Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

K-9 · 29-11-2012 12:36AM

5starpool wrote: »

Did we not create loads of chances last season as well but fail to convert them? It's nearly the exact same thing as last year except people are defending the things the attacked last year, and attacing the things they defended.

Yep, largely in agreement.

Which is why I find it so hard to believe we'd be so much better under Dalglish so baffling.

Apparently Dalglish would have spent better, then you look at the donkeys on the pitch, plus Carroll on loan and Adam at Stoke.

Mr Alan · 29-11-2012 12:36AM

K-9 wrote: »

Complete Bullshyte Alan.

Rodgers won as many games as Kenny did at home during the second half of last season.

We were high up at Christmas, you telling us Kenny gave up on 4th at Xmas.

Cop yourself on. Kenny knew cup runs was all he had. Not good enough for a sustained run at 4th but put 10 men behind the ball like at City and you might win a Carling Cup.

Worked for Chelsea.

No he gave up on 4th after the Arsenal game.

missingtime · 29-11-2012 12:36AM

5starpool wrote: »

Did we not create loads of chances last season as well but fail to convert them? It's nearly the exact same thing as last year except people are defending the things the attacked last year, and attacing the things they defended.

Ding ding ding! ****ing bang on. The double standards around here is ****ing criminal.

Rafa played players in their "wrong position"
Dalglish played players in their "wrong position"
Hell, even Ferguson and Wenger play players in their "wrong position"

We don't have the players to play everyone in their right position at the moment. It's unfair to beat Rodgers with that stick.

passremarkable · 29-11-2012 12:38AM

5starpool wrote: »

Did we not create loads of chances last season as well but fail to convert them? It's nearly the exact same thing as last year except people are defending the things the attacked last year, and attacing the things they defended.

I think there is a massive difference in the way were playing with and without the ball,its systematic, its like everybody knows there roll, just dont think players have the ability/mentality to do it all the time, its not coming naturally to them to play like this.remember we are trying to play barca type ball, but them lads have been doing that since kids, the first thing the think of is keep the keep the ball,I think last year we had maybe 15/20 min spells in games where we would be peppering the goals and been unlucky where as this year its bit more structred just the players need to time to get it to stick in there head, and i dont think all our players can actually play this type of game, like its clearly not suiting gerrard at present,unfortuantely.I was at few games last year and two this year..its different when your looking at it in front of you..thats just my opinion

Mr Alan · 29-11-2012 12:38AM

missingtime wrote: »

Ding ding ding! ****ing bang on. The double standards around here is ****ing criminal.

Rafa played players in their "wrong position"
Dalglish played players in their "wrong position"
Hell, even Ferguson and Wenger play players in their "wrong position"

We don't have the players to play everyone in their right position at the moment. It's unfair to beat Rodgers with that stick.

There's a blindingly obvious reason why Rafa, Dalglish, Ferguson or Wenger might be given a bit of leeway from fans to play players out of position occassionally...

LuckyLloyd · 29-11-2012 12:40AM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

"I thought we were absolutely magnificent. I don't think we can come here and play any better than that," Rodgers said.

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/181450.html

Yuck, small time.

passremarkable · 29-11-2012 12:41AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Total bull****.

The players Rodgers inherited & the players he now has at his disposal should be doing a lot better than they are.

Fair to shirk blame to the players on a short term basis however we're approaching 30 games in charge, much of the 30 playing out in a pretty similar pattern. Focus should be shifted to the manager at this point.

I like Rodgers, I really hope he works out. He's a guy I could definitely believe in, in a romantic football fan kinda way. However when he arrived, a real concern was that he was a flavour of the month riding the crest of a wave he was not responsible for & could play a good PR game, everything we've seen so far this season seems to indicate that this may be the case, which is catastrophic news for the club.

the only problem i have with rogers is that the players dont seemed to be pumped coming onto the field, with other managers we had in recent years, even we were the inferior team,we would fight like dogs and have serious passion to get us over the line rather than a style of play as such.rogers just believes in systems and let your feet do the talking,just sometimes a players needs to be ate and kicked up the h*** to get moving

billybudd · 29-11-2012 12:42AM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

"I thought we were absolutely magnificent. I don't think we can come here and play any better than that," Rodgers said.

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/181450.html

Joint 12/13th with Norwich, dont think he should be mentioning the word magnificent tonight in any context, but then again am sure CH is building for the future too so who knows.

daithijjj · 29-11-2012 12:43AM

whatawaster wrote: »

Yeah . . . and last year Dalglish had loads of money to spend and was allowed to maintain a huge wage bill. This year, Rodgers hasn't

Last year Dalglish had Lucas for the first 14 games. This year Rodgers hasn't

Factors.

Theres clutching at straws and then theres this. If people can bring stuff like this out then why cant i, for example, bring out Kenny was beating the English champions and the European champions (Man Utd too) in the second half of last season to get us to two cup finals. Brendan cant even kill off Young boys at home. But that would be ridiculous to bring up no?.

Allowed to maintain a huge wage bill?, thats some disingenuous sh1t right there. Kenny took over a club that had actually made a profit on players for 2 and a half years, a club with Poulson and Jovanovic and a host of others (some still here). Many of them on huge wages, getting them out is very tough, Rodgers certainly has less of them than Kenny had.

whatawaster · 29-11-2012 12:43AM

Alan, you're completely glossing over what a massive rebuilding job Rodgers or any other Liverpool manager was faced with. At least he has faced up to it.

Our attack last season consisted of:
Suarez - top class
Carroll - not scoring goals, huge price tag and big wages
Maxi - old. wants to leave
Kuyt - old. not performing. wants to leave
Bellamy - old. crocked. wants to leave
Downing - big price tag. Useless.

Keeping things the same was never an option, but you pretend that we could have just tweaked things here and there and we'd be fine.

We wouldn't have been.

Look at the squad Rodgers inherited. Who were the reliable first teamers you know will put in a good performance week in week out?

Johnson.
Agger.
Lucas.
Maybe Skrtel.
Suarez

Lucas is injured and has been for most of the season. Bar Suarez the rest are defenders.

You can't compare the rebuilding Rodgers had/still has to do even with what Rafa had to do. Rafa inherited a much better team - one that had finished 4th the season before. Rodgers inherited a team that had finished an average of 7th 3 seasons in a row. Quality, reliable performers were few and far between.

Getting Liverpool back to the top is a job comparable to what Ferguson found himself faced with at United in the 80s. That's my honest opinion. It's a long, hard road and there is no point thinking otherwise.

Chucky the tree · 29-11-2012 12:43AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

No he gave up on 4th after the Arsenal game.

Doesn't say much for Kenny that from January 3rd until March 3rd(the Arsenal game) he could only manage 1 win from 6.

K-9 · 29-11-2012 12:44AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

There's a blindingly obvious reason why Rafa, Dalglish, Ferguson or Wenger might be given a bit of leeway from fans to play players out of position occassionally...

RAFA didn't waste money, neither did Ferguson or Wenger. NET SPEND STACKS UP FOR ALL OF THEM.

KENNY, OH MY GOOD FECKING GOD. MARTIN O'NEILL LOOKS ASTUTE.

YOU GET HOW BAD DALGLISH WAS NOW?

whatawaster · 29-11-2012 12:46AM

daithijjj wrote: »

Theres clutching at straws and then theres this. If people can bring stuff like this out then why cant i, for example, bring out Kenny was beating the English champions and the European champions (Man Utd too) in the second half of last season to get us to two cup finals. Brendan cant even kill off Young boys at home. But that would be ridiculous to bring up no?.

Allowed to maintain a huge wage bill?, thats some disingenuous sh1t right there. Kenny took over a club that had actually made a profit on players for 2 and a half years, a club with Poulson and Jovanovic and a host of others (some still here). Many of them on huge wages, getting them out is very tough, Rodgers certainly has less of them than Kenny had.

On your first point - we have practically played our second string (perhaps with the exception of Anzhi at home) for the entire group stage of the EL. It was a tough group and we haven't done badly all things considered. Our squad is quite thin.

I completely disagree on the second point and am too tired to debate the point with you again tonight. My view is that it doesn't matter if money had been spent prior to Rodgers coming in - it was spent dreadfully. We might as well have made a profit on players

passremarkable · 29-11-2012 12:46AM

whatawaster wrote: »

Alan, you're completely glossing over what a massive rebuilding job Rodgers or any other Liverpool manager was faced with. At least he has faced up to it.

Our attack last season consisted of:
Suarez - top class
Carroll - not scoring goals, huge price tag and big wages
Maxi - old. wants to leave
Kuyt - old. not performing. wants to leave
Bellamy - old. crocked. wants to leave
Downing - big price tag. Useless.

Keeping things the same was never an option, but you pretend that we could have just tweaked things here and there and we'd be fine.

We wouldn't have been.

Look at the squad Rodgers inherited. Who were the reliable first teamers you know will put in a good performance week in week out?

Johnson.
Agger.
Lucas.
Maybe Skrtel.
Suarez

Lucas is injured and has been for most of the season. Bar Suarez the rest are defenders.

You can't compare the rebuilding Rodgers had/still has to do even with what Rafa had to do. Rafa inherited a much better team - one that had finished 4th the season before. Rodgers inherited a team that had finished an average of 7th 3 seasons in a row. Quality, reliable performers were few and far between.

Getting Liverpool back to the top is a job comparable to what Ferguson found himself faced with at United in the 80s. That's my honest opinion. It's a long, hard road and there is no point thinking otherwise.

its true, the rebuilding job is massive, it could be 5/6 year thing.be very interested to see who rogers targets in jan window..

MyBrokenKnees · 29-11-2012 12:47AM

A front 3 of Suarez a 17 year old kid and a left back pretty much say it all really.

If Liverpool football club can't do better than that it is in big trouble sadly

billybudd · 29-11-2012 12:50AM

passremarkable wrote: »

the only problem i have with rogers is that the players dont seemed to be pumped coming onto the field, with other managers we had in recent years, even we were the inferior team,we would fight like dogs and have serious passion to get us over the line rather than a style of play as such.rogers just believes in systems and let your feet do the talking,just sometimes a players needs to be ate and kicked up the h*** to get moving

We lack serious aggression sometimes, since the second half of last season to now we seem very gentle in nature apart from when shelvey plays, he really is the only one who stands out as a player who becomes angry visibly.

G.K. · 29-11-2012 12:51AM

While I personally think some of the things being said are clearly over the top, I do not understand how someone who clearly knows his football (no beating about the bush here, Rodgers knows his stuff) is:

A. playing Gerrard so deep in this system
B. not resting Sterling
& C. playing Borini consistently (When he was well) in the one forward position which he can't play.

passremarkable · 29-11-2012 12:53AM

billybudd wrote: »

We lack serious aggression sometimes, since the second half of last season to now we seem very gentle in nature apart from when shelvey plays, he really is the only one who stands out as a player who becomes angry visibly.

and suarez of course:D
but seriously, alonso and masch a few years ago would do ya if you went near them.were missing that badly i think, an enforcer if you will.midfield is the battle zone and were bit too nice at the mo

billybudd · 29-11-2012 12:53AM

G.K. wrote: »

While I personally think some of the things being said are clearly over the top, I do not understand how someone who clearly knows his football (no beating about the bush here, Rodgers knows his stuff) is:

A. playing Gerrard so deep in this system
B. not resting Sterling
& C. playing Borini consistently (When he was well) in the one forward position which he can't play.

It all Wengers fault for turning Henry in to a striker from a left winger.

G.K. · 29-11-2012 12:54AM

billybudd wrote: »

It all Wengers fault for turning Henry in to a striker from a left winger.

Eh?

whatawaster · 29-11-2012 12:54AM

G.K. wrote: »

While I perosnally think some of the things being said are clearly over the top, I do not understand how someone who clearly knows his football (no beating about the bush here, Rodgers knows his stuff) is:

A. playing Gerrard so deep in this system
B. not resting Sterling
& C. playing Borini consistently (When he was well) in the one forward position which he can't play.

I agree on all 3 points. Though it's funny Dalglish didn't get this criticism last season for constantly playing Gerrard in central midfield. Only Rafa has really played him further forward where he belongs. Hopefully Lucas coming back and Rodgers' love for Allen will force the situation.

Borini was being played wide right to ease Sterling's introduction to football. They switched back for the United match and Borini was doing well in that match until he got injured. With Suarez scoring so many goals, wide right is likely where Borini will stay for the forseeable future.
To say he can't play there is unfair. He spent much of the City game in that position and played pretty well IIRC

billybudd · 29-11-2012 12:56AM

passremarkable wrote: »

and suarez of course:D
but seriously, alonso and masch a few years ago would do ya if you went near them.were missing that badly i think, an enforcer if you will.midfield is the battle zone and were bit too nice at the mo

Ha, yeah think Suarez has a different sort of anger, one that doesnt lift the players but only the crowd, we def need a Alonso/masch sort of enforcer.

Nuri Sahin · 29-11-2012 12:56AM

Kenny can do nothing wrong.

Stop beating around the bush and just say it.

daithijjj · 29-11-2012 12:57AM

whatawaster wrote: »

On your first point - we have practically played our second string (perhaps with the exception of Anzhi at home) for the entire group stage of the EL. It was a tough group and we haven't done badly all things considered. Our squad is quite thin.

I completely disagree on the second point and am too tired to debate the point with you again tonight. My view is that it doesn't matter if money had been spent prior to Rodgers coming in - it was spent dreadfully. We might as well have made a profit on players

Yes, we have played a second string, the point is, playing a second string has done what for league form?. We could actually be worse?.

Kenny may be many things to many different types of fans, he certainly wasnt to blame for outright incompetence in the last window. Rodgers saying that people were apologising to him for the state of the squad?, i dont know who is worse, him for saying it or the people who are apologising. But i do know they are all out of order because the results they are dishing up are quite frankly, sh1te, and a worse set of form has barely happened at this club in 40 years.

5starpool · 29-11-2012 12:59AM

MyBrokenKnees wrote: »

A front 3 of Suarez a 17 year old kid and a left back pretty much say it all really.

If Liverpool football club can't do better than that it is in big trouble sadly

I shudder to think what it'll be like next season if Suarez leaves as he is likely to do imo.

billybudd · 29-11-2012 12:59AM

G.K. wrote: »

Eh?

Was joking.

G.K. · 29-11-2012 12:59AM

whatawaster wrote: »

With Suarez scoring so many goals, wide right is likely where Borini will stay for the forseeable future.
To say he can't play there is unfair. He spent much of the City game in that position and played pretty well IIRC

Perhaps my wording was unfair, he's showed his workrate is excellent in that position but that his attacking potential is neutered there imo. If he was on the left and Sterling the right then you'd get a much better result out of it.

K-9 · 29-11-2012 01:00AM

billybudd wrote: »

We lack serious aggression sometimes, since the second half of last season to now we seem very gentle in nature apart from when shelvey plays, he really is the only one who stands out as a player who becomes angry visibly.

Give me other options for Sterling?

passremarkable · 29-11-2012 01:00AM

Unless we get an oil billionaire instant success is not gonna happen,lets be honest we have maybe 3/4 top class players, to compete for top4 you need probably 7/8 top players which cost good money ..this will take time me thinks

K-9 · 29-11-2012 01:01AM

Kenny was like a Sounness, stop pointing to him as a God.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

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