Garda now admit state has lost war on drugs

Piliger · 18-11-2012 10:10PM

Spiritual wrote: »

Ok, I am more or less on the side of legalised drugs as it shows a mature society but I still need to understand from one of the advocates that take drugs why morally do you not desist from purchasing them from drug dealers?

The news is covered in the death and misery these people you are funding cause.

You are being naive or disingenuous or just silly.

You can apply that 'question' to almost anything that is 'bad' for us. Alcohol and tobacco ? They cost the tax payers billions every year to treat cancer and addictions. Is that moral ? Sweets cost the taxpayer to treat dental decay.

Your suggestion that no one should do anything that you consider immoral or that costs the country ... is risible.

Human beings have been taking drugs for tens of thousands of years, even longer. It is part of human society and cannot be washed away with morality lessons.

Our society needs to wake up and learn to accommodate this section of society in a way that does least damage to them and least damage to the rest of us.

I have never taken drugs - I just don't see the attraction. I think it's dumb and stupid. But I don't believe in making them into criminals. That is even dumber !

Take the billions we spend on this asinine war, and divert it into education about drugs and health care to help addicts. It makes MUCH more sense.

Piliger · 18-11-2012 10:12PM

Spiritual wrote: »

Never suggested it.

Sorry ... it was a passing comment and didn't mean to infer you did.

Spiritual · 18-11-2012 10:16PM

Yamanoto wrote: »

Human nature, that's why.

It does not follow that we always make the right decisions, simply because we possess the capacity to do so. But that's pointing out the bleedin' obvious tbh - you know this.

You can implore teenage girls to quit getting pregnant, the lads to take a wee break from glassing each other in the face or fifty-something blokes to forego that last tasty tipple at the Golf club prior to heading home. But folks will continue to engage in myriad patterns of behaviour which may impact themselves and society at large in a negative fashion. These problems are complex, refractory and worth real consideration - which is why the glib line you're pursuing is more than somewhat pointless in the context of the discussion.

I don't think my line is glib.
Human nature is a catch all excuse.

Spiritual · 18-11-2012 10:17PM

mikom wrote: »

Really, well I am still trying to get my head round the vast numbers of people who put their own personal herbicide needs before the unquestionable moral aspect of funding Monsanto.

By the way, you do know what ingestion is?

Yes.

Sofiztikated · 18-11-2012 10:19PM

Spiritual wrote: »

Do you purchase yours from this home grown source?
Your comments are about marijuana I assume unless your home grown source is growing coca or poppies?

The pubs and clubs of Ireland will be full of people who are on MDMA, Coke, I am taking an intuitive punt that most of them will have come from organised crime.

Your case is not really the answer I am looking for, I am more interested in a response from one of the "weekend party people".

Yes.

And I can answer for the MDMA case, and a lesser extent, coke.

Most people get them from a guy. Be s/he be a nameless faceless person in a crowd, or someone they know. Now, the people he gets his supply from might have links with organised crime, or it may be further up than that.

People don't associate this guy with organised crime. Why? Many reasons. Ignorance, mostly. Willful or otherwise. They just want to have their fun. I'm guilty of this.

As someone else mentioned, Adidas, Apple, and probably even the manufacturer of the device you are using to view this thread have morally ambiguous links to human rights abuse. Where do you view that?

120_Minutes · 18-11-2012 10:23PM

Sofiztikated wrote: »

As someone else mentioned, Adidas, Apple, and probably even the manufacturer of the device you are using to view this thread have morally ambiguous links to human rights abuse. Where do you view that?

what he's trying to get us to say is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02SAekw7wUo

if it has to be me to say it, so be it.

sorry if my posts seem less than serious. i'm in the process of burning one down.

Sofiztikated · 18-11-2012 10:31PM

TBH, we're very unlikely to see legalisation or regulation in this country any time soon.

This is a country where I cannot purchase an alcoholic drink to take home in an hours time.

Even if we did see legalisation, we have a culture of excess in this country, we wouldn't be able to handle it.

Education is the key, but it won't be done.

MagicSean · 18-11-2012 10:34PM

mikom wrote: »

Rewind a few years........

Condoms are not something you need. They are a luxury. If you don't wish to contribute to crime then simply don't buy them. Simple really.

Are you looking for some kind of reward for most strawman arguments or something?

richy wrote: »

Neither is a smart phone or laptop. But I bet you own one seeing as you are using the internet. Therefore, by your theory you are supporting Chinas human rights abusing government. You keep ignoring this point.

Built my computer myself. It is possible that some of the parts came from a sweat shop in china. I try my best to avoid that and if I do discover it to be true I will no longer use that manufacturer. Same way I will not be getting the latest iphone. The difference being that their are many legitimate manufacturers of electronics out there whereas the same cannot be said for marijuana producers.

But even if I but all my stuff from slave traders and even if I am a hypocrite, it still does not change the fact that when you put money in a dealers hand you are willingly funding organised crime. You can try and deflect responsability or tarnish me for not buying fair trade coffee but it does not negate your responsability. And if you can live with that that's up to you. If you can excuse it with "Everyone else is doing it" that's up to you. You are still funding them.

Offy wrote: »

And what about its medicinal uses? Lets say for example someone with MS? Should they suffer because the law says they cant have it? The law needs to be changed.

I've already said the law needs to be changed. Have you read the thread?

120_Minutes · 18-11-2012 10:36PM

Sofiztikated wrote: »

TBH, we're very unlikely to see legalisation or regulation in this country any time soon.

This is a country where I cannot purchase an alcoholic drink to take home in an hours time.

Even if we did see legalisation, we have a culture of excess in this country, we wouldn't be able to handle it.

Education is the key, but it won't be done.

Sadly, you are correct.

Spiritual · 18-11-2012 10:36PM

Sofiztikated wrote: »

TBH, we're very unlikely to see legalisation or regulation in this country any time soon.

This is a country where I cannot purchase an alcoholic drink to take home in an hours time.

Even if we did see legalisation, we have a culture of excess in this country, we wouldn't be able to handle it.

Education is the key, but it won't be done.

Now that's very defeatist.

But I do agree about the culture of excess, education is the route and moral standings should be apart of that.

People should begin today by not handing money to drug dealers.

120_Minutes · 18-11-2012 10:38PM

MagicSean wrote: »

The difference being that their are many legitimate manufacturers of electronics out there whereas the same cannot be said for marijuana producers.

really? not one? are you 100% sure of that?

120_Minutes · 18-11-2012 10:38PM

Spiritual wrote: »

People should begin today by not handing money to drug dealers.

if i had any kind of a green thumb, i ****ing would.

Sofiztikated · 18-11-2012 10:41PM

MagicSean wrote: »

Are you looking for some kind of reward for most strawman arguments or something?

Built my computer myself. It is possible that some of the parts came from a sweat shop in china. I try my best to avoid that and if I do discover it to be true I will no longer use that manufacturer. Same way I will not be getting the latest iphone. The difference being that their are many legitimate manufacturers of electronics out there whereas the same cannot be said for marijuana producers.

But even if I but all my stuff from slave traders and even if I am a hypocrite, it still does not change the fact that when you put money in a dealers hand you are willingly funding organised crime. You can try and deflect responsability or tarnish me for not buying fair trade coffee but it does not negate your responsability. And if you can live with that that's up to you. If you can excuse it with "Everyone else is doing it" that's up to you. You are still funding them.

I've already said the law needs to be changed. Have you read the thread?

I've pointed out how this is not always the case.

And if it was legalised, this would lessen. Not completely, as there is always someone willing to sell black market goods, cigarettes, booze, perfume, whatever.

Oh, and yes, there are many legitimate producers of cannabis. For example, the Cannabis Cup is on this coming week, in Amsterdam. What about all the weed that is produced for medical marijuana dispensaries in the US and Canada.

MagicSean · 18-11-2012 10:42PM

120_Minutes wrote: »

really? not one? are you 100% sure of that?

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I've pointed out how this is not always the case.

And if it was legalised, this would lessen. Not completely, as there is always someone willing to sell black market goods, cigarettes, booze, perfume, whatever.

If you are happy that your supplier makes it himself and gives you the surplus then fair play to you. Otherwise you're just fooling yourself.

Spiritual · 18-11-2012 10:44PM

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Yes.

And I can answer for the MDMA case, and a lesser extent, coke.

Most people get them from a guy. Be s/he be a nameless faceless person in a crowd, or someone they know. Now, the people he gets his supply from might have links with organised crime, or it may be further up than that.

People don't associate this guy with organised crime. Why? Many reasons. Ignorance, mostly. Willful or otherwise. They just want to have their fun. I'm guilty of this.

As someone else mentioned, Adidas, Apple, and probably even the manufacturer of the device you are using to view this thread have morally ambiguous links to human rights abuse. Where do you view that?

I personally try and take responsible educated choices in all aspects of my life, even to the products I purchase. In fact I gave up a very successful form of income because I had a moral epiphany.

Spiritual · 18-11-2012 10:45PM

120_Minutes wrote: »

if i had any kind of a green thumb, i ****ing would.

Buy a of compost.

120_Minutes · 18-11-2012 10:46PM

MagicSean wrote: »

If you are happy that your supplier makes it himself and gives you the surplus then fair play to you. Otherwise you're just fooling yourself.

I wa not referring to my own situation by asking the question. I was asking if you are 100% certain that there are not many legitimate producers of cannabis, anywhere on the planet.

Spiritual · 18-11-2012 10:47PM

mikom wrote: »

Primal scream of a post.

One of my favourite bands.

120_Minutes · 18-11-2012 10:48PM

Spiritual wrote: »

Buy a of compost.

oh if it were only that simple. I could go on but i may be breaking the forum charter.

Yamanoto · 18-11-2012 10:52PM

Spiritual wrote: »

I don't think my line is glib.

Sure thing chief

Originally Posted by bedrock#1
Right, so what should be done about it then?

Reply by Spiritual
Stop buying them.

Spiritual · 18-11-2012 10:52PM

120_Minutes wrote: »

oh if it were only that simple. I could go on but i may be breaking the forum charter.

Interesting to know the level of arbitration you will not exceed. :P :pac:

Spiritual · 18-11-2012 10:53PM

Yamanoto wrote: »

Sure thing chief

Asked a question, answered it. How is that glib?

120_Minutes · 18-11-2012 10:56PM

Spiritual wrote: »

Interesting to know the level of arbitration you will not exceed. :P :pac:

this aint my first weed thread, i enjoy debating it. it's a subject close to my heart and if i change one mind on it, its one more mind changed.

tdv123 · 18-11-2012 10:58PM

It's for legalization of all drugs then I'm all for it.

If it's just for weed & everything else stays the same I would not be up for that. I'm not supporting some hippy convention.

120_Minutes · 18-11-2012 11:03PM

tdv123 wrote: »

I'm not supporting some hippy convention.

i'm assuming your post is tongue in cheek, so i'll respond in kind:

if the choice is that, or a legalising a drug that turns people into dickheads, and dickheads into bigger dickheads. i'll wear rose coloured glasses and a tie died shirt any day, maaaaaaaaan.

RustyNut · 19-11-2012 01:09AM

Surely the people responsible for empowering the Dunne family,Ma Baker,John Gilligan etc are the legislators who handed them the market for their wares.

Getting high is part of the human condition and there will allways be a demand for recreational drugs, Diageo doing quite well in the alcohol market however alcohol is not for everyone and the people who require other products will get them from somewhere, usually a friend or a friend of a friend, not some gun toting murderous drug lord like those mentioned above.

Prohibition has failed, the biggest danger most recreational drug users face is an encounter with the legal system which can have life long negative consiquences for what is effectively a victimless crime.

Why not legalise all drugs, take the power away from the psycos at the top of the illegal drug trade, stop criminalizing ordinary harmeless people and treat drug addiction as a public health mater not a criminal one.

Just for the record I neither drink alcohol or use recreational drugs.

Chuck Stone · 19-11-2012 02:24AM

MagicSean wrote: »

That's my point. Grass would be much easier to steal and resell than any of those other things.

MagicSean's crystal ball of doom.

poeticseraphim · 19-11-2012 04:50AM

I would not claim to be an expert.

But I would like to have medical ,social and legal and crime experts decide..see how it has affected other countries..

A while back the Netherlands was trying to get rid of it again...but they couldn't..tourism

I would say we would get a lot of tourists....from Britain....

poeticseraphim · 19-11-2012 04:53AM

Lets legalize hookers too....erm I mean Sex industry workers ....

Then in another 20 years ..we may get an abortion ref and Gay marriage

Lets be honest FF and FG would never allow Ireland to become liberal.

Suceed · 19-11-2012 09:42AM

Spiritual wrote: »

Do you purchase yours from this home grown source?
Your comments are about marijuana I assume unless your home grown source is growing coca or poppies?

Your case is not really the answer I am looking for, I am more interested in a response from one of the "weekend party people".

I only snort free trade cocaine myself.

Garda now admit state has lost war on drugs

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