I don't know how they keep going especially when you add other children into the mix. Add Austism to the terrible twos and you have an explosive mix. There are so many different levels on the Autism spectrum.

The father should be shot! Take a look at at a two year old and how tiny they are (little chicken like bones) and to put one in the position of having to take a solid punch. It doesn't bear thinking about. :mad:

krk · 05-12-2012 12:34PM

I followed this case closely and was in court during his sentencing. This was a total injustice to this child. I don't feel the judge understood the severity of the crime and from what i gather there was an existing pattern of violence. He attended a spousal abuse programme which would suggest alot more was going on there.

In regards to his drinking. He attended an assessment but stated he is still drinking but only socially.

The justice system failed this child and protected the father in this case.
This lenient sentence screams volumes about this country. It says that we as a society accept that it is ok to abuse our children.

That judge is nothing short of a disgrace.

reginald · 05-12-2012 01:33PM

Thats why you should never drink around children

SEPT 23 1989 · 05-12-2012 02:01PM

reginald wrote: »

Thats why you should never drink around children

I have had a few drinks around my kids and never punched them

its not the drink it the gobsh1te consuming it

Madam_X · 05-12-2012 09:38PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Not to in any way dismiss genuine mental health problems, but I also find it inconceivable that so many parents who do utterly evil things to their children get off completely scott free on the grounds of mental problems. It almost seems like there's an issue in society where every time someone attacks their kids, people react by saying "No one in their right mind could possibly do that, therefore it MUST be some form of insanity". Sorry, but some people in this world are just not nice people and should be dealt with accordingly.

Again, not wanting to dismiss genuine mental issues, but at this stage every time I hear of such a case I wait for the inevitable insanity plea, and it seems highly unlikely that EVERYONE who attacks a child is just ill and in need of psychiatric treatment.
of them are in need of a very, very hard kick up the arse instead.

I just don't get this argument - it implies there are people who are just released because of mere unsubstantiated speculation that they're mentally unstable. When has it happened that anyone has got off scott-free because what they did was so terrible that they could only have been nuts? If they plead insanity or if they're deemed unstable, they're assessed by a psychiatrist, and if they're diagnosed as mentally ill they don't get off scott-free - they're locked up.
People saying "Ah they must be insane" doesn't mean the jury and judge will say "Right, that's it, let 'em off."
And while I believe there are sane people capable of horrific stuff, doesn't mean I'm definitely right - maybe they aren't completely well? How can it be known until they're assessed? Saying it could be because of mental illness isn't in any way mitigating it, it's just a very plausible possibility.

Re lenient sentences: do people really believe a judge just plucks it from the sky? There are existing statutes which are complied with - these are what need to be reformed.

darced · 05-12-2012 09:59PM

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Madam_X · 05-12-2012 10:08PM

Neither of them are acceptable...

darced · 05-12-2012 10:16PM

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Madam_X · 05-12-2012 10:22PM

I honestly haven't witnessed anything like that. Not saying it doesn't happen, but I'd be surprised if it were very frequent. Horrible. :-/

Mum's shock as dad who hit toddler avoids jail

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