CSO report on public-private pay gap

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 04:15PM

PFI wrote: »

Not some, many, I would say most of those on JA, especially with families and small kids don't even bother to look for oficially advertised jobs, opting instead for generous SW benefits and some unofficial full or part-time work, making living better than of the overtaxed working middle class families with kids, who curently barely survive under heavy tax load and extremely high child care/medical/transportation costs assosiated with employment.

I agree we are overpaying in social welfare in this country..but for a public servant to point to this and compare our social welfare to the uk and say that they took a cut over 2 years ago and when the same comparison is done with public sector pay with the uk there is the same differential and social welfare has taken the same cuts as the ps pay has over the last 5 years...yet the public sector worker (frank in this case) sees the social welfare as fair game and is outraged because of how high it is..and cannot understand why other people are looking at the public sector pay and pensions and looking for that to be cut...Talk about deflect and leave me alone cut everyone else FFS

frankosw · 21-11-2012 04:20PM

fliball123 wrote: »

I agree we are overpaying in social welfare in this country..but for a public servant to point to this and compare our social welfare to the uk and say that they took a cut over 2 years ago and when the same comparison is done with public sector pay with the uk there is the same differential and social welfare has taken the same cuts as the ps pay has over the last 5 years...yet the public sector worker (frank in this case) sees the social welfare as fair game and is outraged because of how high it is..and cannot understand why other people are looking at the public sector pay and pensions and looking for that to be cut...Talk about deflect and leave me alone cut everyone else FFS

You see the difference is that the PS workers actually go to work in the mornings and actually work in thier jobs throughout the day.

This is the reason that they actually get paid...you work,you recieve wages.

The people who dont work still get paid wages and in many cases have a better lifestyle than those who work and yet do nothing to earn it.

As for this bit:

sees the social welfare as fair game and is outraged because of how high it is..and cannot understand why other people are looking at the public sector pay and pensions and looking for that to be cut...

This is the sort of thing you only ever hear from people on the dole.

Celticfire · 21-11-2012 04:21PM

fliball123 wrote: »

...Talk about deflect and leave me alone cut everyone else FFS

LOL...... that's all you've ever advocated...

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 04:21PM

frankosw wrote: »

Really?

I think you will find that there isnt.

Far too much money being given to people not to work in this country..what they do over there with SW makes far more sense.

See this is where I differ with you..Only someone in a guaranteed job for life and guaranteed pension can say that..Yet you ignore the fact that 5 private sector companies from the start of 2010 to date have gone to the wall...These people who were employed in these companies..lost everything and didnt have a gold plated pension, a golden handshake or the over the top top ups of above the statutory 2 weeks a year redundancy..And you have the fcuking gall to try to kick them while they are down and try to defend yourself...How dare you...I have no truck saying that I do think it is overpaid and we should be going German style where if a person isnt working for 6 months they get the dole cut..but there are very few jobs out there Frank...You gave a criteria for the dole to be cut it is high when compared to our nearest neighbor and then when its pointed out that your wage is just as high when compared you come out with this b0ll0x ... Shame on you Frank...have a look at ps pay and penions in the uk and compare to ireland and come back to me and then have a think about which country is in the mire...

frankosw · 21-11-2012 04:23PM

fliball123 wrote: »

See this is where I differ with you..Only someone in a guaranteed job for life and guaranteed pension can say that..Yet you ignore the fact that 5 private sector companies from the start of 2010 to date have gone to the wall...These people who were employed in these companies..lost everything and didnt have a gold plated pension, a golden handshake or the over the top top ups of above the statutory 2 weeks a year redundancy..And you have the fcuking gall to try to kick them while they are down and try to defend yourself...How dare you...I have no truck saying that I do think it is overpaid and we should be going German style where if a person isnt working for 6 months they get the dole cut..but there are very few jobs out there Frank...You gave a criteria for the dole to be cut it is high when compared to our nearest neighbor and then when its pointed out that your wage is just as high when compared you come out with this b0ll0x ... Shame on you Frank...have a look at ps pay and penions in the uk and compare to ireland and come back to me and then have a think about which country is in the mire...

Too much money being wasted on the dole..its so high its a disinsentive for people to go looking for work.

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 04:27PM

frankosw wrote: »

You see the difference is that the PS workers actually go to work in the mornings and actually work in thier jobs throughout the day.

This is the reason that they actually get paid...you work,you recieve wages.

The people who dont work still get paid wages and in many cases have a better lifestyle than those who work and yet do nothing to earn it.

As for this bit:

This is the sort of thing you only ever hear from people on the dole.

So what if you go to work in the morning..why should I pay you so much more to do so than people working in the public sector up in northern Ireland..why are you so special Frank?

As for your last quip..I have not been on the dole for last 20 years.. I work Frank. I work in the private sector..the people that pay for your over inflated wage...and what I have a problem with is you attacking people who used to pay your wage and due to the down turn see their jobs disappear and you want to hit them and yet you have a l'oriel attitude to your own wage and cant understand why people are saying you need to be cut again. You cant have it both ways..the 2 costs currently are unaffordable but only one has a ridiculous agreement and a treat of industrial action to keep them at the trough

21-11-2012 04:29PM

well done for keeping a job you can't be fired from, frankosw

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 04:29PM

Celticfire wrote: »

LOL...... that's all you've ever advocated...

Really I have stated we need to pay more in tax numerous times.. which will impact on my earnings...

Celticfire · 21-11-2012 04:33PM

fliball123 wrote: »

So what if you go to work in the morning..why should I pay you so much more to do so than people working in the public sector up in northern Ireland..why are you so special Frank?

As for your last quip..I have not been on the dole for last 20 years.. I work Frank. I work in the private sector..the people that pay for your over inflated wage...and what I have a problem with is you attacking people who used to pay your wage and due to the down turn see their jobs disappear and you want to hit them and yet you have a l'oriel attitude to your own wage and cant understand why people are saying you need to be cut again. You cant have it both ways..the 2 costs currently are unaffordable but only one has a ridiculous agreement and a treat of industrial action to keep them at the trough

So you can attack him because you perceive that you pay his wage.... but he can't do the same to whom he perceives he's giving money to... Illogical

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 04:33PM

frankosw wrote: »

Too much money being wasted on the dole..its so high its a disinsentive for people to go looking for work.

I agree ...But there is also too much money ring fenced for salaries within departments within the public sector like education and health..where over 70% is spent on salaries..and due to the CPA cannot be touched and therefore forcing cuts to SNAs, increased class sizes and the likes..So in other words the services being provided to me for my taxes which has increased year in year out over the last 5 years continues to diminish and yet I will be paying more in tax this year...

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 04:37PM

Celticfire wrote: »

So you can attack him because you perceive that you pay his wage.... but he can't do the same to whom he perceives he's giving money to... Illogical

No I attack him as he thinks people on the dole are fair game and he thinks his wage should only go upwards...I have agreed with him on the dole but at the same time I think he has a cheek wanting them to be cut while his wage is left alone...My taxes pay for both by the way...

frankosw · 21-11-2012 04:40PM

fliball123 wrote: »

So what if you go to work in the morning..why should I pay you so much more to do so than people working in the public sector up in northern Ireland..why are you so special Frank?

Well this isnt "northern ireland" is it?

Perhaps you could get a job up there and you wont have to pay the PS quite so much from yoru hard-earned salary..no doubt private sector salaries are comparable too?

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 04:43PM

frankosw wrote: »

Well this isnt "northern ireland" is it?

Perhaps you could get a job up there and you wont have to pay the PS quite so much from yoru hard-earned salary..no doubt private sector salaries are comparable too?

Yet your comfortable compaing the dole rates with the uk which includes northern Ireland..Good man...What does the private sector have to do with it...You should be wishing for a more vibrant private sector so we can get the money in to pay your wage.. I dont know of any private sector company in the world paying pay rises while borrowing 2 million an hour Frank

frankosw · 21-11-2012 04:45PM

fliball123 wrote: »

I agree ...But there is also too much money ring fenced for salaries within departments within the public sector like education and health..where over 70% is spent on salaries..and due to the CPA cannot be touched and therefore forcing cuts to SNAs, increased class sizes and the likes..So in other words the services being provided to me for my taxes which has increased year in year out over the last 5 years continues to diminish and yet I will be paying more in tax this year...

Welcome to a recession and progressive mismanagement of tax revnue by the govt,reckless lending by the banks and dishonesty and corruption in the building and dedelopment sectors.

Welcome also to the debt of the bondholders becoming the burden of the taxpayer.

Welcome to unchecked immigration into this country,a massive asylum-seeker backlog and the welfare system as lifestyle choice.

Perhaps you didnt know any of this and preffered to think it was exclusively the fault of the PS?

frankosw · 21-11-2012 04:46PM

fliball123 wrote: »

I dont know of any private sector company in the world paying pay rises while borrowing 2 million an hour Frank

AIB would be a good example...or Anglo.

Mind you the private sector is badly underperforming..they've shot themselves in the foot through greed and are now looking towards PS companies like Enterprise Ireland and the IDA to come help them out.

The Irony is quiet delicious.

Celticfire · 21-11-2012 04:47PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Really I have stated we need to pay more in tax numerous times.. which will impact on my earnings...

I must have blinked when you advocated paying more tax. I thought you said we were at the point of diminishing returns.

fliball123 wrote: »

.So in other words the services being provided to me for my taxes which has increased year in year out over the last 5 years continues to diminish and yet I will be paying more in tax this year...

Me Me Me again.. We all are paying more taxes .And funnily enough these things affect everyone not just you.

fliball123 wrote: »

No I attack him as he thinks people on the dole are fair game and he thinks his wage should only go upwards...I have agreed with him on the dole but at the same time I think he has a cheek wanting them to be cut while his wage is left alone...My taxes pay for both by the way...

I think you have some cheek to tell him he's overpaid when you have no Idea what he does.
A least he's working for his money. It's pretty disheartening to be working and seeing someone get almost the same amount through social welfare and other benefits.

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 04:49PM

frankosw wrote: »

Welcome to a recession and progressive mismanagement of tax revnue by the govt,reckless lending by the banks and dishonesty and corruption in the building and dedelopment sectors.

Welcome also to the debt of the bondholders becoming the burden of the taxpayer.

Welcome to unchecked immigration into this country,a massive asylum-seeker backlog and the welfare system as lifestyle choice.

Perhaps you didnt know any of this and preffered to think it was exclusively the fault of the PS?

bondholders banks and devalopers cause under 1/3rd of the problem we are in..the other 2/3rds is from overpaying our public sector and social welfare..These figures have been done to death on boards...And why do you continue to deflect I have agreed with you with regard to social welfare..we cannot afford it given our present circumstances...but the same goes with the current level of public sector pay and pensions...dont bother deflecting to welfare I will underline and bold it I agree we are paying too much for this aswell

PFI · 21-11-2012 04:50PM

fliball123 wrote: »

I agree we are overpaying in social welfare in this country..but for a public servant to point to this and compare our social welfare to the uk and say that they took a cut over 2 years ago and when the same comparison is done with public sector pay with the uk there is the same differential and social welfare has taken the same cuts as the ps pay has over the last 5 years...yet the public sector worker (frank in this case) sees the social welfare as fair game and is outraged because of how high it is..and cannot understand why other people are looking at the public sector pay and pensions and looking for that to be cut...Talk about deflect and leave me alone cut everyone else FFS

As our economy build up around export-oriented private MNCs and this segment generates most of the wealth and foreign currency for our economy, our remuneration system should be build up in the same way: the highest salaries should be in private export-oriented sector, while all the rest should have a lower pay. I mean all, including the public sector/quangos/state-controlled organisations (banks, etc). However it is not the case at the moment. So, I agree that should be further significant reductions in JA (jobseeker’s allowance) and salaries in public sector/quangos/state-controlled organisations (banks, etc). In case of JA it should be limited to the maximum of 3 years in a row, with a maximum of 10 years over life. Medical cards, education (they all take multiple courses but never go to work afterwards), and child care should be removed, together with remouval of child benefits. They should receive only 2 benefits in total: rental assistance (if qualify) and main benefit, which should be reduced downwards. In case of public sector/quangos/state-controlled organisations (banks, etc) remuneration caps should be imposed (specialists and middle management at 80-100K a year and top management at 120k a year), as well as the caps on their pensions (i.e. no more than 2.5-3 times of the basic state pension for private sector employees). At the same time our tax system should also undergo substantial reforms, reducing the number of personal taxes to one, increasing the number of tax rates and moving them upwards, removing tax credits, etc.

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 04:53PM

frankosw wrote: »

AIB would be a good example...or Anglo.

Mind you the private sector is badly underperforming..they've shot themselves in the foot through greed and are now looking towards PS companies like Enterprise Ireland and the IDA to come help them out.

The Irony is quiet delicious.

And Frank I agree with the banks but who made the decision to make them state banks effectively. Who was suppsed to be watching over them???..The private sector is being throttled Frank...You want people to pay more in tax and then dont understand why people on the dole would not go out and take a low paying job and work when they know how much in tax they will be paying...

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 04:56PM

Celticfire wrote: »

I must have blinked when you advocated paying more tax. I thought you said we were at the point of diminishing returns.

Me Me Me again.. We all are paying more taxes .And funnily enough these things affect everyone not just you.

I think you have some cheek to tell him he's overpaid when you have no Idea what he does.
A least he's working for his money. It's pretty disheartening to be working and seeing someone get almost the same amount through social welfare and other benefits.

I believe we are past that point but the deficit is still huge and I dont for one second think it would be fair to just cut..and he is overpaid...and its disheartening to see all other areas in the ecconomy being cut and then seeing the public servants getting pay rises

frankosw · 21-11-2012 05:07PM

fliball123 wrote: »

..and he is overpaid.

How do you know what i get paid?

You dont even know what i work at.

.

fliball123 wrote: »

...and its disheartening to see all other areas in the ecconomy being cut

Like what exactly?

The only area that was definately cut,without and shadow of a doubt that was 100% without question that was cut was PS pay.

Can you link to how "all other areas of the economy" are being cut..all i can see are payrises and price increases.

.

fliball123 wrote: »

... and then seeing the public servants getting pay rises

Which pay rises are these?

The yearly increments that are part of thier salaries,that are factored into any govt and IMF equations on wage bills?

These are pay rises how?

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 05:22PM

frankosw wrote: »

How do you know what i get paid?

You dont even know what i work at.

.

Like what exactly?

The only area that was definately cut,without and shadow of a doubt that was 100% without question that was cut was PS pay.

Can you link to how "all other areas of the economy" are being cut..all i can see are payrises and price increases.

.

Which pay rises are these?

The yearly increments that are part of thier salaries,that are factored into any govt and IMF equations on wage bills?

These are pay rises how?

Ok what do you work at Frank?

PS pay cut was 2 years ago Frank?

So you have not heard about SNAs being cut, disability being cut, the kites been flown that childrens allowence will be cut. Hows about cuts to private sector pension tax reliefs..It was bad enough people trying to put money by for that...now its even less affordable..but we can sleep sound at night knowing our taxes will cover the shortfall for the public sector pensions.. What about increases in class sizes, Hospitals being closed down. Or hows about year in year out my taxes going up that cuts my take home pay. What about the 5 companies that have gone to the wall per week since the start of 2010 frank, what about the cuts they have faced..And even with your one shining example of how bad the private sector is being the banks...all of them have or will be making redundancies... Is that enough for you Frank. Do you want to link you to the past 5 budgets?? As for your increments..this money which is gauged to be about 1/4 of a billion each year has to be got from somewhere is in addition to the wage that is being paid..The person being paid it goes up in both gross and net take home pay ..There for it is a pay raise...You guys crack me up with this and then have the sheer cheek to say that the pension levy is a pay cut.

RobbieTheRobber · 21-11-2012 05:25PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Ok what do you work at Frank?

PS pay cut was 2 years ago Frank?

So you have not heard about SNAs being cut, disability being cut, the kites been flown that childrens allowence will be cut. Hows about cuts to private sector pension tax reliefs..It was bad enough people trying to put money by for that...now its even less affordable..but we can sleep sound at night knowing our taxes will cover the shortfall for the public sector pensions.. What about increases in class sizes, Hospitals being closed down. Or hows about year in year out my taxes going up that cuts my take home pay. What about the 5 companies that have gone to the wall per week since the start of 2010 frank, what about the cuts they have faced..And even with your one shining example of how bad the private sector is being the banks...all of them have or will be making redundancies... Is that enough for you Frank. Do you want to link you to the past 5 budgets?? As for your increments..this money which is gauged to be about 1/4 of a billion each year has to be got from somewhere is in addition to the wage that is being paid..The person being paid it goes up in both gross and net take home pay ..There for it is a pay raise...You guys crack me up with this and then have the sheer cheek to say that the pension levy is a pay cut.

Solid wall of text has offended my eyes!

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 05:27PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Solid wall of text has offended my eyes!

No one asked you to look

RobbieTheRobber · 21-11-2012 05:29PM

fliball123 wrote: »

No one asked you to look

Now now dont be like that, no one asked you to type it either!

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 05:31PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Now now dont be like that, no one asked you to type it either!

lol good man Robbie give yourself an increment...its good to see your not in bad form these days

frankosw · 21-11-2012 05:36PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Ok what do you work at Frank?

PS pay cut was 2 years ago Frank?

So you have not heard about SNAs being cut, disability being cut, the kites been flown that childrens allowence will be cut. Hows about cuts to private sector pension tax reliefs..It was bad enough people trying to put money by for that...now its even less affordable..but we can sleep sound at night knowing our taxes will cover the shortfall for the public sector pensions.. What about increases in class sizes, Hospitals being closed down. Or hows about year in year out my taxes going up that cuts my take home pay. What about the 5 companies that have gone to the wall per week since the start of 2010 frank, what about the cuts they have faced..And even with your one shining example of how bad the private sector is being the banks...all of them have or will be making redundancies... Is that enough for you Frank. Do you want to link you to the past 5 budgets?? As for your increments..this money which is gauged to be about 1/4 of a billion each year has to be got from somewhere is in addition to the wage that is being paid..The person being paid it goes up in both gross and net take home pay ..There for it is a pay raise...You guys crack me up with this and then have the sheer cheek to say that the pension levy is a pay cut.

They didnt teach you to type in the Private Sector did they?

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 05:39PM

frankosw wrote: »

They didnt teach you to type in the Private Sector did they?

attack the post not the poster frank and if I was working into public sector I would probably get an increment or offered to go early for my pension

frankosw · 21-11-2012 05:42PM

fliball123 wrote: »

attack the post not the poster frank and if I was working into public sector I would probably get an increment or offered to go early for my pension

You Reckon?

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 05:44PM

frankosw wrote: »

You seem to spend long enough rattling away on boards..must be quiet today.

No Frank off today...what about yourself? are you dossing while I pay your wage?

CSO report on public-private pay gap

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