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The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 2)

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Comments

  • #2012
    Masteroid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 352 ✭✭Masteroid


    J C wrote: »
    Bacteria, viruses and other organisms and now often 'agents of disease and death' ... as a direct result of death entering the universe at the 'Fall'.
    Prior to the 'Fall' bacteria and all other organisms lived symbiotically with each other.

    Old age is part of the process of death ... as God put it to Adam ... dying, you shall die.

    Okay, God punished the entire universe because of a fruit-pushing snake but tell me this, do good bacteria go to heaven?


  • #2013
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    MrPudding wrote: »
    No they aren't, and the reasons why they are have been pointed out to you countless times.
    Yes, they are ...
    Creationists are excellent scientists ... so, of course, they ... and people of all faiths and none can be scientists???
    Science is not an Atheistic preserve ... at least not just yet!!!!
    MrPudding wrote: »
    Overreact much? You have been told repeatedly since this cartoon has most recently be posted, and previously when it was posted before IIRC, that it does not suggest neglect. The medic in the cartoon is clearly offering a choice to the idiot patient. He is not attempting to withhold a particular course of treatment, merely asking the patient which he would prefer, so you can quit the faux outrage, intentional misunderstand and strawmanning.
    The 'idiot' patient is another untrue caricature of Creationists ... and it is very clear ... that the doctor has total contempt for his patient ... and his suggestion that he might prescribe an ineffectual and outdated medication, for a life-threatening disease, like TB, that could result in the needless death of the patient is totally outrageous ... and is also an insult to the many good and competent Doctors out there who happen to believe in Evolution ... who wouldn't do such a thing!!!
    MrPudding wrote: »
    As for the paedophile I think Masteroid was merely trying to show unfitness for a particular role. I am sure you would agree that a paedophile would be unsuitable for working in childcare. I would suspect that Masteroid merely believes that someone with the idiotic beliefs of a creationist should not hold certain positions. Again, fairly simple stuff.
    ... a paedophile is a dangerous criminal ... and not merely somebody who is unfit for a particular role.
    ... I have no problem with somebody with the unfounded beliefs of an Evolutionist occupying any role they are competent to discharge!!!
    MrPudding wrote: »
    Of course no one "owns" science, but it does have certain rules. You and your kind can't complain at the treatment you get when you choose not to following those rules because the results you get contradict you goat herder scribed textbook.
    Of course, we follow the rules ... and I'm not complaining, I just have a good laugh when I hear Evolutionists spouting on about what supposedly happened 'millions of years ago' ... when most of them don't even know what happened during the 1950's ... and in some cases, the last Saturday night!!!:eek:
    MrPudding wrote: »
    Meh, it is simply about fitness for the job. Would you prefer alcoholic in charge of a bar? Or perhaps perhaps a convicted fraudster in charge of a religious organisation... oh wait...
    No JC, just no. Grow up.
    ... none of these personal disfunctions have anything to do with whether they believe they are descended from Pondkind ... or Adam and Eve
    MrPudding wrote: »
    Are you completely immune to irony?
    Irony is something I see every day in my interactions with committed Evolutionists!!!:):D
    MrPudding wrote: »
    And for the record, I would not attend a doctor that was a creationist. The fact that a person is a YEC is, as far as I am concerned, evidence of a deficiency or some other mental disorder. There. I said it.
    Ok ... so you admit that you are a bigot and you would practice religious discrimination ... it's progress when you admit this ...
    ... now go do a course on respecting difference in a pluralist multi-cultural society.:(


  • #2014
    Masteroid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 352 ✭✭Masteroid


    J C wrote: »
    That would only be the case if science is some kind of Atheistic religion.

    Hypothetical question:

    If you looked down the tube of a microscope and discovered incontrovertible proof that God had nothing to do with creation, would you share that knowledge with your colleagues; even if it meant that an end to world religion would result, would you publish your research and show the world that God didn't do it?

    I dare you to answer that question.


  • #2015
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Masteroid wrote: »
    No, I am saying that a pacifist should not be put in charge of assembling the detonation device for a bomb. Ridiculous.
    ... a pacifist wouldn't want to be involved in armament production.

    ... this has nothing to do with people of all religions and none being involved in science.

    ... where do you stop? ... do you advocate banning all Roman Catholics from being doctors because their religion bans them from prescribing the pill?
    ... or being surgeons because their religion doesn't allow them to be involved in procured abortion?

    Masteroid wrote: »
    Yes... yes... yes ... and yes.
    Glad we agree on something!!:)


    Masteroid wrote: »
    I'm not looking for support, I'm looking for the correct explanation.
    You're looking for support for Spontaneous Evolution ... failing to find it ... and you're ignoring the correct and obvious explantion for life ... direct intelligent creation.:eek:


  • #2016
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Masteroid wrote: »
    Hypothetical question:

    If you looked down the tube of a microscope and discovered incontrovertible proof that God had nothing to do with creation, would you share that knowledge with your colleagues; even if it meant that an end to world religion would result, would you publish your research and show the world that God didn't do it?

    I dare you to answer that question.
    Yes ... if I found incontrovertible proof that life could arise and spontaneously develop CFSGI by non-intelligently directed means I would publish it.

    Why wouldn't I do so? ... I'd have fame beyond my wildest dreams ...
    ... and I would have to have a serious talk with my fellow Christians about the validity of our belief in a Creator God.


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  • #2017
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Masteroid wrote: »
    Okay, God punished the entire universe because of a fruit-pushing snake but tell me this, do good bacteria go to heaven?
    Yes ... and No.

    The 'fruit' being pushed by the snake was very very bad stuff indeed ... and only Human Beings have eternal spirits that can go to Heaven.


  • #2018
    Sin City
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭Sin City


    J C wrote: »
    Yes ... and No.

    The 'fruit' being pushed by the snake was very very bad stuff indeed ... and only Human Beings have eternal spirits that can go to Heaven.

    Can you prove that ? I mean with out use of the Bible but have actual evidence or a theory to support that ?


  • #2019
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Sin City wrote: »
    Can you prove that ? I mean with out use of the Bible but have actual evidence or a theory to support that ?
    Our personality is out spirit ... and it exists.

    ... the many 'near-death' experiences recalled to emegency room staff by patients who died ... but were resuscitated ... provides tantalising evidence of life beyond the grave.











  • #2020
    Masteroid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 352 ✭✭Masteroid


    J C wrote: »
    You're looking for support for Spontaneous Evolution ... failing to find it ... and you're ignoring the correct and obvious explantion for life ... direct intelligent creation.:eek:

    You are way off the mark there and that's the difference between us, you explain it then try to see it whereas I see it and try to explain it.


  • #2021
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Masteroid wrote: »
    You are way off the mark there and that's the difference between us, you explain it then try to see it whereas I see it and try to explain it.
    We both see the CFSI in living organisms ... you try to explain life via purely mechanistic physical means ... and fail ... I take the obvious (and verifiable) explantion ... intelligent creation.


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  • #2022
    Sin City
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭Sin City


    J C wrote: »
    Our personality is out spirit ... and it exists.

    ... the many 'near-death' experiences recalled to emegency room staff by patients who died ... but were recussitated ... provides tantalising evidence
    ahh no, our personality develops, usually.from our surrounding. envoirment.,it doesnt really provide evidence. ill assume these were christians who saw tge bright light yes? its the brain trying.to comfort the individual, a kind of defence mechanism

    its not real


  • #2023
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Sin City wrote: »
    ahh no, our personality develops, usually.from our surrounding. envoirment.,it doesnt really provide evidence. ill assume these were christians who saw tge bright light yes? its the brain trying.to comfort the individual, a kind of defence mechanism

    its not real
    You could be right ... but I don't think so ... the experiences are so vivid and real ... and accurate about what was going on around the patient when they died. These are no illusions or dreams ... as the brain EEG is 'flatlined' when these experiences are occurring.

    However, one thing is certain ... Near Death Experiences are recounted by people of all faiths and none, including Atheists.

    ... here are accounts of atheist NDE's ... who got a 'peek' at the outer portals of hell ...





    Now is the time for you to be Saved ... please say this prayer ... and mean it:-

    Dear God in heaven, I come to you in the name of Jesus. I acknowledge to You that I am a sinner, and I am sorry for my sins and the life that I have lived; I need your forgiveness.

    I believe that your only begotten Son Jesus Christ shed His precious blood on the cross at Calvary and died for my sins, and I am now willing to turn from my sin.

    You said in Your Holy Word, Romans 10:9 that if we confess the Lord our God and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead, we shall be saved.

    Right now I confess Jesus as the Lord of my soul. With my heart, I believe that God raised Jesus from the dead. This very moment I accept Jesus Christ as my own personal Savior and according to His Word, right now I am saved.

    Thank you Jesus for your unlimited grace which has saved me from my sins. I thank you Jesus that your grace never leads to license, but rather it always leads to repentance. Therefore Lord Jesus transform my life so that I may bring glory and honor to you alone and not to myself.

    Thank you Jesus for dying for me and giving me eternal life.
    Amen.

    If you just said this prayer and you meant it with all your heart, I believe that you just got saved and are born again.


  • #2024
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    J C wrote: »
    and I have no problem in purchasing from them
    Lol :rolleyes:

    Of course not, you are a hypocrite (actually a faux-Christian troll, but you know, both sides of the same coin). You purchase medicine based on evolutionary biology because the medicine works. You then turn around and denounce the scientists who work in evolutionary biology.

    Slow clap


  • #2025
    Sin City
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭Sin City


    J C wrote: »
    You could be right ... but I don't think so ... the experiences are so vivid and real ... and accurate about what was going on around the patient when they died. These are no illusions or dreams ... as the brain EEG is 'flatlined' when these experiences are occurring.

    However, one thing is certain ... Near Death Experiences are recounted by people of all faiths and none, including Atheists.

    ... here are accounts of atheist NDE's ... who got a 'peek' at the outer portals of hell ...





    Now is the time for you to be Saved ... please say this prayer ... and mean it:-

    Dear God in heaven, I come to you in the name of Jesus. I acknowledge to You that I am a sinner, and I am sorry for my sins and the life that I have lived; I need your forgiveness.

    I believe that your only begotten Son Jesus Christ shed His precious blood on the cross at Calvary and died for my sins, and I am now willing to turn from my sin.

    You said in Your Holy Word, Romans 10:9 that if we confess the Lord our God and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead, we shall be saved.

    Right now I confess Jesus as the Lord of my soul. With my heart, I believe that God raised Jesus from the dead. This very moment I accept Jesus Christ as my own personal Savior and according to His Word, right now I am saved.

    Thank you Jesus for your unlimited grace which has saved me from my sins. I thank you Jesus that your grace never leads to license, but rather it always leads to repentance. Therefore Lord Jesus transform my life so that I may bring glory and honor to you alone and not to myself.

    Thank you Jesus for dying for me and giving me eternal life.
    Amen.

    If you just said this prayer and you meant it with all your heart, I believe that you just got saved and are born again.

    I though as athesists they turned away from God yet they got to Heaven, lol so I wouldnt have to be saved would I?

    Seriously though those videos have no credibility and word of mouth does not constitute solid proof or evidence of the existence of God , Heaven or an afterlife. As Im sure you are aware , being a "scientist lol" that eye witness testimony is as clear as mud


  • #2026
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    J C wrote: »

    The 'idiot' patient is another untrue caricature of Creationists
    Idiotic is the perfect description of a YEC's views.
    J C wrote: »
    and it is very clear ... that the doctor has total contempt for his patient ... and his suggestion that he might prescribe an ineffectual and outdated medication, for a life-threatening disease, like TB, that could result in the needless death of the patient is totally outrageous ... and is also an insult to the many good and competent Doctors out there who happen to believe in Evolution ... who wouldn't do such a thing!!!
    No JC, as has been pointed out, the doctor is simply giving the patient a choice because the doctor is being professional a d understands that a persons beliefs, however idiotic and stupid, may influence the treatment they will accept. The doctor never said he would not give the patient the "good" medicine, he merely asked which one the patient would prefer. No question of withholding effective treatment here.
    J C wrote: »
    ... a paedophile is a dangerous criminal ... and not merely somebody who is unfit for a particular role.
    Again, the example one of a person not suitable for a particular job.
    J C wrote: »
    ... I have no problem with somebody with the unfounded beliefs of an Evolutionist occupying any role they are competent to discharge!!!
    Yawn.
    J C wrote: »
    Of course, we follow the rules ... and I'm not complaining, I just have a good laugh when I hear Evolutionists spouting on about what supposedly happened 'millions of years ago' ... when most of them don't even know what happened during the 1950's ... and in some cases, the last Saturday night!!!:eek:
    Again, yawn.
    J C wrote: »
    Irony is something I see every day in my interactions with committed Evolutionists!!!:):D
    Yes, I can imagine. Every time they treat you like a proper scientist you irony would be almost unbearable.
    J C wrote: »
    Ok ... so you admit that you are a bigot and you would practice religious discrimination ... it's progress when you admit this
    It is a little more complicated than this. Whilst I would prefer my doctor to not be religious, I am not really too bothered. The YEC bit goes beyond religion to me. I tolerate people's religious beliefs. I think it is very sad that we, as a species have them, but I understand that some people take comfort from them and could not live their life without them. However much I would prefer it not to be that way, I don't think it will change any time soon. So religious beliefs I can handle. YEC on the other hand goes beyond a religious belief for me. It is so stupid that ridicule and derision really is all it is really due. I find it most unfortunate that that an outlook so obviously stupid and detached form reality qualifies for legal protection, but that is the world we live in. I would prefer that the laws errs on the side of caution and protects something totally unworthy of protection, like YEC, than it goes the other way and something that should be protected, unlike YEC, ends up not being protected.

    That said, whilst YEC does attract protection under discrimination laws, the discrimination laws, in the UK at least, allow for discrimination in certain circumstances. Allowances are made for fitness for a job. I think it is not unreasonable to suggest that a YEC would not be suitable for certain positions, for example, anything to do with real science, sharp implements or something that require two things to be done at the same time, like walking and talking or some such.

    If I get a chance I will do a bot of research to see if there have been any employment tribunal cases involving YEC. If there is I expect I will not be happy with the results, but I will have a look anyway.

    J C wrote: »
    now go do a course on respecting difference in a pluralist multi-cultural society.:(
    Only if you go on a course on the use of ellipses. But seriously, no. I don't have to tolerate abject stupidity in my life. I have no need to hire people and I am lucky enough not to move in circles where there is a high proportion of YEC. Admittedly, there is an element of "don't ask, don't tell" but I am happy with that. I am quite happy for the religious to keep their opinions to themselves, and I will do the same.

    MrP


  • #2027
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Sin City wrote: »
    I though as athesists they turned away from God yet they got to Heaven, lol so I wouldnt have to be saved would I?
    Can I remind you that these people didn't die ... they were resuscitated ... and they had the opportunity to make the decision to be Saved ... or not.
    It looks like people who haven't known or are lukewarm about Jesus Christ do get the opportunity to decide to be Saved at the point of death ... but I wouldn't bet on it, especially if somebody has made a deliberate decision to reject Jesus when alive.
    ... so it would be safer to be Saved before you die ... especially in view of the eternal risks involved ...
    ... it would certainly be better to be Saved ... than to be sorry (for eternity) ... but the decision is entirely up to you!!!
    Sin City wrote: »
    Seriously though those videos have no credibility and word of mouth does not constitute solid proof or evidence of the existence of God , Heaven or an afterlife. As Im sure you are aware , being a "scientist lol" that eye witness testimony is as clear as mud
    I never claimed this to be scientifically validated ... you asked for evidence ... and I gave you eyewitness testimony from people of all faiths and none about their NDEs.
    The eyewitness testimony of people is acceptable evidence in a court of law ... but of course, you may make of it as you see fit.

    I was answering the following question from you:-

    Originally Posted by Sin City
    Can you prove that (life after death) ? I mean with out use of the Bible but have actual evidence or a theory to support that ?

    It is the nature of things that evidence of life after death (because it is in the spiritual realm) cannot be scientifically verified ... although detailed descriptions, from dead persons who are resuscitated, of what was going on in the emergency room when they were dead, with no EEG, is very powerful evidence of the continued exisitence of our personality and intelligence (i.e. our spirits) after death.

    ... however, ultimately the following words of Our Lord are still true about 'skeptics' and their denial of near death experiences ... see the last two verses 30-31 in particular.

    The Rich Man and Lazarus LK 16:19-31

    19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
    22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
    25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
    27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
    29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
    30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
    31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”


  • #2028
    Sin City
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭Sin City


    J C wrote: »
    I never claimed this to be scientifically validated ... I give it to you as eyewitness testimony from people of all faiths and none.
    The eyewitness testimony of people is acceptable evidence in a court of law ... but of course, you make of it as you see fit.

    I was answering the following question from you:-

    Originally Posted by Sin City
    Can you prove that ? I mean with out use of the Bible but have actual evidence or a theory to support that ?

    It is the nature of things that evidence of life after death (because it is in the spiritual realm) cannot be scientifically verified ... although detailed descriptions of what was going on in the emergency room when somebody is dead with no EEG and is resuscitated is very powerful evidence of the continused exisitence of our personality and intelligence after death.

    ... however, ultimately the folowing words of Our Lord are still true about 'skeptics' and the near death experience ... see verses 30-31.

    The Rich Man and Lazarus LK 16:19-31

    19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
    22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
    25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
    27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
    29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
    30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
    31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

    You did not prove using evidence, eye witness testimony isnt evidence, its barely allowable in court, though it can be used to corroboate other actual evidence, it poves nothing on its own, People are prone to making a lot of mistakes or tend to make their ideas fit what actually happened. Bible quotes dont mean anything
    You might aswell be quoting Hansel and Grettle


  • #2029
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Sin City wrote: »
    You did not prove using evidence, eye witness testimony isnt evidence, its barely allowable in court, though it can be used to corroboate other actual evidence, it poves nothing on its own, People are prone to making a lot of mistakes or tend to make their ideas fit what actually happened. Bible quotes dont mean anything
    You might aswell be quoting Hansel and Grettle
    Here is one of my favourite eyewitness testimony experiments:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_m_9N_3u7o

    MrP


  • #2030
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Zombrex wrote: »
    Lol :rolleyes:

    Of course not, you are a hypocrite (actually a faux-Christian troll, but you know, both sides of the same coin). You purchase medicine based on evolutionary biology because the medicine works. You then turn around and denounce the scientists who work in evolutionary biology.

    Slow clap
    Medicine has nothing to do with whether we are descended from Pondslime.
    I have never purchased any medicine from an Evolutionary Biologist ... and I never will ... because they don't manufacture medicines ... nor do they deliver medical services!!!:(
    You're the hypocrite ... trying to claim something which is patently untrue!!


    The following is what an eminent world-class medical expert thinks about the relevance of evolution to medical practice:-
    I give you Prof. Michael Egnor, a neurosurgeon and intelligent design supporter, who has been a professor in the Department of Pediatrics at Stony Brook University since 1991. He completed medical school at Columbia University and has published twenty-nine scientific papers.

    "Doctors don't study evolution. Doctors never study it in medical school, and they never use evolutionary biology in their practice. There are no courses in medical school on evolution. There are no 'professors of evolution' in medical schools. There are no departments of evolutionary biology in medical schools.

    If you needed treatment for a brain tumor, your medical team would include a physicist (who designed the MRI that diagnosed your tumor), a chemist and a pharmacologist (who made the medicine to treat you), an engineer and an anesthesiologist (who designed and used the machine that give you anesthesia), a neurosurgeon (who did the surgery to remove your tumor), a pathologist (who studied the tumor under a microscope and determined what type of tumor it was), and nurses and oncologists (who help you recover and help make sure the tumor doesn't come back). There would be no evolutionary biologists on your team.

    I am a professor of neurosurgery, I work and teach at a medical school, I do brain research, and in 20 years I've performed over 4000 brain operations. I never use evolutionary biology in my work. Would I be a better surgeon if I assumed that the brain arose by random events? Of course not. Doctors are detectives. We look for patterns, and in the human body, patterns look very much like they were designed. Doctors know that, from the intricate structure of the human brain to the genetic code, our bodies show astonishing evidence of design. That's why most doctors--nearly two-thirds according to national polls--don't believe that human beings arose merely by chance and natural selection. Most doctors don't accept evolutionary biology as an adequate explanation for life. Doctors see, first-hand, the design of life."


  • #2031
    Masteroid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 352 ✭✭Masteroid


    J C wrote: »
    Our personality is out spirit ... and it exists.

    ... the many 'near-death' experiences recalled to emegency room staff by patients who died ... but were resuscitated ... provides tantalising evidence of life beyond the grave

    So cats and dogs can't have NDE's then?

    I was sure my dog had one.


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  • #2032
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    J C wrote: »
    Medicine has nothing to do with whether we are descended from Pondslime.
    I have never purchased any medicine from an Evolutionary Biologist ... and I never will ... because they don't manufacture medicines ... nor do they deliver medical services!!!:(
    You're the hypocrite ... trying to claim something which is patently untrue!!

    Lmao, say the person trying to tell us the fairytale bible is the truthful word of the great bearded one. Thanks for the continued laughs


  • #2033
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Here is one of my favourite eyewitness testimony experiments:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_m_9N_3u7o

    MrP
    Optical illusions and psychological trickery apart ... eyewitness testimony is acceptable evidence in court ... and Our Lord's words seem to apply to you:
    Lk 16:30 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”


  • #2034
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Masteroid wrote: »
    So cats and dogs can't have NDE's then?

    I was sure my dog had one.
    Did your dog tell you that he had an NDE?
    ... or were you just talking to yourself at the time.:):D


  • #2035
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Sin City wrote: »
    You did not prove using evidence, eye witness testimony isnt evidence, its barely allowable in court, though it can be used to corroboate other actual evidence, it poves nothing on its own, People are prone to making a lot of mistakes or tend to make their ideas fit what actually happened. Bible quotes dont mean anything
    You might aswell be quoting Hansel and Grettle
    Eyewitness testimony from two witnesses can provide (and has provided) sufficient evidence to hang a man!!!
    ... so it is much more than 'barely allowable' in court.

    You're quite entitled to reject anything you choose to reject ... but don't blame anybody, but yourself, if you end up with an eternity to mull-over your mistake ... as a result.

    ... and BTW not believing in something ... doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.


  • #2036
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Idiotic is the perfect description of a YEC's views.
    I could return the 'compliment' to Evolutionists ... but I would be equally wrong ... and just descending to your low level of debating, if I did!!!
    MrPudding wrote: »
    No JC, as has been pointed out, the doctor is simply giving the patient a choice because the doctor is being professional a d understands that a persons beliefs, however idiotic and stupid, may influence the treatment they will accept. The doctor never said he would not give the patient the "good" medicine, he merely asked which one the patient would prefer. No question of withholding effective treatment here.
    The doctor in the cartoon is behaving genocidally against a population of people that he doesn't religiously identify with.
    Creationists accept that antibiotic resistance develops and they also have no personal objection to availing of the best medical treatment ... so why would a doctor even think of offering an ineffective medical treatment to a Creationist?
    MrPudding wrote: »
    Again, the example one of a person not suitable for a particular job.
    ... paedophiles are much more than unsuitable for a job in child rearing. Using such 'loaded' descriptors about an entire faith group amounts to religiously motivated hatred.:(

    wrote:
    Originally Posted by J C View Post
    Irony is something I see every day in my interactions with committed Evolutionists!!

    Mr P
    Yes, I can imagine. Every time they treat you like a proper scientist you irony would be almost unbearable.
    I did say that my interactions were with Evolutionists ... and I didn't say they were scientists ... in fact most of them are not scientists ... but your apparent assumption that all Evolutionists are scientists ... and no Creationists are scientists ... perfectly illustrates your unfounded bias in action.
    MrPudding wrote: »
    It is a little more complicated than this. Whilst I would prefer my doctor to not be religious, I am not really too bothered. The YEC bit goes beyond religion to me. I tolerate people's religious beliefs. I think it is very sad that we, as a species have them, but I understand that some people take comfort from them and could not live their life without them. However much I would prefer it not to be that way, I don't think it will change any time soon. So religious beliefs I can handle. YEC on the other hand goes beyond a religious belief for me. It is so stupid that ridicule and derision really is all it is really due. I find it most unfortunate that that an outlook so obviously stupid and detached form reality qualifies for legal protection, but that is the world we live in. I would prefer that the laws errs on the side of caution and protects something totally unworthy of protection, like YEC, than it goes the other way and something that should be protected, unlike YEC, ends up not being protected.

    That said, whilst YEC does attract protection under discrimination laws, the discrimination laws, in the UK at least, allow for discrimination in certain circumstances. Allowances are made for fitness for a job. I think it is not unreasonable to suggest that a YEC would not be suitable for certain positions, for example, anything to do with real science, sharp implements or something that require two things to be done at the same time, like walking and talking or some such.

    If I get a chance I will do a bot of research to see if there have been any employment tribunal cases involving YEC. If there is I expect I will not be happy with the results, but I will have a look anyway.
    You are a nuanced bigot ... but a bigot none-the-less.
    I wouldn't be at all confident that the anti-discrimination laws would protect Christians in view of the fact that they were introduced to eliminate Christianity from the public sphere ... and to protect every other belief.
    I have heard of decisions against Christians on this very basis ... that the laws are there to protect 'minorities' ... and not members of the 'majority' faith!!!

    ... so I guess Creationism ... now ... and in the future, Christianity itself, will be a love that dare not speak it's name.
    MrPudding wrote: »
    Only if you go on a course on the use of ellipses. But seriously, no. I don't have to tolerate abject stupidity in my life. I have no need to hire people and I am lucky enough not to move in circles where there is a high proportion of YEC. Admittedly, there is an element of "don't ask, don't tell" but I am happy with that. I am quite happy for the religious to keep their opinions to themselves, and I will do the same.
    ... so in summary, its OK to be a Christian, as long as they don't do it in the streets ... and frighten the horses.
    ... and Creationists should be discriminated against with impunity and allowed to die through medical neglect.
    ... at least we know where we stand ... with the pseudo-liberals ... who are out to destroy us !!!


  • #2037
    pauldla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    ^^^

    What started out as a discussion about a cartoon has now lead to talk of genocide against Creationists? Oh dear...


  • #2038
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    pauldla wrote: »
    ^^^

    What started out as a discussion about a cartoon has now lead to talk of genocide against Creationists? Oh dear...
    It's indeed as serious as that ... and the kind of attitudes displayed towards Creationists in many recent postings ... wouldn't indicate that much would be done to stop such genocide ... if it were to start.


  • #2039
    pauldla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    J C wrote: »
    It's indeed as serious as that ... and the kind of attitudes displayed towards Creationists in many recent postings ... wouldn't indicate that much would be done to stop such genocide ... if it were to start.

    Genocide? This is gone past insanity. I despair.


  • #2040
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    pauldla wrote: »
    Genocide? This is gone past insanity. I despair.
    Medical neglect directed against an entire religious minority is indeed genocidal.

    ... so do you withdraw the idea that Creationists should receive 'Noahs Ark' style ineffective medical treatment?
    ... and do you accept that it is no joking matter?


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  • #2041
    Masteroid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 352 ✭✭Masteroid


    J C wrote: »
    Did your dog tell you that he had an NDE?
    ... or were you just talking to yourself at the time.:):D

    followed by:
    J C wrote: »
    ... and BTW not believing in something ... doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

    So just because you don't believe my dog had an NDE doesn't mean it didn't happen.:cool:


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