CSO report on public-private pay gap

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 12:12PM

itzme wrote: »

In another thread I addressed this misconception that you keep propagating, please stop telling this mistruth about the pension levy. For clarity I am quoting the act and linking to it again.
The truth is that the contributions from the pension levy do not go to the pension for public servants and do not give any additional benefit to the payees pension themselves. The money goes to the exchequer. To prove this, I bring your attention to page 9 of the act

untrue as it comes out before taxes so its not a pay cut it is a contribution to a defined benefit one which the private sector tax has to pay the difference when the majority cannot afford their own...As for your other point..Does your car tax go to pay for fixing our roads ..No it doesnt. Does our PRSI go to paying your OAP ..No it doesnt...all monies garnered by the gov goes into one big melting pot nothing is set aside for anything as is expenditure all monies come out of this pot with the exception of what has to be borrowed...So one one side you have the pension levy coming in and on the other side we have existing pensions being paid out of this pot..

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 12:14PM

ardmacha wrote: »

Presumably if people in the PS earning over €30k can "afford" to "take a hit" then everyone earning over €30k can afford to pay more tax?

Yeah the probably can..Not a lot do as I have pointed out I would start with the guys on the higher wage in the PS when I say 30k I would maybe ask for 1/2% on money earned over 30k and under 40k and ramp the % up the higher they are paid..there is room for another tax rate at about 80/90k at maybe 50% ...

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 12:15PM

kceire wrote: »

I look forward to the tax payer paying my mortgage again then.
After the last round of cuts, i then qualified for FIS. Might get more now in January

Well providing your prepared to give your house back and let it be sold and then you take what the difference is and pay it back over a certain period..No one should be looking for the tax payer to pay a mortgage...You made the decision to buy no one else

frankosw · 21-11-2012 12:17PM

fliball123 wrote: »

untrue as it comes out before taxes so its not a pay cut it is a contribution to a defined benefit one which the private sector tax has to pay the difference when the majority cannot afford their own...As for your other point..Does your car tax go to pay for fixing our roads ..No it doesnt. Does our PRSI go to paying your OAP ..No it doesnt...all monies garnered by the gov goes into one big melting pot nothing is set aside for anything as is expenditure all monies come out of this pot with the exception of what has to be borrowed...So one one side you have the pension levy coming in and on the other side we have existing pensions being paid out of this pot..

Can i just ask how you know so much about the administration of Govt expenditure?

You obviously have insider information on the way the revenue system works..

frankosw · 21-11-2012 12:20PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Yeah the probably can..Not a lot do as I have pointed out I would start with the guys on the higher wage in the PS when I say 30k I would maybe ask for 1/2% on money earned over 30k and under 40k and ramp the % up the higher they are paid..there is room for another tax rate at about 80/90k at maybe 50% ...

Would you indeed?

This is the Irish Economy forum not "what I would do if i was in charge of the country".

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 12:40PM

frankosw wrote: »

I dont know what you mean by proof..i personally saw it happening for around a decade.

Graduates were by far the worst offenders closesly followed by older people "going back to work"..they just didnt feel it worth their while to get up in the morning for the sort of wages that they were being paid.

One friend of mine who was working in Oracle in Dublin told me i was on "Shiite money" and sneered at me before telling me how much money she was on.

Fast forward a few years and the exact same girl is telling me how she wishes she had a public sector job as all she can get is contract work....really? Well she had her chance and dint take it.

People just doent want to be responsible for thier own choices,they just have a need to point the finger and say "Cut them because i dont work there".

No its cut them because we cant and I will bold and underline this afford them

srsly78 · 21-11-2012 12:42PM

frankosw wrote: »

Fast forward a few years and the exact same girl is telling me how she wishes she had a public sector job as all she can get is contract work....really? Well she had her chance and dint take it.

Contract work in IT pays better than salaried work, dunno what she is complaining about.

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 12:44PM

frankosw wrote: »

Can i just ask how you know so much about the administration of Govt expenditure?

You obviously have insider information on the way the revenue system works..

Its just basic book keeping any organisation that is ran they have an over all booking keeping tab. There may be departmental ones and I would hazard a guess that the troika who are giving us 2 million an hour would not only like dept broken down but would like an overall income vs expenditure to see how we are doing

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 12:48PM

frankosw wrote: »

Would you indeed?

This is the Irish Economy forum not "what I would do if i was in charge of the country".

Well let me put that back at you Frank, you know the situation we are in. How would you go about fixing the deficit. I know I am seen as a PS basher, but I also think we need more taxes , we also need to cut the dole. These 2 areas along with PS pay and pensions are the ones that the goverment are supposedly taking off the tables...but taxes will be raised either by USC or by stealth and disability and other forms of social welfare will be cut regardless of labour..So why should the other leg in the tripod being ps pay and pensions remain untouched in the budget this year?

Gumbo · 21-11-2012 12:51PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Well providing your prepared to give your house back and let it be sold and then you take what the difference is and pay it back over a certain period..No one should be looking for the tax payer to pay a mortgage...You made the decision to buy no one else

No need to hand it back, i like my house

What i do mean is that when my wages are cut again, my FIS will go up and thus continue to pay my mortgage.

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 12:55PM

kceire wrote: »

No need to hand it back, i like my house
What i do mean is that when my wages are cut again, my FIS will go up and thus continue to pay my mortgage.

Ahh k I misunderstood..Look KC I know your on the lower end of the PS scale...so once again I dont want guys who are not earning under 30k touched..Everyone is struggling..but like I asked frank on the tripod that sites the Irish economy that being what we pay in tax..the tripod of expenditure being banks bailouts , ps pay and pensions and socail welfare...Surely it would be fair to say we should and will tax more..We will be cutting welfare and the gov are working on trying to pay less for the banking fcuk up...So why should the other leg of the tripod in expenditure PS Pay and pensions not also be hit in the next 12 months

sarumite · 21-11-2012 01:06PM

frankosw wrote: »

I dont know what you mean by proof..i personally saw it happening for around a decade.

Graduates were by far the worst offenders closesly followed by older people "going back to work"..they just didnt feel it worth their while to get up in the morning for the sort of wages that they were being paid.

One friend of mine who was working in Oracle in Dublin told me i was on "Shiite money" and sneered at me before telling me how much money she was on.

Fast forward a few years and the exact same girl is telling me how she wishes she had a public sector job as all she can get is contract work....really? Well she had her chance and dint take it.

People just doent want to be responsible for thier own choices,they just have a need to point the finger and say "Cut them because i dont work there".

Again, kind of moot since the PS demanded and received benchmarking during the boom period. However you will have to forgive me if I feel that the unsubstantiated experience of an anonymous poster on a internet forum doesn't actually represent the whole of the PS.

sarumite · 21-11-2012 01:07PM

frankosw wrote: »

Would you indeed?

This is the Irish Economy forum not "what I would do if i was in charge of the country".

Its a discussion forum on the Irish economy.

frankosw · 21-11-2012 01:28PM

[QUOTE=fliball123;81857668So why should the other leg of the tripod in expenditure PS Pay and pensions not also be hit in the next 12 months[/QUOTE]

Firstly because its protected by the PSA til 2014 and secondly because its not actually needed.

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 02:26PM

frankosw wrote: »

Firstly because its protected by the PSA til 2014 and secondly because its not actually needed.

It is needed whats not needed is one leg of our expenditure actually going up in increments ...Only someone wihtin the ps would say its not needed...in hours time another 2 million will be borrowed to pay this....its not needed..are you for real

frankosw · 21-11-2012 02:32PM

fliball123 wrote: »

It is needed whats not needed is one leg of our expenditure actually going up in increments ...Only someone wihtin the ps would say its not needed...in hours time another 2 million will be borrowed to pay this....its not needed..are you for real

Well the troika and the govt dont seem to think it is but then you seem to know better with your talk of "tripods" and "pots" into which money goes.

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 02:38PM

frankosw wrote: »

Well the troika and the govt dont seem to think it is but then you seem to know better with your talk of "tripods" and "pots" into which money goes.

Sorry last time I checked the IMF has told the gov that our Public serants are paid too well..and Brenner howling as of this morning has said the ps need to deliver another 1 billion in savings by the end of the cpa if it is to remain in tact...The basic fact is we are already over taxed and as seen by the household revolt there is not a lot of room to maneuver, so answer my question how would you bridge the deficit

frankosw · 21-11-2012 03:17PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Sorry last time I checked the IMF has told the gov that our Public serants are paid too well.

Check again and post the link where

the IMF told the gov that our Public serants are paid too well.

fliball123 wrote: »

.The basic fact is we are already over taxed and as seen by the household revolt there is not a lot of room to maneuver,

Sorry but what exactly is the "household revolt"?

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 03:23PM

frankosw wrote: »

Check again and post the link where

Sorry but what exactly is the "household revolt"?

http://trueeconomics.blogspot.ie/2012/06/1662012-imf-report-on-ireland-public.html

http://www.irishcentral.com/story/roots/ireland_calling/scandal-over-public-service-pensions-continues-as-imf-calls-time-on-state-workers--169445946.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0910/breaking33.html

a few different takes on ps pay and pensions there

The 40/45% of householders who have not paid the household tax...As I say and you keep dodging the question..How would you bridge the deficit...

frankosw · 21-11-2012 03:28PM

fliball123 wrote: »

http://trueeconomics.blogspot.ie/2012/06/1662012-imf-report-on-ireland-public.html ...

The authorities’ approach, thus far, has helped keep industrial peace, protect frontline services, raise public sector productivity, and deliver agreed savings in a durable way

Thanks for backing up my point with your own stats

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 03:49PM

frankosw wrote: »

Thanks for backing up my point with your own stats

The only reason why the ps wage has not been touched is due to the threat of industrial action..which is why the social welfare is an easy target for the likes of you...so thats all you got from the 3 links I provided...

frankosw · 21-11-2012 03:58PM

fliball123 wrote: »

The only reason why the ps wage has not been touched ..

But it has..all workers took a compulsary paycut a couple of years back.

Did you not know about it or does it not suit your ranting to mention it?

frankosw · 21-11-2012 03:59PM

fliball123 wrote: »

which is why the social welfare is an easy target for the likes of you.

And so it should be..its more than double what they pay in the UK and its more than enough to deter some people for bothering to look for work.

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 04:01PM

frankosw wrote: »

But it has..all workers took a compulsary paycut a couple of years back.

Did you not know about it or does it not suit your ranting to mention it?

Yeah a couple of years back..do you not realise the situation has deteriorated..and by your sense of getting a cut a few years back would mean by your logic we shouldn't have to pay more taxes as people have taken a hit in paying taxes year in year out over the last 5 years...same goes with social welfare and yet both of these will be hit in the upcoming budget....I am not ranting..I have asked you a number of times to provide some light on how you would bring the deficit back or do you think it is prudent to borrow 2 million an hour forever?

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 04:04PM

frankosw wrote: »

And so it should be..its more than double what they pay in the UK and its more than enough to deter some people for bothering to look for work.

I agree with you on social welfare but by your own admission they took a few cuts over the last few years so why should they be cut again?

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 04:07PM

frankosw wrote: »

And so it should be..its more than double what they pay in the UK and its more than enough to deter some people for bothering to look for work.

While your doing the comparisons of social welfare with the UK do the same for the public sector pay and pensions..there is as big a gap in that as there is in social welfare..Your putting yourself into a corner here frank

frankosw · 21-11-2012 04:08PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Yeah a couple of years back..do you not realise the situation has deteriorated..and by your sense of getting a cut a few years back would mean by your logic we shouldn't have to pay more taxes as people have taken a hit in paying taxes year in year out over the last 5 years...same goes with social welfare and yet both of these will be hit in the upcoming budget.?

fliball123 wrote: »

.I am not ranting..

Oh but you are!

fliball123 wrote: »

I have asked you a number of times to provide some light on how you would bring the deficit back

This thread isnt about that..you just picked it up and ran with it.

PFI · 21-11-2012 04:09PM

frankosw wrote: »

And so it should be..its more than double what they pay in the UK and its more than enough to deter some people for bothering to look for work.

Not some, many, I would say most of those on JA, especially with families and small kids don't even bother to look for oficially advertised jobs, opting instead for generous SW benefits and some unofficial full or part-time work, making living better than of the overtaxed working middle class families with kids, who curently barely survive under heavy tax load and extremely high child care/medical/transportation costs assosiated with employment.

frankosw · 21-11-2012 04:10PM

fliball123 wrote: »

While your doing the comparisons of social welfare with the UK do the same for the public sector pay and pensions..there is as big a gap in that as there is in social welfare..Your putting yourself into a corner here frank

Really?

I think you will find that there isnt.

Far too much money being given to people not to work in this country..what they do over there with SW makes far more sense.

fliball123 · 21-11-2012 04:11PM

frankosw wrote: »

Oh but you are!

This thread isnt about that..you just picked it up and ran with it.

What ever Frank..have a look at the disparity between the UK and Ireland for public sector wages and get back to me...You pick arguments and then when your turned into a corner you deflect..I am waiting for a bleeding heart story about a nurse who works 20 hours a day in A&E blah blah...Anyone who thinks they are going to be immune to cuts while we are borrowing 2 million an hour is either deluded, crazy or just not looking at reality..take your pick Frank

CSO report on public-private pay gap

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