Garda now admit state has lost war on drugs

Grayson · 19-11-2012 10:33AM

Hamiltonion wrote: »

Where can I buy this magical E10 gram of weed that lasts a week? More like E50 for 3-4g of variable quality, would last average user 1-2 weeks

As I said with my comparison with alcohol. A gram would get myself and my friends stoned for a night. The same way a bottle of whiskey would get us drunk. If it was just me, it'd last a week or two. And the price of €10 is the price in the netherlands. Realisticly I'd be looking to pay €30-€35 for 1-1.5gms in ireland from a criminal.

Criminals couldn't undercut legitmitately grown weed so long as the government don't tax it excessively. I think it'd be brillant if the government got the money instead.

With regards to the morality of buying from dealers.
I haven't eaten a nestle produce in years. I try to source my clothes from reputible firms the same with stuff like coffee.
I was so disappointed when I found out that my crispy pancakes were made by a subsidary of nestle.

I haven't bought marajuana in years (well, not in ireland). But before anyone here starts taking a dig at marajuana smokers they should seriously take a look at their own lives. Nestle are responsible for the deaths of babies and I doubt many people here are going to give up their yorkies etc...

Leftist · 19-11-2012 10:47AM

LostBoy101 wrote: »

Legalising drugs is like a receipe for disaster. Take long-term marijuana smoking for example, does increasing tax stop them from smoking? No because it's addictive and this will apply to dangerous illegal drugs.

The only way to prevent big amount of drugs coming in is to increase the security strictness on the harbours.

AeoNGriM · 19-11-2012 11:30AM

nevaeh-2die-4 wrote: »

i for one would not like to see drugs legal ,i don't want to see 300 rehab centres set up across the country because we have decided to drop the law and contribute to the downfall of Irish society

i have children and don't want them exposed to this crap, imagine if weed was legal that's all you would smell when you walk around town if we sell it in shops..

i lived next door to someone who smoked weed all day, the smell inside my house was sicking, the smell would come into my children's bedroom,there room became un usable as the smell was so strong. thankfully i left, but this is what your up against, some people might be ok with this I'm not.

Drugs dealers will undercut the price and you will get more for you money, the drug dealers will always win.they will also benefit from the relaxed laws.

Every time these threads come up people say tax it, why introduce more drugs for the sake of money, its not as if we would ever see anything from tax, we will see tax increases and property taxes each year

I know my opinion wont go down well with the pro druggies, I'm not "backing up my facts" its just my opinion like or lump it.

not matter happens nobody will win the drug war with that said it doesnt mean we have to change our laws.

i await the back lash of my "joe Duffy brigade" view

But it's ok for them to grow up in a culture where binge drinking is the norm, even encouraged?

It's ok for them to walk past 2 or three pubs and off licenses on every street?

It's ok for them to see empty beer cans and vodka bottles strewn everywhere?

It's ok for them to see people punching the face off each other after downing 17 pints?

It's ok for them to see alcoholics aggressively hassling people in town?

It's ok for them to grow up in a society where alcohol and tobacco related illnesses are the leading cause of death ie heart disease and stroke?

:rolleyes:

kupus · 19-11-2012 11:41AM

Step one to be on the road to recovery is to admit you have a problem. So well done gardai for that.
Step two ????
Step three PROFIT.

Im Rick James b**ch....I'm rich.

uberalles · 19-11-2012 11:44AM

I don't smoke myself.

Idea - The rent a room scheme could be extended to a "grow a room" allowing people struggling with their mortgages to make some extra cash.

This might help so many ppl with these distressed mortgages as well to relax a bit

The "distill a room" scheme will probably never happen in my life time though.

Now where did I leave them skins ......

Yakult · 19-11-2012 11:52AM

Spiritual wrote: »

People should begin today by not handing money to drug dealers.

I stopped giving criminals my money a long time ago. That is always one argument people try and use against me "You are supporting the criminals by smoking weed". Thankfully I dont have to buy that grit shit anymore, I can call my friend and 15 minutes later I have some beautiful pure home grown bud that is not laced with something harmful

Decriminalize the weed and let people grow small amounts for personal use. Its what I will be doing after the new year. More should do the same. Its pretty easy and loads of info on line.

Caliden · 19-11-2012 11:53AM

Maybe not legalise but perhaps decriminalise like Portugal.
'Experts' said it would turn Portugal into a drug haven but the opposite happened -
http://www.businessinsider.com/portugal-drug-policy-decriminalization-works-2012-7

Addiction rates have been halved in the 10 years since it's introduction.

MagicSean · 19-11-2012 12:02PM

AeoNGriM wrote: »

But it's ok for them to grow up in a culture where binge drinking is the norm, even encouraged?

It's ok for them to walk past 2 or three pubs and off licenses on every street?

It's ok for them to see empty beer cans and vodka bottles strewn everywhere?

It's ok for them to see people punching the face off each other after downing 17 pints?

It's ok for them to see alcoholics aggressively hassling people in town?

It's ok for them to grow up in a society where alcohol and tobacco related illnesses are the leading cause of death ie heart disease and stroke?

:rolleyes:

No. I agree that it is hypocritical. But all that means is alcohol should be restricted more.

Iwannahurl · 19-11-2012 12:02PM

realies wrote: »

"Couldn't we legalise it and tax it?"

So can we ? It would take a lot of the violence from the drug gangs and create Jobs and tax income, Will Ireland take the huge step and decriminalise class b/c drugs ?

Yes, and then everything will be hunky-dory, as it is with alcohol.

Oh wait: http://www.nacd.ie/images/stories/docs/publicationa/nacd_a1_alcoholconsum_final.pdf

Iwannahurl · 19-11-2012 12:15PM

Caliden wrote: »

Maybe not legalise but perhaps decriminalise like Portugal.
'Experts' said it would turn Portugal into a drug haven but the opposite happened -
http://www.businessinsider.com/portugal-drug-policy-decriminalization-works-2012-7

Addiction rates have been halved in the 10 years since it's introduction.

Portugal is a very interesting case, and one well worth investigating and considering.

Their approach is not simply decriminalisation, though. Policies and programmes based on Public Health and Harm Reduction principles are key aspects of the Portuguese strategy.

http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/attachements.cfm/att_137215_EN_PolicyProfile_Portugal_WEB_Final.pdf

AeoNGriM · 19-11-2012 12:45PM

MagicSean wrote: »

No. I agree that it is hypocritical. But all that means is alcohol should be restricted people should be educated more.

FYP.

Restricting alcohol and doing nothing to change this countrys culture of alcohol and binge drinking will fail miserably.

MagicSean · 19-11-2012 12:52PM

AeoNGriM wrote: »

FYP.

Restricting alcohol and doing nothing to change this countrys culture of alcohol and binge drinking will fail miserably.

You kinda missed my point. Arguing that cannabis should be legal because alcholo is more dangerous is not a logical argument for legalising cannabis. It is an argument for making alcohol illegal.

Grayson · 19-11-2012 01:00PM

MagicSean wrote: »

You kinda missed my point. Arguing that cannabis should be legal because alcholo is more dangerous is not a logical argument for legalising cannabis. It is an argument for making alcohol illegal.

Unless you determine that there is an acceptable level of harm and alcohol is under it. In which case so in marajuana.

Mr Benevolent · 19-11-2012 01:12PM

LostBoy101 wrote: »

Legalising drugs is like a receipe for disaster. Take long-term marijuana smoking for example, does increasing tax stop them from smoking? No because it's addictive and this will apply to dangerous illegal drugs.

The only way to prevent big amount of drugs coming in is to increase the security strictness on the harbours.

Not very logical, that. The only way is to reduce demand, and that will happen with legalisation and education programmes, with the spinoff off reduce the enforcement bills. Its working in Portugal.

charlemont · 19-11-2012 01:16PM

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cases-too-complex-as-whitecollar-convictions-plummet-3297189.html

More like too much effort involved..

Much easier to bring people to court for smoking..

Odysseus · 19-11-2012 01:23PM

I spend most of my working life either with addicts, teaching about addiction or learning about it. I would like to see people getting access to whatever it is they use. Let people use and take responsibility for it; and for those who want to move on or need help use our facilities to work with them.

rubberdiddies · 19-11-2012 01:39PM

i'm still on the fence in relation to legalising cannabis.

on one hand and in theory it should result in a lower price, resulting in less crime to pay for it.......it would brink in much needed tax......it should free up garda and court resources and jail spaces.

on the other hand, it is used as a stepping stone to other drugs, this really is a fact for a lot of people. Most peoples first drug is cannabis........more young kids will have access to it, same as they have access to alcohol now.....secondhand smoke will be a problem for people.......we don't truly know the affect it has on people (the risk of lung cancer is 20 times higher than just smoking a cigarette for example.....there are studies showing a link to schizophrenia, I personally know someone who has been left with schizophrenia for the past 15 years due to heavy use)

i'm currently leaning towards it remaining illegal, though i'm sure anyway it wont be legalised here anytime in the near or distant future

MagicSean · 19-11-2012 01:43PM

Economically it makes sense. The money saved from providing legal aid alone to people prosecuted for simple posession would probably go along way to counselling and information services.

the_syco · 19-11-2012 01:49PM

kupus wrote: »

Only problem is the friggin NIMBY brigade and their never ending crusades to do right by themselves and themselves only.

Lets set up such a shop in Donegal.

The reasons;
Next to that border to the UK
They want job creation up there
Lots of room to build greenhouses
They seem to hate the government up there

=-=

OD on alcohol; death
OD on weed; make up a few hours later with serious munchies

MagicSean wrote: »

The reality would be quite different though. First you have the issue of licensing and sourcing imports.

Where do you get it from? Get seeds from the Amsterdam, liaise with stores in the USA who currently sell it to help set up the stores.

How do you ensure you are not funding crime in another country because you can be sure they won't appreciate it if you are. Maybe we should focus domestic production? Of course it'd be grown domestically, to ensure it's grown with nothing added afterwards that could produce unwanted effects.

Do you let people grow as much as they want or do you licence large scale production. License large scale productions to produce it, and legalise the growth of it but with the limit of 3 plants for personal use, to discourage home growing for exportation, and allows the police to bust illegal grow houses.

How would you secure such a large growing facility from interference or theft? Have it in a large secure facility, in a well lit fenced area.

Who distributes the stuff? Chemists? Off licences? Anyone? Specialized shops that need a license to keep a count on the amount of shops, and so that they can ensure that their product comes from legit grow-houses to ensure it doesn't come from local dealers.

What limits do you put on distribution? Over 20's only, as it has a negative effect on children and teenagers brains. Once your brain is fully formed, you'll need a lot more to cause the same damage. Although teenagers will still smoke it, such as some still get their hands on alcohol, it'll be the minority. Also, if a shop gets caught selling to minors, they get fined after their entire supply is incinerated.

Will you tax it? Yes

At what rate? Unknown, as I don't know how much it costs to make it. It could be as much as 50%, though.

How do you get customers away from the dealers? Cheaper prices, and a product that is not only better, but always better. Also, different strains that are labeled.

How do you protect the legitimate sellers from the dealers who want to protect their income? Heavier sentences for dealers; give them more of a reason not to become known to the law.

kingtiger · 19-11-2012 02:02PM

rubberdiddies wrote: »

it is used as a stepping stone to other drugs, this really is a fact for a lot of people. Most peoples first drug is cannabis

this auld nugget again, Alcohol \ Caffeine is the first drug most people encounter

as for hash being a gateway drug, where do you go buy this drug?

that's right an illegal street dealer who my not have any hash and says "why not try this instead"

120_Minutes · 19-11-2012 02:03PM

Luke Flanagan to bring cannabis legislation bill before the dail next April. Article in today's examiner.

Call Me Jimmy · 19-11-2012 02:06PM

I take it bringing a bill into the dail has little likelihood of succeeding / has happened before?

120_Minutes · 19-11-2012 02:09PM

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

I take it bringing a bill into the dail has little likelihood of succeeding / has happened before?

I may be wrong but this might be his first attempt as a TD.

Call Me Jimmy · 19-11-2012 02:10PM

A cause I would actually campaign for except for the opening yourself up to 'hippy' jabs and the like.
I couldn't deal with someone calling me a hippy.

Sofiztikated · 19-11-2012 02:13PM

MagicSean wrote: »

No. I agree that it is hypocritical. But all that means is alcohol should be restricted more.

No. Restriction doesn't educate people. Restriction like that makes more criminals. Education is the key. Proper education.

rubberdiddies wrote: »

i'm still on the fence in relation to legalising cannabis.

on one hand and in theory it should result in a lower price, resulting in less crime to pay for it.......it would brink in much needed tax......it should free up garda and court resources and jail spaces.

on the other hand, it is used as a stepping stone to other drugs, this really is a fact for a lot of people. Most peoples first drug is cannabis........more young kids will have access to it, same as they have access to alcohol now.....secondhand smoke will be a problem for people.......we don't truly know the affect it has on people (the risk of lung cancer is 20 times higher than just smoking a cigarette for example.....there are studies showing a link to schizophrenia, I personally know someone who has been left with schizophrenia for the past 15 years due to heavy use)

i'm currently leaning towards it remaining illegal, though i'm sure anyway it wont be legalised here anytime in the near or distant future

Most peoples first drug is not cannabis. Alcohol is. Alcohol plays a huge factor in what people are willing to take/eat/smoke/snort/use.

There are studies. Yes. But results are interpreted by whoever wants to bend them to their will. A lot studies start with the answer they want.

Can I please have this link to this "study" that cannabis smoke is 20 times more carcinogenic than tobacco? Is it this one? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1277837/ Where it says in line 7, that why tobacco smoke, but not cannabis smoke, causes lung cancer?

Or this one? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16128224 where it says

On the other hand, physiologic, clinical or epidemiologic evidence that marijuana smoking may lead to chronic obstructive pulmonary disease or respiratory cancer is limited and inconsistent.

As for the "cause" of schizophrenia. There are as many studies that dispute it as confirm it.

And more young kids will have access to marijuana? More? Seriously? As it is, cannabis can be easier to obtain than alcohol. If you think kids can't access it at the moment, you are very much mistaken.

jasonmcco · 19-11-2012 02:20PM

http://alcoholireland.ie/alcohol-facts/alcohol-related-harm-facts-and-statistics/

PERSON DIES EVERY 7 HOURS IN IRELAND DUE TO ALCOHOL.

Either all drugs are banned or all drugs are legal.

My position is legalise them all and allow people to choose which drug they want to use and stop them being corralled into using a very damaging and legal drug(alcohol).

It's all about money for the alcohol dealers and keeping the sheep ill informed.

Sofiztikated · 19-11-2012 02:23PM

jasonmcco wrote: »

http://alcoholireland.ie/alcohol-facts/alcohol-related-harm-facts-and-statistics/

PERSON DIES EVERY 7 HOURS IN IRELAND DUE TO ALCOHOL.

Either all drugs are banned or all drugs are legal.

My position is legalise them all and allow people to choose which drug they want to use and stop them being corralled into using a very damaging and legal drug(alcohol).

It's all about money for the alcohol dealers and keeping the sheep ill informed.

See, as soon as you say "The Sheep" or the variation "Speeple," you are immediately come across as an idiot.

Don't use it.

Ash.J.Williams · 19-11-2012 02:26PM

slavetothegrind wrote: »

i'll trade you the legalisation you wish if you allow me direct the judiciary to remove use/abuse of drugs/alcahol as an excuse or mitigating factor in any illegal behaviour.

and so it should be

Grayson · 19-11-2012 02:27PM

rubberdiddies wrote: »

i'm still on the fence in relation to legalising cannabis.

on one hand and in theory it should result in a lower price, resulting in less crime to pay for it.......it would brink in much needed tax......it should free up garda and court resources and jail spaces.

on the other hand, it is used as a stepping stone to other drugs, this really is a fact for a lot of people. Most peoples first drug is cannabis........more young kids will have access to it, same as they have access to alcohol now.....secondhand smoke will be a problem for people.......we don't truly know the affect it has on people (the risk of lung cancer is 20 times higher than just smoking a cigarette for example.....there are studies showing a link to schizophrenia, I personally know someone who has been left with schizophrenia for the past 15 years due to heavy use)

i'm currently leaning towards it remaining illegal, though i'm sure anyway it wont be legalised here anytime in the near or distant future

Re: schizophrenia. I read a study that said people that are predisposed to schizophrenia were more likely to be marajuana smokers. So they really weren't sure if it was a chicken or egg scenario. Does it make people schizophrenics or do schizophrenics smoke it. Honestly, a lot more research is needed. And even though it's not legal now, I'm glad there's more discussion because until a few years ago it was illegal to even investigate marajuana.

btw, I read that marajuana has something like 6-10 times more tar than tobacco. However people smoke reletively small amounts compared to tobacco. And on the plus side, al least bongs can be used.
I gave up smoking cigarettes and should I smoke marajuana again, I'll probably use a bong because I don't want to end up smoking cigarettes again.

Even without legalising for general consumption i do believe it should be legal for medicinal use. It's of fantastic value to people on chemo or with MS. to compare it with recent events, it's like legalising abortion to save the life of the mother. It doesn't mean legalising for on demand abortion. They are two separate matters.

Ash.J.Williams · 19-11-2012 02:28PM

LostBoy101 wrote: »

Legalising drugs is like a receipe for disaster. Take long-term marijuana smoking for example, does increasing tax stop them from smoking? No because it's addictive and this will apply to dangerous illegal drugs.

The only way to prevent big amount of drugs coming in is to increase the security strictness on the harbours.

how will that stop the grow houses "epidemic"

Garda now admit state has lost war on drugs

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