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Fingerprinting people entering and leaving the country?

  • 03-12-2012 08:56PM
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 543 ✭✭✭


    As the thread title says, should people be fingerprinted upon entering and leaving the country, regardless of citizenship?

    Here are my reasons.

    Criminals who (are presumably fingerprinted by police by electronic means) will be seen leaving the country if they are remanded on bail, although their passport is often seized during this, they could easily flee to the UK with a driving license, other ID, or if they are citizens of other countries, they can use another passport.

    If a person is wanted in Ireland (for, just say, child maintenance reasons), when they re-enter Ireland they will be apprehended when their fingerprints "set off alarm bells".

    If someone is suspicially entering and leaving the country they can easily be tracked.

    This can also be used to prevent identity theft, illegal immigration and welfare fraud (say, people wh might be claiming welfare in Timbuktu and back in Ireland).

    In case someone loses or "loses" their passport or ID in transit, they can merely scan their fingerprint and their photo will come up on screen.

    If a dossier is kept of every Irish citzen's fingerprints of foreigners' fingerprints (inlcuding British) in Ireland, if a crime is commited, then the perpetrator can quickly, efficiently and easily be tracked.

    I am aware that the open border with NI will pose a problem, if the UK don't impose such border restrictions on people then they can easily fly to Belfast and then get the train / bus / car to the Republic, unless we keep a dossier with the UK.

    So what do y'all think.

    An in before someone just responds with "NO" or the PC brigade and Liberals responding with "it's an invasion of our privacy".

    So, Discuss.

    Should people be printed upon entry (Iris scan / fingerprint ) 136 votes

    Yes
    0%
    ufucycufufufuvuf 1 vote
    No
    99%
    joolsveerSeanehgurramokkaimeraRedshiftRabiesBigConKalelhardCopyIdbatterimFGRqzminotourmoneymadBrokenArrowsRoyalMarinePaulKKhomerjay2005TheIrishGroverthebman 135 votes


«134

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 523 ✭✭✭coonecb1


    No
    Yes - we should keep proper records of who enters the country.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    It will only be a matter of time whether you like it or not. :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Hande hoche!


    Wouldn't be in favour of it. I already feel like I have four pounds of Semtex on me merely going through metal detectors at airports.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    Fingerprints? This is 2012 not 1912.

    Use the same method marketing companies and the CIA use. Track them through the apps and games on their mobiles.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,408 ✭✭✭bbam


    No
    Definitely..
    Fingerprints and DNA samples.
    As should every citizen in the state be compelled to supply the same. I also feel that ID cards should be compulsory to carry at all times.

    If you have nothing to hide then what's the problem...

    I know people will argue invasion of privacy and civil liberties, but that argument doesn't make sense, its not like the DNA sample or finger prints are taken in public with an anal probe !!

    Everyone should be given 2 years to comply or face fines.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,351 ✭✭✭NegativeCreep


    Ah now. Something about this idea doesn't sit right with me. Being made feel like a criminal before you do anything.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    bbam wrote: »
    Definitely..
    Fingerprints and DNA samples.
    As should every citizen in the state be compelled to supply the same. I also feel that ID cards should be compulsory to carry at all times.

    If you have nothing to hide then what's the problem...

    I know people will argue invasion of privacy and civil liberties, but that argument doesn't make sense, its not like the DNA sample or finger prints are taken in public with an anal probe !!

    Everyone should be given 2 years to comply or face fines.

    It's like this in the Netherlands and it's awful. If you want to walk your dog or go for a run you need to carry an ID card? **** that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭hardCopy


    No
    Why the hell not?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭Firefox11


    Do our current passports already not contain biometric data?? I thought they did??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    bbam wrote: »

    If you have nothing to hide then what's the problem...

    The implication is that you trust the thieving shysters who run the country & the ''judiciary'', which is just and old boys club.

    I don't. Nor should anyone else.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    No
    It's like this in the Netherlands and it's awful. If you want to walk your dog or go for a run you need to carry an ID card? **** that.

    I doubt it would make much difference. Most people have ID on them most of the time anyway, age card or drivers license. My age card is always in my wallet and my drivers license is always in my car. I would have no problem with a law making people carry ID on them at all times. I also think it would beneficial for everyones genome to be stored on a government database. They take a DNA sample at birth and it gets logged then its there forever. Solving murders and rapes would become A LOT easier. As well as other crimes. Sequencing human genomes is rapidly becoming cheaper but its still quite expensive so this might not be feasible for a few years yet.
    squod wrote: »
    The implication is that you trust the thieving shysters who run the country & the ''judiciary'', which is just and old boys club.

    I don't. Nor should anyone else.

    This attitude is becoming so tiresome.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    No
    The US took my fingerprints on entry to the USA, why don't Ireland do it on entry to Ireland? I don't feel like a criminal either, its actually a way of letting the US know i'm an upstanding citizen ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,162 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    bbam wrote: »
    Definitely..
    Fingerprints and DNA samples.
    As should every citizen in the state be compelled to supply the same. I also feel that ID cards should be compulsory to carry at all times.

    If you have nothing to hide then what's the problem...

    I know people will argue invasion of privacy and civil liberties, but that argument doesn't make sense, its not like the DNA sample or finger prints are taken in public with an anal probe !!

    Everyone should be given 2 years to comply or face fines.

    Why would you require an ID card if they have your DNA? The point of an ID card is to prove that you are who you claim you are, if you're DNA is in the system then they know who you are.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,199 ✭✭✭Shryke


    gurramok wrote: »
    The US took my fingerprints on entry to the USA, why don't Ireland do it on entry to Ireland? I don't feel like a criminal either, its actually a way of letting the US know i'm an upstanding citizen ;)

    No it's not. It's taking personal information from you and cataloging you as a potential criminal.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭The Idyl Race


    Ugh, there's always someone who loves the idea of the State knowing everything about us.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    No
    Del2005 wrote: »
    Why would you require an ID card if they have your DNA? The point of an ID card is to prove that you are who you claim you are, if you're DNA is in the system then they know who you are.

    If a garda stops you on the street and asks you who you are having your DNA on record isn't going to help him know if you're telling the truth. Unlsss they have some method of analysing your DNA on the spot and comparing it to the genomes they have on file. ID cards are way more practical.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,650 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    No
    bbam wrote: »
    Definitely..
    Fingerprints and DNA samples.
    As should every citizen in the state be compelled to supply the same. I also feel that ID cards should be compulsory to carry at all times.

    If you have nothing to hide then what's the problem....

    That is the dumbest argument that your camp make. It's absolutely retarded. Of course you have something to fear from the government having DNA and fingerprints on file for everyone. What if they take a dislike to someone and need him out of the way? Do you think governments aren't above using what they have to plant evidence?

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

    Look at TSA in the US, how many terrorists have they realistically stopped? Yet, you can't take a piss in an airport without 20 camera's catching you.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,300 ✭✭✭✭Seaneh


    No
    I think all non-citizens should have to provide an iris scan and photo when entering, like when non-us citizens fly to the states.

    We should know exactly who is entering our country and when. All Airports and ferry ports should have these measures.

    We should be sharing the information with the authorities in Northern Ireland as well, seeing as we have an open boarder with them, anyone could enter either state and hide in the other.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    No
    A few years ago I became aware of an incident in my area.
    A man who came here from eastern Europe was caught filming a young girl on his phone while she was in a public toilet of a shopping centre. He had his phone held under the partition and the girl was unaware of it. A security man and a cleaner had suspicions as he had been hanging around outside so they watched him and followed him into the toilet catching him in the act. Film on his camera which was seized by the Garda showed that he had been at the same thing in other places in the north east.
    It transpired that this man had done time in his own country for sexually abusing a child and had came here after he was released just like Larry Murphy left here and went to Holland on his release.

    I know of this story because I was told by the father of the young girl. He would not go to court as the girl would be terrified if she had to give evidence and anyway she was unaffected and didn't really know what was happening at the time.
    Apparently the man returned to his own country that same week after having his flat raided by the Garda and his employer informed of what he was doing.

    My point is that people like this should be fingerprinted so that the authorities of any country they visit become aware of their past.
    I would have no problem with being fingerprinted if I visited another country.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Neewbie_noob


    No
    A few years ago I became aware of an incident in my area.
    A man who came here from eastern Europe was caught filming a young girl on his phone while she was in a public toilet of a shopping centre. He had his phone held under the partition and the girl was unaware of it. A security man and a cleaner had suspicions as he had been hanging around outside so they watched him and followed him into the toilet catching him in the act. Film on his camera which was seized by the Garda showed that he had been at the same thing in other places in the north east.
    It transpired that this man had done time in his own country for sexually abusing a child and had came here after he was released just like Larry Murphy left here and went to Holland on his release.

    I know of this story because I was told by the father of the young girl. He would not go to court as the girl would be terrified if she had to give evidence and anyway she was unaffected and didn't really know what was happening at the time.
    Apparently the man returned to his own country that same week after having his flat raided by the Garda and his employer informed of what he was doing.

    My point is that people like this should be fingerprinted so that the authorities of any country they visit become aware of their past.
    I would have no problem with being fingerprinted if I visited another country.

    Hear, hear. If Ireland had a dossier of fingerprints, then when this guy tried to leave (he would have ot scan again) then he would be stopped by the airport police.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,408 ✭✭✭bbam


    No
    Del2005 wrote: »
    Why would you require an ID card if they have your DNA? The point of an ID card is to prove that you are who you claim you are, if you're DNA is in the system then they know who you are.

    An ID card is useful in the street where DNA is more of an investigatory tool..

    I see the usual "i wouldn't trust them with my DNA" and "I don't want to feel like a criminal" stuff...
    Giving fingerprints or DNA samples doesn't mean your a criminal, so why should you feel like one, unless you actually have something to hide..

    This would make huge in-roads into solving crime..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    No
    Shryke wrote: »
    No it's not. It's taking personal information from you and cataloging you as a potential criminal.

    It ain't just me! Everyone who enters and leaves the States is fingerprinted, everyone is in the same boat. If you have nothing to hide like possibly 99.9% of people, its a non-issue.

    If I commit a serious crime in the States, at least tracking me down via fingerprinting will be justice for the victim, yes? Again, nothing wrong with that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    It can take any where from a few minutes to a few hours to match fingerprints depending on the number stored and the speed of the computer.

    At the moment Ireland uses a UK lab to anaylise DNA as we don't have the resources here, to the best of my knolowdge. So are we going to ask all tourists to wait in Dublin Airport for how ever long it needs to be sure they are not naughty.

    CSI is not real you do know that, what they do in seconds can take weeks in real life.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,408 ✭✭✭bbam


    No
    That is the dumbest argument that your camp make. It's absolutely retarded. Of course you have something to fear from the government having DNA and fingerprints on file for everyone. What if they take a dislike to someone and need him out of the way? Do you think governments aren't above using what they have to plant evidence?

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

    Look at TSA in the US, how many terrorists have they realistically stopped? Yet, you can't take a piss in an airport without 20 camera's catching you.

    I don't have " a camp ".
    And do you seriously think if some unethical arm of our government wanted you out of the way, not having your DNA on file isn't going to save you..
    But then again your tin foil hat is probably protection enough for your camp


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    No, why should I be treated like a criminal when I am not? Because I have nothing to hide? Because the US does it? Of course not. Maybe we should be all watched all the time in case we do something wrong, like a thought crime? Well if you have nothing to hide...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    No
    It can take any where from a few minutes to a few hours to match fingerprints depending on the number stored and the speed of the computer.

    At the moment Ireland uses a UK lab to anaylise DNA as we don't have the resources here, to the best of my knolowdge. So are we going to ask all tourists to wait in Dublin Airport for how ever long it needs to be sure they are not naughty.

    CSI is not real you do know that, what they do in seconds can take weeks in real life.

    Regardless of how long it takes it can also save time and effort.
    If an offender has left the country then the Garda would know where he went and not have to spend time searching the country looking for him. They could also alert the country he went to that he is now there.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    It's the thin end of the wedge. I see the old "if you have nothing to hide" has been trotted out. I don't like it but I submit to it when I go to the States.

    Surveillance states shouldn't be the norm. Nothing pc about that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,372 ✭✭✭kirving


    If you have nothing to hide.... is the worst argument ever.

    I'm not a criminal, but no way in hell will I carry ID everywhere I go just for the sake of it.

    Honestly, I don't really care about the odd criminal or two crossing our borders. Catching them is not worth the inconvenience for everyone else.

    As of now, most of the most dangerous criminals aren't even on the run because there's no arrest warrant. So you wouldn't catch them anyway. If the crime was serious enough to be arrested at tge airport, the Gardai should alread have caught them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    Regardless of how long it takes it can also save time and effort.
    If an offender has left the country then the Garda would know where he went and not have to spend time searching the country looking for him. They could also alert the country he went to that he is now there.

    Can you give figures of the number of criminal doing what you say. So when we invest millions or from past tract record billions in this scheme we know it is actually solving a problem.

    We can't stop cocaine comming into the country through our huge coast line how is finger printing and DNA from everyone going to stop people who don't want to be detected coming in by boat. Also the scheme will destroy our all ready fragile tourist economy. I know people who refuse to travel to the USA because of the security they employ, not criminals just people who would rather spend their money in a country that welcomes them as a honest person not a potentional criminal.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭Wabbit Ears


    No
    I wonder just how many of the NO camp are currently Gmail and Google chrome or apple Ipad/Iphone users who are blissfully unaware of their naivety!!


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