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child protection???don't make me laugh.

  • 26-11-2012 09:01PM
    #1
    marble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭


    In a nutshell,my brother has a 4 year old child from a previous relationship.she also has another older child for someone else.
    She has turned to heroin in the last few yrs,and also associates with the kind of people said drugs brings.
    Both children regularly miss school,go hungry,appear scruffy etc.
    My brother has been to the Gardai,ocial services,solicitors,fathers for justice,sent emails to various td's and even Joe Duffy,but he either gets no replies or is told it'll be kept on file.
    He has been in contact with child protection recently and they told him they can't do anything without any "hard evidence",even though her sons grandad has been in contact with them too over his concerns.
    I mean,WTF has to happen to the kids before someone sits up and listens?
    Its a ****ing disgrace.


«13

Comments

  • #2
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    Well the Children's Referendum has such children in mind - and hopefully will help dispel the ridiculous notion that children should *always* stay with their mothers. That's why I can't understand John Waters et al's being unhappy with it.


  • #3
    marble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭marble


    Madam_X wrote: »
    Well the Children's Referendum has such children in mind - and hopefully will help dispel the ridiculous notion that children should *always* stay with their mothers. That's why I can't understand John Waters et al's being unhappy with it.
    We're sick with worry and no one seems to be able to help us


  • #4
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,626 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Has anyone else ever made complaints to Gardai and so on.. teachers, GPs etc? I can't imagine such a case going ignored if it's as serious as you're saying it is.


  • #5
    Giselle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Giselle


    At the same time its not ideal that kids should be taken from their parents without actual evidence. Taking someones word for it isn't enough, as we all know malicious people tell lies.

    Not saying thats what's happening here, but the reality is that until something DOES happen the kids, nobody knows that anything WILL happen the kids.


  • #6
    ElleEm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭ElleEm


    I don't know, it seems a bit hard to believe.

    If there are genuine concerns for their welfare, why can't he allow them to stay with him for a while?

    Get everyone with concerns, (you, him, extended family, teachers, neighbours etc.) to ring the relevant social work team. They should arrange a home visit to check out what's really going on. They need to do an investigation to get the "hard evidence" that you are saying is so blatant.


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  • #7
    Super-Rush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,473 ✭✭✭✭Super-Rush


    Lets try and keep the joke for the millions of other threads here. Serious replies only please.

    You know, for a change.


  • #8
    irishgirl19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭irishgirl19


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Has anyone else ever made complaints to Gardai and so on.. teachers, GPs etc? I can't imagine such a case going ignored if
    it's as serious as you're saying it is.

    teachers? i wouldn't bet on it. My mams friend went to one of the neighbours kids schools to tell them he was being beaten and the school says we won't get involved you'll have to make a complaint to the gaurds yourself.

    When it came to the point the gaurds had to get involved when they went to the school to ask how said child was the teaches said oh he hasn't been himself at all lately.the cheek like she knew what the child was going through and seen he was down and didn't think to say anything


  • #9
    marble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭marble


    ElleEm wrote: »
    I don't know, it seems a bit hard to believe.

    If there are genuine concerns for their welfare, why can't he allow them to stay with him for a while?

    Get everyone with concerns, (you, him, extended family, teachers, neighbours etc.) to ring the relevant social work team. They should arrange a home visit to check out what's really going on. They need to do an investigation to get the "hard evidence" that you are saying is so blatant.
    She won't let him take his daughter for an extended period.he tried sitting down with her to explain its for the child's good but she won't have any of it


  • #10
    Spiritual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭Spiritual


    I feel for the kids. Surely someone from social services has to be looking at this case if complaints have been made.
    Has your brother access to the his kid. He is entitled to even supervised custody. He could use this to get the child to open up in the presence of the social worker.
    He needs to fight dirty I am afraid, mother's in this country are blesseth in the views of this backward country of ours.


  • #11
    emsie80
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53 ✭✭emsie80


    has he been to family court? has he made an application for custody / access??


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  • #12
    Smidge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    Not sure about this OP, not saying you are not telling the truth or anything but as other posters said this is hard to believe.

    Not many people know about it but it is actually the law now that if you see, witness etc a child that is being abused YOU ARE LEGALLY BOUND to report it or if not, you have broken the law.

    So if you and other family members have reported this to the Gardai they must investigate.

    Have the social services made an investigative visit to the house where the child lives?


  • #13
    marble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭marble


    Spiritual wrote: »
    I feel for the kids. Surely someone from social services has to be looking at this case if complaints have been made.
    Has your brother access to the his kid. He is entitled to even supervised custody. He could use this to get the child to open up in the presence of the social worker.

    He needs to fight dirty I am afraid, mother's in this country are blesseth in the views of this backward country of ours.
    Yeah he has access every Wed,Sat&Sun.not sure if he's thought of sitting her down with someone.seems like a good idea


  • #14
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    He needs to take a custody case to court, and go with every bit of evidence he has recorded over time.

    Its happened to a guy I know, same story, his ex was using heroin. In that case she would forget to collect the child after access and forget he was being collected, after quite a few incidents it came to a court case, the guy I knew won custody, but it was a long time getting there. She was known to the guards which helped.

    Everything needs to be recorded, everyone (as in Guards, social worker, community health nurse etc....) needs to be constantly hassled by your brother.


  • #15
    keith16
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    Sorry to hear that OP. Maybe find out what kind of "evidence" is needed from child protection. Could be something that the local doctor or school could help provide (in terms of backing up your claims)?

    Sorry I can't be of more help than that.


  • #16
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    Smidge makes a good point, hasnt the law been changed in this regard? I fail to see how neglect is not being investigated, even a cursory investigation.


  • #17
    Spiritual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭Spiritual


    marble wrote: »
    Yeah he has access every Wed,Sat&Sun.not sure if he's thought of sitting her down with someone.seems like a good idea

    Out of the mouths of babes will come the truth.


  • #18
    Abi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,058 ✭✭✭✭Abi


    marble wrote: »
    Both children regularly miss school,go hungry,appear scruffy etc.
    My brother has been to the Gardai,ocial services,solicitors,fathers for justice,sent emails to various td's and even Joe Duffy,but he either gets no replies or is told it'll be kept on file.
    Could your brother not go to court again with his solicitor and ask for a variation of access? The solicitor can put it across that theres concerns for the childrens welfare, and the judge can order a section 22. This is a full investigation of the childrens homes, ie yours and your exes, their schools, doctors, hospitals, the parents mental state and homelife etc. If the children have been missing school, appear scruffy, and are not being fed properly this will not have gone unnoticed in the schools. The HSE can obtain information from all of these places about those children. they also speak to the children individually.

    If your brother hasn't been informed of this, he may want to re-consider using the same solicitor.


  • #19
    Smidge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    AFAIK Username, legislation was passed this year requiring people by law to report abuse(this I would imagine is a pretty broad umbrella term with regard to children, so sexual, physical including neglect etc would come under this).

    So if the OP's rels and themselves have spoken to all and sundry about this child something is off.


  • #20
    marble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭marble


    Smidge wrote: »
    Not sure about this OP, not saying you are not telling the truth or anything but as other posters said this is hard to believe.

    Not many people know about it but it is actually the law now that if you see, witness etc a child that is being abused YOU ARE LEGALLY BOUND to report it or if not, you have broken the law.

    So if you and other family members have reported this to the Gardai they must investigate.

    Have the social services made an investigative visit to the house where the child lives?
    Yeah child protection visited her and the schools 2 weeks ago.the teachers backed up everything my brother reported but he's still waiting for them to finish their initial report


  • #21
    Abi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,058 ✭✭✭✭Abi


    marble wrote: »
    Yeah child protection visited her and the schools 2 weeks ago.the teachers backed up everything my brother reported but he's still waiting for them to finish their initial report

    Was this court ordered by a judge or was it because he'd reported it himself? is his access to the child court ordered also, or is it a casual arrangement?


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  • #22
    Spiritual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭Spiritual


    .


  • #23
    Smidge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    marble wrote: »
    Yeah child protection visited her and the schools 2 weeks ago.the teachers backed up everything my brother reported but he's still waiting for them to finish their initial report

    In fairness Marble, that's a bit different from what you said in the OP.

    So social services ARE doing something, they are investigating(must be if they are doing a report) but just not as quickly as you would like.

    Out of interest, how long has the mother been doing heroin?


  • #24
    marble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭marble


    Trust me,if I was to read a thread like this I'd be a little sceptical too.
    Its happening though and no matter who its reported to,they drag their heels and keep it on file.
    Social services even let her know when they'd be calling,and because of this she pulled the wool over their eyes


  • #25
    Spiritual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭Spiritual


    .


  • #26
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    Spiritual wrote: »
    If the mother is on heroin, can your family not just go and take the kids and see if she makes any effort to get them back.

    Unless the OPs brother has guardianship thatd be kidnapping, and plenty of heroin addicts are semi functional. It would go very badly for a later legit case in court for OPs brother if he kidnapped a child now.

    Op - so social services ARE doing something. Again, has he been to court regarding access?


  • #27
    Abi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,058 ✭✭✭✭Abi


    marble wrote: »
    Social services even let her know when they'd be calling,and because of this she pulled the wool over their eyes
    They're not stupid either. what is going on at school and at the doctors will reflect what is REALLY going on at home. They have to build up a case of what is going on in order to be able to do something about it. Your brother is obviously very frustrated, but it doesn't happen over night. While it's not common to remove children from their mothers care, it can happen. He's just going to have to keep reporting anything untoward going on with the kids, as every bit of information can help.


  • #28
    marble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭marble


    Spiritual wrote: »

    Sometimes the law is an ass and you need to act outside it to protect the innocent.

    Just saying.
    Think it hasn't crossed my mind?
    Thing is,if something happens her it would more likely fall back on my brother.I've been very vocal about my hatred for her


  • #29
    marble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭marble


    username123 wrote: »

    Unless the OPs brother has guardianship thatd be kidnapping, and plenty of heroin addicts are semi functional. It would go very badly for a later legit case in court for OPs brother if he kidnapped a child now.

    Op - so social services ARE doing something. Again, has he been to court regarding access?
    Yeah he has access through the courts but she won't let him take his daughter full time so she can get sorted


  • #30
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Spiritual wrote: »
    I have to ask. If the mother is on heroin, can your family not just go and take the kids and see if she makes any effort to get them back. She may be that far gone that the heroin may be her priority. Heroin addicts don't generally like dealing with authorities.

    It might also be the trigger she needs to straighten herself out.

    Please don't do this, you have no legal right and will make things harder for your brother.

    Is the mother on treatment for her heroin habit, ay what evidence have you that her heroin use is causing her to neglect the child?

    I work in the addiction services I need something soild before I contact social services drug use itself is not enough I need to show neglect is happening.

    Services are over worked I know that is no excuse but if they are investigating the issue then they are doing something.

    You need document everything and keep in regular contact with social services,


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  • #31
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    The school may have kept files on the children if they have been troublesome or poorly looked after at home. Schools can call social welfare. So your best bet may be the school itself.


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