Majority of people in south want a united Ireland

Crooked Jack · 28-11-2012 03:44PM #1

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1127/1224327144275.html

Sorry if this has been done already, I didn't see one.

A new poll suggests that the majority of people in the south want a united Ireland, even if it would lead to an increase in taxes.
The poll asks a number of questions and it makes interesting reading.
So do you feel this is an accurate reflection of people's feelings?
Even with all the economic bother would the people of the 26 counties still vote for unity if it came down to it?

0ph0rce0 · 28-11-2012 04:09PM

In before it turns into a Sinn Fein bashing thread. :rolleyes:

Sure why not I say, no harm in giving it a go and getting back whats ours

hyperborean · 28-11-2012 04:14PM

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

In before it turns into a Sinn Fein bashing thread. :rolleyes:

Sure why not I say, no harm in giving it a go and getting back whats ours

Who is this ours? Never was ours, and the majority of the north dont want anything to do with the republic?

Ziphius · 28-11-2012 04:15PM

Do you have a source for the original poll?

Fr Tod Umptious · 28-11-2012 04:26PM

Crooked Jack wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1127/1224327144275.html

Sorry if this has been done already, I didn't see one.

A new poll suggests that the majority of people in the south want a united Ireland, even if it would lead to an increase in taxes.
The poll asks a number of questions and it makes interesting reading.
So do you feel this is an accurate reflection of people's feelings?
Even with all the economic bother would the people of the 26 counties still vote for unity if it came down to it?

Yes I'm afraid it would be a true reflection.

Even though I do not want to see a UI myself I believe that romantic sentiment will lead a majority in the Republic to vote for one when the day comes.

mathepac · 28-11-2012 04:39PM

hyperborean wrote: »

Who is this ours? Never was ours, and the majority of the north dont want anything to do with the republic?

Did you really mean to say that majority of the people in Northern Ireland don't want anything to do with Ireland?

"Give us back our Teddy's head!"

Shea O'Meara · 28-11-2012 04:57PM

I've read enough of these threads I can sum it up...

United Ireland?
Up the 'Ra!
I'm British!
Too expensive!
Sure why not.
But I'm British!
Britain wants rid anyway.
No, I'm British!
Battle of the Boyne was a fix!
MOD CLOSES THREAD.

Personally, a united Ireland is Ireland's natural state of being. The northern Irish people who consider themselves British are welcome to continue to do so, that's their buisiness.
Those who whine about the expense are generally trying to seem fiscal and business minded, which has no place in such decisions. You don't leave your Children in a workhouse because you want to eat steak seven nights a week instead of one.

Death and Taxes · 28-11-2012 04:58PM

Genuinely would not want to see a UI.

28-11-2012 05:06PM

I would be absolutely against the idea of a United Ireland.

Absorbing an area of land which receives circa £5 billion in government grants yearly is simply unaffordable. The social tensions between the two communities are also something we could do without.

It would also lead to an influx of SF voters into our political system which would be extremely detrimental to society.

c_man · 28-11-2012 05:40PM

I wouldn't be too happy seeing ~20% of the Dail consist of the types of DUP religious bigots whom we'd be absorbing.

mike65 · 28-11-2012 05:41PM

Majority want apple pie too.

Almost half the people in the Republic consider Northern Ireland to be Irish and British, according to the Ipsos MRBI 50th anniversary poll.

That's an interesting point given what one normally hears from Shinners/republicans down here.

oh wait

Asked if they considered the people of Northern Ireland to be Irish, British, both or neither – 46 per cent said both, 30 per cent said Irish, 9 per cent said British, 4 per cent said neither and 10 per cent had no opinion.

Hmmm, foreigners account for that I'll guess.

Godge · 28-11-2012 05:48PM

Getting back to the poll and away from posters' personal preferences or silly views about "the natural state of being", reading the article the one thing that struck me most clearly was the fact that the vast majority did not expect to see a united Ireland in their lifetime.

In effect, from a reliable polling point of view, that finding rendered the rest of the poll meaningless. People are not going to seriously consider views on something that is not likely to happen in their lifetime. For another example, look at the failures to take decisive action on climate change. Lots of people talk the talk but few give up their guzzling cars because the consequences are so far away. Similarly, it is easy to say a United Ireland is a good idea when you will not have to face the reality of it in your lifetime. You see the same thing with many referenda in their early stages with strange polls that are not reflected on polling day.

All in all, the poll has about as much worth as a poll on which Star Wars personality you would most like to meet.

Green Diesel · 28-11-2012 05:52PM

Sure why not is my attitude.

If they wanted to join, come on in, I'm a welcoming fellow.

Crooked Jack · 28-11-2012 05:55PM

hyperborean wrote: »

Who is this ours? Never was ours, and the majority of the north dont want anything to do with the republic?

Hmm, yes it was, it's part of Ireland and as such belongs to the Irish people.

I think that as people in the north gradually move away from traditional divisions and begin to examine what is actually best for them unification will come around naturally.
Also, you'll forgive me if I place very little stock in what the majority of people in an area artificially cordoned off from the rest of the country to give a foreign power the result they wanted say.

Anyway, the poll only asked people in the south so lets keep that the focus of the thread.

Crooked Jack · 28-11-2012 05:58PM

Godge wrote: »

Getting back to the poll and away from posters' personal preferences or silly views about "the natural state of being", reading the article the one thing that struck me most clearly was the fact that the vast majority did not expect to see a united Ireland in their lifetime.

In effect, from a reliable polling point of view, that finding rendered the rest of the poll meaningless. People are not going to seriously consider views on something that is not likely to happen in their lifetime. For another example, look at the failures to take decisive action on climate change. Lots of people talk the talk but few give up their guzzling cars because the consequences are so far away. Similarly, it is easy to say a United Ireland is a good idea when you will not have to face the reality of it in your lifetime. You see the same thing with many referenda in their early stages with strange polls that are not reflected on polling day.

All in all, the poll has about as much worth as a poll on which Star Wars personality you would most like to meet.

well, what "worth" does any poll have. All polls are ever designed to do is give a snapshot of people's opinions. That what it has done. That's its worth. No opinion poll has ever decided anything

_Whimsical_ · 28-11-2012 06:05PM

Green Diesel wrote: »

Sure why not is my attitude.

If they wanted to join, come on in, I'm a welcoming fellow.

Are you welcoming enough to find an around an £10bn in our annual budget to subsidise the 6 counties? Right now they run at a circa £10 bn tax deficit each year.

Public spending per head has consistently been 20-24% higher than the UK average and is the highest of any UK region. As a result of this, Northern Ireland runs at an annual deficit, requiring circa £10bn of annual funding from Westminster, over and above the tax contributions made by individuals and companies within the province.

Source before anyone asks: http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/grassroots/2012/11/northern-ireland-decision-time-corporation-tax-power.html

I would like a united Ireland however not at that price and I think most would agree. "Romantic Ireland's dead and gone ..." .This generation has seen that practical realities are painfully inescapable.

Ziphius · 28-11-2012 06:05PM

Crooked Jack wrote: »

well, what "worth" does any poll have. All polls are ever designed to do is give a snapshot of people's opinions. That what it has done. That's its worth. No opinion poll has ever decided anything

Well, without seeing the original questions we can't really extract any meaning from this poll.

For example 64% of people see a UI as "something to hope for". Which, to me, seems particularly vague. I think there is a subtle difference between saying that and "wanting a United Ireland".

What is interesting, however, is that 46% of respondents consider the people of Northern Ireland to be both Irish and British. And that the majority of Irish people do not see a united Ireland as something that will happen soon -- 35% of people believe it will never happen.

Green Diesel · 28-11-2012 06:14PM

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Are you welcoming enough to find an around an £10bn in our annual budget to subsidise the 6 counties? Right now they run at a circa £10 bn tax deficit each year.

We'll see what the economic arguments are at the time, but yes I'd imagine both economies would ultimately benefit from a union.

Crooked Jack · 28-11-2012 06:14PM

Ziphius wrote: »

Well, without seeing the original questions we can't really extract any meaning from this poll.

For example 64% of people see a UI as "something to hope for". Which, to me, seems particularly vague. I think there is a subtle difference between saying that and "wanting a United Ireland".

What is interesting, however, is that 46% of respondents consider the people of Northern Ireland to be both Irish and British. And that the majority of Irish people do not see a united Ireland as something that will happen soon -- 35% of people believe it will never happen.

why would you hope for something you didn't want?

Crooked Jack · 28-11-2012 06:17PM

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Are you welcoming enough to find an around an £10bn in our annual budget to subsidise the 6 counties? Right now they run at a circa £10 bn tax deficit each year.

Source before anyone asks: http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/grassroots/2012/11/northern-ireland-decision-time-corporation-tax-power.html

I would like a united Ireland however not at that price and I think most would agree. "Romantic Ireland's dead and gone ..." .This generation has seen that practical realities are painfully inescapable.

It gets a £10bn block grant (for now) but raises about £5bn for the exchequer, so you can halve that for a start.
Anyway, it's not appropriate to equate spending under British rule with what it would be in a united Ireland. Unity would be a game changer, it's not helpful to make guesses or assumptions like that.
What is needed is a proper examination into how it would (or wouldnt) work

loggedoff · 28-11-2012 06:18PM

c_man wrote: »

I wouldn't be too happy seeing ~20% of the Dail consist of the types of DUP religious bigots whom we'd be absorbing.

It'd be great fun to watch though.
Maybe a decent shake up of the political system on the whole island is what's needed, it's pretty stagnent right now!

Ziphius · 28-11-2012 06:24PM

Crooked Jack wrote: »

why would you hope for something you didn't want?

Hope, to me, implies a sort of passivity rather than an active wanting or desire. As I said it's a subtle difference and wasn't really the point I was trying to make.

neaideabh · 28-11-2012 06:29PM

I couldn't give a flying f()ck about a united Ireland. But it does bother me that our national rugby team cannot be identified by our national flag! I don't care what they say up north! If they want to represent themselves on a national level, let them set up their own team!

See the world rankings the other day and there is ireland in it with this meaningless green flag! and don't get me started on the "Ireland's Own" anthem!

Sierra Oscar · 28-11-2012 06:30PM

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

In before it turns into a Sinn Fein bashing thread. :rolleyes:

Sure why not I say, no harm in giving it a go and getting back whats ours

Funny you should mention that, because the polling indicates that Sinn Féin supporters are not welcoming of the prospect of achieving a united Ireland when compared to all of the other mainstream political parties.

Does it suit Sinn Féin to have partition? What is the explanation for the lack of support for unity within Sinn Féin?

Iwasfrozen · 28-11-2012 06:33PM

neaideabh wrote: »

I couldn't give a flying f()ck about a united Ireland. But it does bother me that our national rugby team cannot be identified by our national flag! I don't care what they say up north! If they want to represent themselves on a national level, let them set up their own team!

See the world rankings the other day and there is ireland in it with this meaningless green flag! and don't get me started on the "Ireland's Own" anthem!

Would you rather see them in a united British team?

neaideabh · 28-11-2012 06:37PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Would you rather see them in a united British team?

Did ya not see what I said? Let them set up their own team! It works for soccer.
A united british team never came into the equation.

Rebelkell · 28-11-2012 06:40PM

We are looking at this the wrong way

What we should be looking at is the possibility of pawning off Donegal and the rest of Sean Quinn land counties to the north.

That would teach the brits a lesson i can tell you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

old hippy · 28-11-2012 06:40PM

I used to think it would be a good thing. But then I grew out of this patriotism lark. I have no real wish to see a united Ireland or a United Kingdom, come to think of it.

You could well give it a try, though. Another 40 years of violence and mayhem is probably just what we need to take our minds off the recession.

sanbrafyffe · 28-11-2012 06:42PM

i genuinely dont think the timeing is right just yet and either do the people of n.i,,,however there is only one thing that will unite us and that what we do with our fingers to sign a certain piece of paper,,,yes money

i see this week former loyalists meeting irish parlimentary personel and funny enough peter robinson of the dup putting his strongest ever party conference speech the other day,,,his aim,,,to get the catholics involved in the dup,,,,wat will be his success rate,,,,,sweet fuxx all,,,why beacuse 98% of catholics vote for nationalist parties,,,,what is he worried about,,,,the increase in the nationalist youth voting economics,,,next month december 2012,the british goverenments census team will publish their census papers on 2012 and forecomeing 2013 ,,,what is expected,,,a stronger nationalist vote for the very first time in the history of the northern ireland state.hard to believe.ian paisley aslways said that one day the nationalist vote would be stronger than the unionist and he was dead right

sanbrafyffe · 28-11-2012 06:43PM

this will never happen,,,people have now moved on,,violence gets us no where

old hippy wrote: »

I used to think it would be a good thing. But then I grew out of this patriotism lark. I have no real wish to see a united Ireland or a United Kingdom, come to think of it.

You could well give it a try, though. Another 40 years of violence and mayhem is probably just what we need to take our minds off the recession.

Mr Simpson · 28-11-2012 06:44PM

I'm not sure I'd like to see it myself. I feel that we are a long way off a situation where we could have a peaceful transition. No matter what we do, there will be a group of people who will not be happy, and are perfectly ok with using violence as a means to vocalise their disatisfaction.

Majority of people in south want a united Ireland

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