Astra 2F now to replace 2B INSTEAD of 1N - UNCONFIRMED

liamtech · 03-12-2012 04:00PM #1

Astra 2F will now replace Astra 2B @ 28.2 east within the next few weeks Astra 2B will then move to 19.2 east,

Astra 2E will replace Astra 1N @ 28.2 east in the 1st qtr of 2013 Astra 1N will then move to 19.2 east,

Astra 2G will replace Astra 2A in 1st qtr of 2014

From Digitalspy

Unconfirmed but it would seem 2F is not the intended replacement for the 1N spot beam - Interesting as i was 100% sure that it was to replace it this week with 1N moving to its originally intended place. Now apparently 1N to remain for now - Fine with me its signal is obviously very strong - but this is an odd move isnt it?

Speculation: The UK Spot beam of 2F which can be viewed at Satbeams and various other sites seems much narrower than previous satellites (2D and 1N). I know that this was the intention but is it possible they over shot the mark and made it far to narrow - Some reports on the DS Freesat forum suggested that users in northern Ireland and other island groups on the outskirts were having issues using the recommended dish size for their regions. I heard it mentioned but not confirmed that the signal along the fringes of the spot beam seemed to be fluctuating on an hourly basis. Perhaps it really is too narrow.. I know that users in these areas could of course replace there dishes with larger ones but from a contractual point of view, the beam should have been sufficient for the recommended dish sizes - I could never see a situation where sky would go around replacing dish sizes because of a satellite?

What do we reckon?

liamtech · 03-12-2012 04:31PM

Folks ive been searching the web for confirmation of this - havent found any as of yet so it could be rubbish -

watty · 04-12-2012 10:33AM

The horses mouth:

2E http://www.ses.com/4628866/astra-2e

2F http://www.ses.com/4628845/astra-2f

2G http://www.ses.com/4628824/astra-2g

2A to be relocated. 1 to 2 years design life left http://www.ses.com/4628782/astra-2a
2B to be relocated. 2 to 3 years design life left http://www.ses.com/4627942/astra-2b

2D, no change but only 2 to 3 years design life left. http://www.ses.com/4628803/astra-2d

Others
1N to be relocated to 19.2E http://www.ses.com/4628614/astra-1n
2C currently at 19.2E, to be relocated http://www.ses.com/4628719/astra-2c

Conclusion
2E, 2F, 2G to take over 2A, 2B and 1N at 28.2E, 1N to move to 19.2E and replace 2C
2D to remain at 28.2 for less critical content.
Destination of 2A and 2B unknown, but likely for non-critical application.

@liamtech: It all seems believable, more or less, looking at ses web site. Which Bird exactly replaces which is not exact as the new ones have more capacity.

SES-Astra originally "pinched" 28.2 from Eutelsat and they had a settlement. The position is for Germany & Eastern Europe (Prague is excellent), which is logical. It's poor elevation for UK and especially Ireland.

Now SES want to "grab" even more
http://www.ses.com/13222152/announcement
Another court case. Eutelsat believes this is their spectrum.

In the arbitral proceedings against SES, Eutelsat is seeking (i) a declaration that SES cannot use such frequency bands either from 28.5 degrees East or nearby orbital positions without breaching a 1999 intersystem coordination agreement between Eutelsat and SES, (ii) an order prohibiting SES from using the frequency bands above and (iii) an order on damages for such alleged breach of agreement and costs. SES strongly disagrees with Eutelsat’s position and will vigorously defend its right to use these frequencies from October 4, 2013 on the basis, among other things, that (i) Eutelsat’s rights to use these frequencies will expire on October 3, 2013, (ii) nothing in the 1999 agreement prevents SES from using these frequencies as of October 4, 2013, (iii) pursuant to a 2005 agreement with MB, SES has been granted the rights to use these frequencies and (iv) the filings pursuant to which MB’s license for these frequencies was issued by the Bundesnetzagentur have priority under the rules of the ITU.

The launches of ASTRA 2E and ASTRA 2G are scheduled for 2013 and 2014, respectively.

MBSnr · 04-12-2012 11:40AM

It also appears from testing and from initial press release SES put out about Astra 2F see here that it only has TPs from 10950 upwards.

LaunchQ4 2012
Downlink frequency
Ka-band:
18.85 – 22.00 GHz
Ku-band:
10.95 – 12.75 GHz

Being as Astra 1N has active TPs from 10700 upwards, it would seem that 2F cannot accommodate all the TPs currently on 1N, so a straight swap is unlikely...meaning Astra 2E has to be deployed at 28E before Astra 1N moves. However it's likely the TPs from 2B will be moved soon to 2F allowing 2B to move to 19E.

2B 2C - Hey you sunk my Battleship!

liamtech · 04-12-2012 06:37PM

Fascinating albeit confusing. I felt rather embarrassed yesterday when i posted this thread, as i couldnt find any evidence for the speculation - But i did find several posts on other forums that mentioned the discrepency of 2F not having enough transponders frequencies to cover all of 1N... For whatever reason (probably a lack of knowledge on my part) i was sure 2F was the intended replacement for 1N - a direct replacement - i will remain a spectator for the rest of this one i reckon

MBSnr · 04-12-2012 09:52PM

I think everyone figured it was a replacement until fairly recently. I'd read that there was a big need for a Sat to go to 19E and it was generally assumed to be 1N.... but them fella's in SES ,ooooh.. they had us fooled into thinking we knew...

The thing is it makes no odds to any of us anyhow in the UK spot beam! Why the hell we care and just waste our time idly speculating is beyond me sometimes....

But it doesn't stop us.

Alun · 05-12-2012 12:32PM

watty wrote: »

Others
1N to be relocated to 19.2E http://www.ses.com/4628614/astra-1n
2C currently at 19.2E, to be relocated http://www.ses.com/4628719/astra-2c

I wonder will this have any effect, positive or negative, on the signal strength for the (mainly German) channels I receive currently on 19.2E? I can pick them up OK here in Bray currently with a second offset LNBF on a 60cm dish aimed at 28.2E, which I realise is borderline, and I don't really want to have to upgrade to a bigger dish if I don't have to.

MBSnr · 05-12-2012 12:49PM

Alun wrote: »

I wonder will this have any effect, positive or negative, on the signal strength for the (mainly German) channels I receive currently on 19.2E? I can pick them up OK here in Bray currently with a second offset LNBF on a 60cm dish aimed at 28.2E, which I realise is borderline, and I don't really want to have to upgrade to a bigger dish if I don't have to.

Good question but I'd hazard a guess as positive. 1N has a very strong signal on the spot beam at present. Even if some of the channels move onto the spot beam when it is at 19E, it's known that the spot beam is 'wide/large', so I'd imagine you'll see the same signal at 19E on your current setup. Of course it isn't using the pan European beam at 28E (at least not according to kingofsat) so they 'could' reduce the spot beam power when all beams are in use at 19E.

So as always we won't know until the event....

MikeSat · 05-12-2012 10:43PM

This is my reading of why 2F did not take over from 1N at 28.2 East. A failure of D band TP on 2F. Let me explain, all Astra F,G,E. have UK spot beams,old Astra A & B satellites do not. So why would you not have all the frequencys on F,G,E,as these new satellites may have to cover for each other on UK spot beams as the old satellites burn out.?? Remember when 2D was urgently replaced by 1N ,which was on its way to 19.2E. Some people say it was done because it stated to give trouble.I would think this was probably true, otherwise they could have waited for 2F which was still on the ground. As we know 2F was due to be launched in Russia early 2013,but Ses sent 2F TO Central America for an early launch in late 2012,? to cover for an unexpected problem with 2D.? Finally i believe the plan has had to be changed to use 2E, UK/ IRL spot beam to cover all tp including D band. Nobody outside SES knows what goes on in space so i would take their press releases with a pinch of salt.

MBSnr · 07-12-2012 10:22AM

The only thing I'd say is that a Google search for the terms 'Astra 2F 10.95' in the date range 1/1/2012 to 1/7/2012 seems to indicate that it was always was going to have that TP Freq range

This [translated] post is from July before the Sat was launched

Capitan_Uncino
07.20.2012, 22:12:13
But hurry, because in less than 60 days to launch Astra 2F and then we attach all the worthy .... : Mad:
From the information in my possession, Astra 2F can not replace Astra 1N, why should the frequency 10.95 ~ 12.75 GHz practice would leave open the 10.70 ~ 10.95.

Apogee · 13-12-2012 11:22AM

Changes to BBC satellite transponders in 2013

BBC Blog wrote:

Wednesday 12 December 2012, 10:45

Alix Pryde
Director, BBC Distribution

I’m conscious that there is currently some speculation about the timing of forthcoming moves of BBC services between satellites and the reason for these changes. So I thought you would appreciate it if I set the record straight. The quick answer is that, as a result of SES’s fleet replacement programme, BBC services will move in the second half of 2013.

Regular readers will recall that in February 2012, SES retired Astra 2D and BBC services moved to a new temporary home on Astra 1N. Astra 1N is due to take up its permanent position in 2013 (19°East), so the BBC’s services will move to their new permanent home on Astra 2E (28.2°East) when that becomes operational. SES expects Astra 2E to launch in Q2 2013, so we currently expect to transition BBC services to it during summer 2013.

Some of you have also noticed that we commissioned a new transponder (which we call DSat8) in the autumn. It moved from its temporary home on Astra 1N to its permanent position on Astra 2F at the end of November 2012. DSat8 is still in a testing phase but in the coming months it will be used to broadcast BBC One Scotland HD and BBC One Wales HD as we complete the programme of providing all Nations programming in glorious HD. We’ll be publishing the details of DSat8 on our satellite reception advice page when the services launch.

I hope that clarifies the timings of moves and also that the moves relate to the SES fleet replacement programme, rather than any BBC strategy to change its footprint. That said, the new transponders do have a slightly different footprint, so I’ll explain a bit about that, and why the changes are no cause for concern for the BBC in our requirement to ensure that the BBC’s domestic services are readily accessible to people living in the UK.

What impact will all this have for the viewer?

In all likelihood the move of BBC services from 1N to their new permanent homes will have no impact on UK households. Astra 2E and 2F have the same, tighter but slightly more powerful UK spot beams which means that UK households should get a slightly stronger signal. So if you happened to be on the edge of coverage, you will hopefully get more reliable reception.

The overspill of the BBC’s services will be reduced so viewers outside the UK will find it even harder to receive them. I know that this causes unhappiness to some of you living outside the UK. However, it is entirely appropriate because the BBC domestic services are for people living in the UK only.

For viewers outside the UK, BBC Worldwide offers a number of channels which are available in various territories. These include BBC Entertainment, BBC Knowledge, BBC Lifestyle, CBeebies along with BBC World News throughout Europe and the rest of the world.

I hope the detail above helps you to understand a bit more about the changes coming in the second half of 2013 and the reason for them. Finally, thank you to SES for the lovely pictures of Astra 2F.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/aboutthebbc/posts/Changes-to-BBC-Satellite-transponders-in-2013

Astra 2F now to replace 2B INSTEAD of 1N - UNCONFIRMED

Comments