McClean refuses to wear poppy

NIMAN · 11-11-2012 11:50PM

As a fellow Derryman, I fully understand why James decided to take this decision.

It was a big call on his part, as there is always the possibility it could affect his young career.

But I think it won't.

Poppy fascism is getting a little annoying at this stage.

I love the photo caption from that Daily Mail link:
"The entire Everton team and McLean's Sunderland team-mates wore poppies and observed the minute's silence before the game"

Makes it sound like McClean was singing and dancing during the minutes silence.

applehunter · 12-11-2012 12:38AM

Fair play to James McClean.

"Not easy to stand alone against the ridicule of others"

Understandable stance considering where he comes from.

The_Kew_Tour · 12-11-2012 01:07AM

MANUTD99 wrote: »

Pat Fenlon and a few of the Hibs players are not wearing one at the minute

Seems like few other people at the game had other things to worry about like your man eating pie here:D

BhoscaCapall · 12-11-2012 03:56AM

It's quite ironic that of all the people I know who choose not to wear a poppy (English, Scottish and Irish), these are probably the people most likely to actually oppose fascism (members of Antifa/AFA/Alerta and other far-left groups), whereas a large portion of the noisy poppy brigade are probably closer to those nasty folk their heroes gave their lives to fight against.

grenache · 12-11-2012 04:04AM

http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread.php?t=741616

Oh the irony of bullying people into wearing a symbol, that is worn to honour the memory of those who fought for personal freedoms.

I admire the idea of the poppy appeal, but this 'poppy fascism' and berating those who don't wear one has to cease.

Zebra3 · 12-11-2012 02:59PM

Just as an aside, Cliftonville were playing at home to Linfield on Saturday and BBC NI reported the minute's silence before the game for dead British soldiers was "not perfectly observed".

I wonder which genius done up the fixture list. :pac:

Coillte_Bhoy · 12-11-2012 03:05PM

They sang Aiden McAnespie during the minute

Zebra3 wrote: »

Just as an aside, Cliftonville were playing at home to Linfield on Saturday and BBC NI reported the minute's silence before the game for dead British soldiers was "not perfectly observed".

I wonder which genius done up the fixture list. :pac:

They sang Aiden McAnespie during the minute

Coillte_Bhoy · 12-11-2012 03:09PM

markesmith wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2231071/James-McClean-refuses-wear-poppy.html#ixzz2BvKRDEGk

Let's keep voting on this article - in protest against this poppy fascism!

what vote?

fionnsda · 12-11-2012 03:44PM

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

what vote?

TODAY'S POLL

Should James McClean have worn a poppy shirt?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2231071/James-McClean-refuses-wear-poppy.html#ixzz2BvKRDEGk

http://www.irishexaminer.com/

12-11-2012 04:09PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

Just as an aside, Cliftonville were playing at home to Linfield on Saturday and BBC NI reported the minute's silence before the game for dead British soldiers was "not perfectly observed".

I wonder which genius done up the fixture list. :pac:

Or what genius thought to actually have a minute silence

BhoscaCapall · 12-11-2012 04:34PM

As for the Cliftonville thing - marring a minute's silence for it is where I draw the line. I do not like the poppy stuff, I've gone as far as severing ties with people who loudly go on about wearing one, but I won't ruin a minute's silence. The poppy campaign is nothing more than fundraising for the British army IMO and that's why I have nothing but disdain for it, but a minute's silence is just paying your respects. Even if I don't want to use the minute to pay my respects I will still keep quiet and let others do so.

A match against Linfield is probably a different kettle of fish, and it was probably done to noise up their fans as much as anything. Honestly I believe for clubs like Linfield and Rangers Remembrance Sunday isn't merely about remembering the war dead but another excuse to laud their 'Empire' and rub it in people's faces. The way they carry on in comparison to any English club says it all. Of course you could say the same about how some republicans approach Easter Sunday.

I think the Celtic game yesterday was a perfect example of how I think it should be approached. No poppy on the kit but a minute's silence observed impeccably, then belting out Aidan McAnespie.

Zebra3 · 12-11-2012 04:59PM

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

The poppy campaign is nothing more than fundraising for the British army IMO

But it has turned into something more than that.

It has become an attempt to legitimise Britain's role in the illegal invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan and to deflect the killers involved from any criticism.

Fr Tod Umptious · 12-11-2012 05:42PM

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

As for the Cliftonville thing - marring a minute's silence for it is where I draw the line. I do not like the poppy stuff, I've gone as far as severing ties with people who loudly go on about wearing one, but I won't ruin a minute's silence. The poppy campaign is nothing more than fundraising for the British army IMO and that's why I have nothing but disdain for it, but a minute's silence is just paying your respects. Even if I don't want to use the minute to pay my respects I will still keep quiet and let others do so.

A match against Linfield is probably a different kettle of fish, and it was probably done to noise up their fans as much as anything. Honestly I believe for clubs like Linfield and Rangers Remembrance Sunday isn't merely about remembering the war dead but another excuse to laud their 'Empire' and rub it in people's faces. The way they carry on in comparison to any English club says it all. Of course you could say the same about how some republicans approach Easter Sunday.

I think the Celtic game yesterday was a perfect example of how I think it should be approached. No poppy on the kit but a minute's silence observed impeccably, then belting out Aidan McAnespie.

It is not fund-raising for veterans of the British Army, rather than the Army itself ?

I have no problem if people support a charity like that, and I have no people if the likes of McClean or others do not wish to.

BhoscaCapall · 12-11-2012 05:46PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

It is not fund-raising for veterans of the British Army, rather than the Army itself ?

I don't think these people are absolved of their crimes just because they've finished their tour or been discharged.

Then there is the less tangible aim of the campaign, alluded to in the post after mine. The propaganda angle. Nobody gave much of a toss about this poppy stuff 5 or 6 years ago, it's only after the British media and government began a concerted effort to drum up support for their atrocities at a time when morale and support was at its lowest ever that it's reared its head. The timing of the Royal Wedding was no coincidence either.

Fr Tod Umptious · 12-11-2012 05:54PM

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

I don't think these people are absolved of their crimes just because they've finished their tour or been discharged.

Then there is the less tangible aim of the campaign, alluded to in the post after mine. The propaganda angle. Nobody gave much of a toss about this poppy stuff 5 or 6 years ago, it's only after the British media and government began a concerted effort to drum up support for their atrocities at a time when morale and support was at its lowest ever that it's reared its head. The timing of the Royal Wedding was no coincidence either.

I do not agree with your accretion that the British Army are responsible for atrocities

i would much prefer to see a western force like the British army blowing the s**t out of Afgans or Iragis that the latter attacking us in the west.

Call me weird but i am quiet happy with the western society I live in, and I thank the British Army for helping protect that.

BhoscaCapall · 12-11-2012 05:59PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

i would much prefer to see a western force like the British army blowing the s**t out of Afgans or Iragis that the latter attacking us in the west

And there goes what little chance there was of anybody taking you seriously.

Coillte_Bhoy · 12-11-2012 06:09PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I do not agree with your accretion that the British Army are responsible for atrocities

i would much prefer to see a western force like the British army blowing the s**t out of Afgans or Iragis that the latter attacking us in the west.

Call me weird but i am quiet happy with the western society I live in, and I thank the British Army for helping protect that.

Wow, you're showing your true colours. So the british army arent responsible for atrocities yet you support them blowing the s**t out of Afgans or Iragis. Sorry but when did afghans or irqis attacke the west.

Sorry i realise im going off topic but a disgraceful post like that cant go unchallenged

Coillte_Bhoy · 12-11-2012 06:12PM

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

I think the Celtic game yesterday was a perfect example of how I think it should be approached. No poppy on the kit but a minute's silence observed impeccably, then belting out Aidan McAnespie.

Exactly and i know of celtic fans who not agreeing with the minute's silence simply stayed out on the concourse rather than disrupt it. There must have been a few 'journalists' in Scotland who were rightly pissed off though.

Fr Tod Umptious · 12-11-2012 06:22PM

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Wow, you're showing your true colours. So the british army arent responsible for atrocities yet you support them blowing the s**t out of Afgans or Iragis. Sorry but when did afghans or irqis attacke the west.

Sorry i realise im going off topic but a disgraceful post like that cant go unchallenged

I know it's off topic and I know we will have to get into the minutia of who is who in all this and no doubt there will be a sparkling of Whataboutery etc but here goes

I would much prefer to see regimes favourable to the west in places like Afghanistan and Iraq, rather than ones that are hostile to the west.

Now if that involves the British Army or any other western force killing Afghans and Iraqi's in a effort to achieve this then I am fine with that.

No I in no way condemn the killing of innocent civilians, but at the same time I am quiet happy to see combatants killed.

If you wish to call the killing of combatants as atrocities then that's fine, but I certainly do not.

12-11-2012 06:23PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I do not agree with your accretion that the British Army are responsible for atrocities

i would much prefer to see a western force like the British army blowing the s**t out of Afgans or Iragis that the latter attacking us in the west.

Call me weird but i am quiet happy with the western society I live in, and I thank the British Army for helping protect that.

Yeah, 250,000 civilians killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Thanks indeed to the British army for their part in that. Heroes.

BhoscaCapall · 12-11-2012 06:24PM

Clearly nobody here appreciates just how close Ireland was to being taken over by Al-Queda. I hear they were planning on storing nuclear warheads in the Roscommon bogs :rolleyes:

Zebra3 · 12-11-2012 06:38PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I would much prefer to see regimes favourable to the west in places like Afghanistan and Iraq, rather than ones that are hostile to the west.

I'd love your opinion on Saudi Arabia which manages to fit in to both your categories.

Coillte_Bhoy · 12-11-2012 06:42PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I know it's off topic and I know we will have to get into the minutia of who is who in all this and no doubt there will be a sparkling of Whataboutery etc but here goes

I would much prefer to see regimes favourable to the west in places like Afghanistan and Iraq, rather than ones that are hostile to the west.

Now if that involves the British Army or any other western force killing Afghans and Iraqi's in a effort to achieve this then I am fine with that.

No I in no way condemn the killing of innocent civilians, but at the same time I am quiet happy to see combatants killed.

If you wish to call the killing of combatants as atrocities then that's fine, but I certainly do not.

Dont dare put words in my mouth. You never mentioned combatants in your earlier post. And wtf has Iraq or Afganistan got to do with this issue anyway? I thougt the whole poppy thing was purely about remembering dead service men and not about the present wars? Tut tu , silly me:rolleyes:

mikeym · 12-11-2012 06:55PM

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I am starting to think that James McClean suffers some kind of mental retardation. Just wear the damn thing and keep your mouth shut.

Obviously your not the best at history. Heres some info courtesy of wikipedia.

Bloody Sunday —sometimes called the Bogside Massacre—was an incident on 30 January 1972 in the Bogside area of Derry, Northern Ireland, in which 26 unarmed civil-rights protesters and bystanders were shot by soldiers of the British Army. Thirteen males, seven of whom were teenagers, died immediately or soon after, while the death of another man four-and-a-half months later was attributed to the injuries he received on that day. Two protesters were also injured when they were run down by army vehicles. Five of those wounded were shot in the back. The incident occurred during a Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association march; the soldiers involved were members of the First Battalion of the Parachute Regiment.

polarbearhead · 12-11-2012 07:00PM

Did Martin O'Neill wear one?

BhoscaCapall · 12-11-2012 07:07PM

He didn't during the match, but put one on for the press conference after. MON is pretty much diplomacy personified though.

I might be mistaken but he has in the past lectured Nationalists telling them to give their backing to the PSNI, so although I absolutely adore the man as a football manager I have little respect for his political opinion.

doc_17 · 12-11-2012 08:14PM

Choice. Isn't that the supposed greatness of The West?

I remember plenty of times being stopped by the British Army going through the North.

They stopped my dad one time and asked where he was going. "Derry" was the reply. "Excuse me? Where?" Derry again was the response. "I'm sorry I don't know where that is. One final time, where are you going?"

Dad said "Coleraine"

Not a hope he was calling it the other name!

But bad things happened in McLean's hometown and he has every right to make the choice he did. As does O'Neil

Coillte_Bhoy · 12-11-2012 09:41PM

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

He didn't during the match, but put one on for the press conference after. MON is pretty much diplomacy personified though.

I might be mistaken but he has in the past lectured Nationalists telling them to give their backing to the PSNI, so although I absolutely adore the man as a football manager I have little respect for his political opinion.

Link?

NIMAN · 12-11-2012 09:54PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

It is not fund-raising for veterans of the British Army, rather than the Army itself ?

I have no problem if people support a charity like that, and I have no people if the likes of McClean or others do not wish to.

But they are not a charity per se.

They are veterans of the British Army, and as such the Government should be looking after their veterans, not relying on the public to donate money to them.

Lets be honest here, as much as the Government ministers and politicians love a good old "our heroes" tagline, once these guys come back from the front, either dead or alive with severe injuries, the Govs couldn't care less about them, or they wouldn't be treated so badly by the State. Its just become so PC correct these days in the UK to support "our heroes".

bobbysands81 · 13-11-2012 12:07AM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I do not agree with your accretion that the British Army are responsible for atrocities

i would much prefer to see a western force like the British army blowing the s**t out of Afgans or Iragis that the latter attacking us in the west.

Call me weird but i am quiet happy with the western society I live in, and I thank the British Army for helping protect that.

Wow, just wow...

McClean refuses to wear poppy

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