Halo 4: Campaign & Spartan Ops Story Discussion Thread Contains Spoilers

Calhoun · 08-11-2012 03:09AM #1

Hi Guys,

As we have the other thread for first impressions, i am opening this one to discuss the story see what people thought. Personally i thought it was a great start to a trilogy and leaves allot of questions on what comes next. What we found out so far from what i can tell;

1. Return of the forerunners well one in particular in this game the dictact but dialogue suggests he is trying to bring back his race or something of the sort. They will feature heavily in the coming games
2. Prometheans are ancient humans that have been digitalised or turned to ash or whatever as punishment for plasma burning the life out of forerunner planets but we find out later that the humans were actually trying to prevent the flood from spreading. Also interesting story arc as it shows the different perspectives in a war, the views of the librarian compared to the dictat
3. The chief is starting to personally develop, with the death of cortana which in many ways acted as chiefs human side, the genetic change the librarian made and the dictact controlling his body who knows what will happen. Two scenes stood out for me in this regard, when lasky was standing with the chief observing earth the point made about soldiers being people stood out and then the clip after the trailer was weird, it was like the chief has been taken over by the dictact. Which from reading the wikia apparently is possible.

What did you guys think ?

spank_inferno · 08-11-2012 12:19PM

The cinematics were interesting and very well rendered.

Regarding the Didact (who was pretty cool).

I'm unsure that the Forerunners can make a comeback, they after all are extinct.
I think it would be a bit of a cop-out if they were in some form of stasis all these eons.

Regarding the epilogue,

without Cortana, chief seems very much alone.
You would think the saviour of the human race would be held in greater esteem. It felt like the rest of humanity had already moved on pretty quickly.
The Spartan IVs unsure what to make of him.
Perhaps they see him now as a relic of the war.

One thing I didnt understand though:

Prologue: The interaction between Halsley and her interrogator was very good, however I'm unsure how it fit in with the plot?
Perhaps it points to the future events, where a now alone Chief feels further detatched from humanity?

Calhoun · 08-11-2012 12:48PM

spank_inferno wrote: »

Regarding the Didact (who was pretty cool).
I'm unsure that the Forerunners can make a comeback, they after all are extinct.
I think it would be a bit of a cop-out if they were in some form of stasis all these eons.

Who knows all i am saying is
a race that has the ability to turn humans into prothean's, genetically enhance a super soldier on the fly, put plans in place for the super soldiers to be created in the first place ( librarians speech) and is known to be able to transfer their being into another individual could have other plans for eventual return. Then again maybe not .

Regarding the epilogue,
without Cortana, chief seems very much alone.
You would think the saviour of the human race would be held in greater esteem. It felt like the rest of humanity had already moved on pretty quickly.
The Spartan IVs unsure what to make of him.
Perhaps they see him now as a relic of the war.

I totally agree i personally wanted
to snap Del Rio's little chicken neck but i am not sure if he was completely dismissed by humanity. I think Del Rio was too big for his boots and maybe thought that he didn't need someone like the chief anymore but when it was found out that he left the chief behind he was removed from his position.

I think the spartan's were in awe, the mark IV's were adults when they were made spartan's they weren't indoctrinated children so these guys would have seem him as the best of the best and perhaps hero worshipped him which would have meant he was on his own also.

One thing I didnt understand though:
Prologue: The interaction between Halsley and her interrogator was very good, however I'm unsure how it fit in with the plot?
Perhaps it points to the future events, where a now alone Chief feels further detatched from humanity?

I think the prologue
could be a view of future events or it could have been a discussion before the spartan IV's were made. What it did do however which was central to the plot was provide background into what made the chief, i.e what laws of morality were broken in ways the chief and Cortana were both used as a means to the end by Halsey and it could hint at the chief questioning his very existence or what he is fighting for. This scene tied in well with the ending conversation with Lasky.

What i do potentially see happening though is Lasky will step in to be chiefs link to humanity, like why would the build him up like they did in forward unto dawn ect when he had a relatively minor encounter with chief in the game (main dynamic was chief/cortanta)

Stormhawk88 · 12-11-2012 12:07AM

Hey guys just throwing in my 2 cents.

I think that cortana isn't dead even though from what it looks like remember that the librarian talked to her too and that she was part of the plan i know it might be a long shot but it could be part of the evoloution of the 2 also cortannas rampancy was being thrown into the diadact to stop him i just dont think they could have anybody else with the chief

Halo is epic!:D

Korvanica · 12-11-2012 12:14AM

Great story, basically everything I would have said has been said already.

Except: (Slightly Off topic):

He takes his suit off at the end. He has been wearing that for well over 4 years. Thing must stink ! :pac:

Calhoun · 12-11-2012 12:33AM

Korvanica wrote: »

Great story, basically everything I would have said has been said already.

Except: (Slightly Off topic):
He takes his suit off at the end. He has been wearing that for well over 4 years. Thing must stink ! :pac:

This is one of the biggest mysteries to me in all of the games, have recently spent time chatting with a mate about it

Calhoun · 12-11-2012 12:51AM

Stormhawk88 wrote: »

Hey guys just throwing in my 2 cents.
I think that cortana isn't dead even though from what it looks like remember that the librarian talked to her too and that she was part of the plan i know it might be a long shot but it could be part of the evoloution of the 2 also cortannas rampancy was being thrown into the diadact to stop him i just dont think they could have anybody else with the chief

Halo is epic!:D

I think you maybe right in some ways

i don't believe she is 100% dead but as i have seen pointed out in halo death isnt always permanent. The question however is what part will she play in the future, allie or something different? The big thing with cortana is she has been chiefs humanity and he has effectively as far as he knows lost her, hes now at a stage where he is questioning his own humanity be interesting to see what part she will play.

12-11-2012 10:03AM

OK, just finished last night, can finally talk about the story. I'm not gonna use spoiler tags, because this is a well labelled spoiler thread, so just in case, **SPOILERS AHEAD***

I thought the storyline felt a little trumped up in parts, i thought it felt like the writers/developers HAD to come up with a new enemy for the new trilogy to keep it interesting, so they reached back into the mythology and used the forerunners, or one in particular, but i don't think it ties in with the story we've had so far. The forerunners were, extinct. Not sleeping or imprisoned, extinct. Now suddenly they're not? I liked the didact as a villain, and i liked the promethean knights as enemies to battle against, but i just didn't think that the backstory was that believable.

The interaction between the chief and cortana was very well done, and i think the cutscenes, and in particular the ones towards the end of the game were exceptionally well done and really helped the story. The last couple were excellent, and the after credits one in particular was nothing short of amazing for a console that's getting on a bit now. I think we'll see a more emotionally diverse chief in the next game. It's clear they're setting us up for a bit of a personal crisis, what with the loss of cortana, and the chief/laskey's exchange questioning whether he's man or machine, and where the separation lies, but really, he's the last of his kind, without any human attachment. He's a genetically enhanced soldier bred from childhood for battle, who's put his life on the line to save humanity from extinction several times now. This story is only going to end one way ultimately. If we see the chief meeting a nice girl and settling down and having lots of mini-chiefs, we'll feel very cheated...

One thing that's been bugging me since early on in the story that i was expecting to have addressed, but that wasn't, is the role of the covenant.

When last we heard, there was a truce, an armistice between humanity and the covenant, at the end of halo 3 when the chief was M.I.A. and the arbiter is attending the rememberance service. The covenant have realised that the prophets were liars, and the elites were fighting on the same side as the humans. The original trilogy was all wrapped up nicely, everybody was nice and friendly. Now all of a sudden, the covenant are back in full scale war with humanity, despatching fleets of starships to fight against us, and unless i missed it there was no explanation of why. The unification of the prometheans and the covenant under the didact was touched on briefly with a throwaway "i can't believe how quickly he's united them" line, but there was no mention of what the elites were doing there in the first place.

It's something that could have been explained away fairly easily with a cutscene midway through the game with any of the crew of infinity filling in the gaps regarding what happened in the 4 years between H3 and H4, how hostilities resumed, but unless i missed it, nothing was mentioned. The 2 sides are just at war again. What gives?

Calhoun · 12-11-2012 01:43PM

So i am going to disagree with you slightly i think the prometheans and the didact were believable enemies and really fit into the eons led planning from the precursors and their plan for the mantle of responsibility.

The above paragraph is what they did wrong, i had to research to find out allot of what was going on and a common belief in other forums and online discussions is that the game assumed that the player knew allot of the backstory and history. Which goes against 343's view that people who hadn't played the other games or read the books would be able to understand the story line.

I believe as had been said in other places that they needed a 2nd act to explain things like 1. the didact, 2. promeatheans/convenant,3. the human/forerunning ancient war, 4. the devolving of humans, 5. What the issue was between the likes of del rio and the chief, and 6. the relationship between Spartan IV's and the chief could have been broadened out some more.

I also think the whole cortana, chief, laskey thing is a big one but what i think you are missing because of how they told the story is that the chief is or could be genetically matched to the ancient humans and maybe he is not the last of his kind but the first of a human species that is not devolved and broken down but the complete article.

Fundmentally though what it comes down to is they consolidated into the game allot of content that exists in books and assumed people would know and they should have explained better.

If your interested;

Halo Forerunner books by Greg Bear - Explains the Didact motivations ect and how there was and possibly is 2 didacts. In fact the Didact in the game is believed to be the Bornstellar Didact so not the original
Halo: Ghost of Onyx, Glassland, & Thursdays war - bridges the gap between halo 3 and 4 and explains why the covenant are at requiem. There is a followup book due soon;

12-11-2012 02:33PM

Calhoun wrote: »

....what it comes down to is they consolidated into the game allot of content that exists in books and assumed people would know and they should have explained better...

Yeah, i agree with you there. That's the key point. With no disrespect at all intended to the people who love the halo books and vids and everything in the canon, the games are the core product here, and they should stand on their own and make complete sense as individual pieces of work, not come to the party demanding that players should have educated themselves elsewhere first to be fully clear on what's going on. That's what writing, cutscenes, script, dialogue, flashbacks, and even recaps are for. It's not enough to fall back on the lore outside of the games, especially when you're taking an established series on such a bold new course in terms of plot, and say "people should have done their homework".

The fact is, the vast majority of people who buy and play the halo games have no connection to the halo universe outside of that. They don't get involved enough to follow the canon outside of what's on the discs. That's easy enough for Microshaft & 343 to figure out just by comparing total sales numbers for the video games to total sales numbers of the books.

I think it's a cop out by any developer not to explain fully what's happening in a game, but especially one who knows that no matter what, they are going to sell bucketloads of copies of it to a largely mainstream gaming audience.

Calhoun · 12-11-2012 03:01PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The fact is, the vast majority of people who buy and play the halo games have no connection to the halo universe outside of that. They don't get involved enough to follow the canon outside of what's on the discs. That's easy enough for Microshaft & 343 to figure out just by comparing total sales numbers for the video games to total sales numbers of the books.

I think it's a cop out by any developer not to explain fully what's happening in a game, but especially one who knows that no matter what, they are going to sell bucketloads of copies of it to a largely mainstream gaming audience.

Well to be honest these people are part of the problem, if story telling was such a big deal rather than how good a FPS is then Microsoft would tailor the game that way.

Unfortunately the fact of the matter is your FPS player cares a tiny amount for the story, look at the likes of COD or BF series where some people havent even played the single player. Microsoft/343 know this so they tailor the game to the majority who really dont care for story but more lets blow **** up. For people who are interested well the game will give you some of the story but the rest is up to you to go find.

This is how its currently being viewed and not from the perspective of "lets put in less because they will go look for it".

12-11-2012 03:33PM

Calhoun wrote: »

Well to be honest these people are part of the problem, if story telling was such a big deal rather than how good a FPS is then Microsoft would tailor the game that way...

I love following the story. Narrative is a big part of an FPS for me, that's what i like about halo, because it's always been strong in that area, but i don't go beyond the games to get what i need. I think it should be on the disc if they expect us to know it.

Shame what you say about people playing the MP and never finishing the single player of shooters though, they're missing out on so much.

Calhoun · 12-11-2012 03:46PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I love following the story. Narrative is a big part of an FPS for me, that's what i like about halo, because it's always been strong in that area, but i don't go beyond the games to get what i need. I think it should be on the disc if they expect us to know it.

Shame what you say about people playing the MP and never finishing the single player of shooters though, they're missing out on so much.

Yup its unfortunate but thats why Halo falls into the shooter genre and not RPG. Maybe in ways though 343 changed the dynamic and added more in this time without the right explanation but you cannot deny that they are keeping through to the majority that play the game.

I would love for them to have a bridging content in the game rather than all the external sources. Who knows though as they launch halo 5-7 on the 720 the story maybe fleshed out enough by then that it wont matter.

spank_inferno · 13-11-2012 03:02PM

Deleted User wrote: »

One thing that's been bugging me since early on in the story that i was expecting to have addressed, but that wasn't, is the role of the covenant.

When last we heard, there was a truce, an armistice between humanity and the covenant, at the end of halo 3 when the chief was M.I.A. and the arbiter is attending the rememberance service.

Just to refer back to this one.

The elites are engaged in a civil war.
Those that follow the arbiter and seek peace with Humanity
vs Those who wish to crush Humanity and worship for forerunner as gods as they had always done.

I'm not sure if the game refered to this? I hope it did, again as someone mentioned, if you are not familiar with the canon much of the game goes over your head.

(related to the above... before reaching Requiem, the UNSC Infinity stopped off at the Elites homeworld to assist the Arbiter's forces and 'test' the Infinity's combat ability).

maximoose · 13-11-2012 03:09PM

Korvanica wrote: »

Except: (Slightly Off topic):
He takes his suit off at the end. He has been wearing that for well over 4 years. Thing must stink ! :pac:

I'd avoided the vast majority of reviews and spoilers on the game so

when the suit was being taken off I was expecting a big cut to black as it got to the helmet, the shot of his eyes really took me by surprise, loved it!

13-11-2012 03:38PM

maximoose wrote: »

I'd avoided the vast majority of reviews and spoilers on the game so
when the suit was being taken off I was expecting a big cut to black as it got to the helmet, the shot of his eyes really took me by surprise, loved it!

Ah crap, i finished it on heroic, then completely forgot to take a look at the legendary ending. Just had a look at it there and it's brilliant. I'm not sure whether or not i liked it better

not having any idea what he looks like

, but it reminds me of

the reveal in Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back where you see a tiny glimpse of Vader without his helmet on

, just for a second.

Great bit of game history.

spank_inferno wrote: »

Just to refer back to this one.

The elites are engaged in a civil war.
Those that follow the arbiter and seek peace with Humanity
vs Those who wish to crush Humanity and worship for forerunner as gods as they had always done.

I'm not sure if the game refered to this?

It wasn't. Thanks for clearing it up. It's been so long since Halo 3 I'd forgotten that. So there isn't really a full truce going on, just one with one of the elite factions.

Much appreciated. It could have been made clearer in the game, most definitely, but it makes sense now.

spank_inferno · 13-11-2012 04:02PM

No worries....

I think the faction of Elites still hostile to humanity is called the "Storm"??
I'm sure we'll see them as cannon fodder in future games.

The reveal of chief's eyes at the end was cool.
Easy to forget that he's getting old.
(45ish I think).

Calhoun · 13-11-2012 06:04PM

Just on the covenant point i think also that needs to be taken into account is that the splintering hasnt just meant that their are groups allied to the humans and groups against but also that their are independant bodies.

I believe in thursdays war it explains the group visiting requiem are religious treasure hunters and the reason they would engage the chief is due to not wanting to share the treasure.

ceejay · 16-11-2012 02:22PM

So I'm not going to use Spoiler tags either, the whole thread is marked as *Contains Spoilers*

I've read all the books apart from The Thursday War (it's sitting here looking at me reproachfully

) so I wasn't really confused by what's going on. However for those players who don't read the extended universe stuff, there was content included in the game to help fill in the backstory - the terminals. Now, I know they're not that obvious, plus the whole having to go to Halo Waypoint to look at them is a pain in the ass, but these should give enough context to why the Forerunners and the Humans are enemies, who the Prometheans are, why the Didact was punished by the Forerunners, and how he ended up in Requiem. I expect that the third Greg Bear book will probably flesh all this out when it comes out next year. That said, you would need to be reading the Karen Travis books to understand why Halsey is in cuffs, what's the deal with the Spartan IVs, etc.

I thought the story was told fairly well, and for me the core story of the relationship between John and Cortana was scripted and acted really well. I always had the hope that I was going to be able to save Cortana, right up to the end, and the poignancy of some of the scenes really worked well for me. Like John (I suspect), I'm in the denial stage of grief, and I can't accept that she's truly gone. My only hope at this stage is that Cortana has somehow managed to join the Domain, the Forerunner's digital universe mentioned in the Greg Bear books, and that she will be able to connect with John once more in Halo 5 and 6

I'm curious to see where things go with John's accellerated evolution, or whatever the Librarian did to him. Why this made him immune to the Composer I don't understand, and I don't remember anything from the Greg Bear books which would help clarify that.

Now that the Didact has been defeated, I expect that Halo 5 and 6 will return to how to finally truly defeat the Flood - I'm sure they're still out there somewhere. Also the Covenant look to continue to be a threat, so the signature three-way battles will continue no doubt.

ceejay · 16-11-2012 02:24PM

Also quick point on the Covenant fighting for the Didact - he's one of their gods, all their Christmases are coming at once for them to be truly the chosen ones

Though I wonder why he didn't use the Composer on them, and create Elite-variant Promethean Knights?

Calhoun · 16-11-2012 02:46PM

ceejay wrote: »

I've read all the books apart from The Thursday War (it's sitting here looking at me reproachfully ) so I wasn't really confused by what's going on. However for those players who don't read the extended universe stuff, there was content included in the game to help fill in the backstory - the terminals. Now, I know they're not that obvious, plus the whole having to go to Halo Waypoint to look at them is a pain in the ass, but these should give enough context to why the Forerunners and the Humans are enemies, who the Prometheans are, why the Didact was punished by the Forerunners, and how he ended up in Requiem. I expect that the third Greg Bear book will probably flesh all this out when it comes out next year. That said, you would need to be reading the Karen Travis books to understand why Halsey is in cuffs, what's the deal with the Spartan IVs, etc.

Yah but as been called out above and in many other threads across the internet there wasnt enough done to explain the relationships between the chief and the didact, the spartan IV's, lasky & Del Rio. Its like there was an act in the story missing, like act 1 was releasing the didact and getting to the ship and then they just went to act 3.

I'm curious to see where things go with John's accellerated evolution, or whatever the Librarian did to him. Why this made him immune to the Composer I don't understand, and I don't remember anything from the Greg Bear books which would help clarify that.

This is one the things i spent hours googling, we have no idea what happened to him and considering that the didact can transfer his memories and experience to another host this could have happened to the chief.

Now that the Didact has been defeated, I expect that Halo 5 and 6 will return to how to finally truly defeat the Flood - I'm sure they're still out there somewhere. Also the Covenant look to continue to be a threat, so the signature three-way battles will continue no doubt.

Do we know he has been defeated? there is the Ur Didact and the Bornstellar Didact. Who knows either one could return and considering the humans have already defeated the flood will they explore that more?

spank_inferno · 20-11-2012 12:39PM

Has anyone been following the "Spartan Ops" episodes?

Pretty good, though I'm unsure why everyone is so hostile to Dr Halsey.
She is the only one who knows anything and is pretty much the saviour of humanity.

Calhoun · 20-11-2012 07:13PM

spank_inferno wrote: »

Has anyone been following the "Spartan Ops" episodes?

Pretty good, though I'm unsure why everyone is so hostile to Dr Halsey.
She is the only one who knows anything and is pretty much the saviour of humanity.

I havent but will be soon. I can only speculate the hostility has something to do with 1. the creation of the spartan II's and 2. the events around the book the ghost of onyx where it looks like Halsey kidnaps some spartans.

ceejay · 21-11-2012 05:37PM

Calhoun wrote: »

I havent but will be soon. I can only speculate the hostility has something to do with 1. the creation of the spartan II's and 2. the events around the book the ghost of onyx where it looks like Halsey kidnaps some spartans.

She's a war criminal who abducted young children and replaced them with flash clones so the parents wouldn't notice initially (the clones died within 6 months), the kids she abducted were turned into child soldiers, subjected to experimental surgery with horrendous fatality rates and potentially crippling side effects, resulting in semi-human cyborgs who were designed to take out human insurrectionists in the colony worlds.

aaronjumper · 21-11-2012 09:47PM

ceejay wrote: »

She's a war criminal who abducted young children and replaced them with flash clones so the parents wouldn't notice initially (the clones died within 6 months), the kids she abducted were turned into child soldiers, subjected to experimental surgery with horrendous fatality rates and potentially crippling side effects, resulting in semi-human cyborgs who were designed to take out human insurrectionists in the colony worlds.

Sir I applaud your ability to take such a portion of the Halo lore and put it in one easy to read paragraph. Well played indeed.

Anyone think we will ever see The Arbiter again?

Calhoun · 22-11-2012 12:37AM

ceejay wrote: »

She's a war criminal who abducted young children and replaced them with flash clones so the parents wouldn't notice initially (the clones died within 6 months), the kids she abducted were turned into child soldiers, subjected to experimental surgery with horrendous fatality rates and potentially crippling side effects, resulting in semi-human cyborgs who were designed to take out human insurrectionists in the colony worlds.

Ya but how many really know that I heard she also pissed off some old admiral in oni which is why she's in the **** .

ceejay · 22-11-2012 01:39PM

aaronjumper wrote: »

Sir I applaud your ability to take such a portion of the Halo lore and put it in one easy to read paragraph. Well played indeed.

Anyone think we will ever see The Arbiter again?

I'm making my way through The Thursday War at the moment, and right now he's got a Sangheili civil war on his hands. Given that one of the Elites from the other side features in the Halo 4 story (Jul 'Mdama) it's not looking good for ole Arby at the moment

ceejay · 22-11-2012 01:41PM

Calhoun wrote: »

Ya but how many really know that I heard she also pissed off some old admiral in oni which is why she's in the **** .

Yeah, Parangosky (head of ONI) really has it in for Halsey. She's still prepared to use her when necessary though. For both Parangosky and Halsey the ends justify the means I guess

Calhoun · 22-11-2012 01:54PM

ceejay wrote: »

Yeah, Parangosky (head of ONI) really has it in for Halsey. She's still prepared to use her when necessary though. For both Parangosky and Halsey the ends justify the means I guess

Shes like 90 though so i think Halsey might outlast her :P

spank_inferno · 22-11-2012 04:36PM

aaronjumper wrote: »

Anyone think we will ever see The Arbiter again?

I hope so, though I wouldn't bet on it.

It would be nice to get some sort of showing of the "Elites" civil war.
Perhaps there might be some video / cut-scenes in the next game.

aaronjumper · 23-11-2012 07:59AM

ceejay wrote: »

I'm making my way through The Thursday War at the moment, and right now he's got a Sangheili civil war on his hands. Given that one of the Elites from the other side features in the Halo 4 story (Jul 'Mdama) it's not looking good for ole Arby at the moment

spank_inferno wrote: »

I hope so, though I wouldn't bet on it.

It would be nice to get some sort of showing of the "Elites" civil war.
Perhaps there might be some video / cut-scenes in the next game.

Damn. Just when the chief got an ally that could handle the big battles and wasnt killed off in the games. Noooooooo!

Oh well guess he will have to make new friends.

Halo 4: Campaign & Spartan Ops Story Discussion Thread *Contains Spoilers*

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Halo 4: Campaign & Spartan Ops Story Discussion Thread Contains Spoilers