The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 2)

The end of your post k shows that you are willing to think for yourself but the cut and paste job above it is an insult to your own intelligence. Do you actually believe the things that you have pasted or are you just pointing out extreme positions just for a bit of fun.
I don't have the time to go through each one so I'll just mention the one that concerns me the most; the idea that we should hate life. The chapter from John that you quoted refers to Jesus talking about the end of his life. He has entered Jerusalem and knows that because of his words and actions he wont be allowed to live.
Anyway, throughout the history of Christianity there have been cults and writers who have tried to persuade people that life is ugly and hateful and that we should turn away from the world. This is probably the oldest misinterpretation or heresy (an old fashioned word) of the entire point of the Gospels and has to be addressed by each generation. Quite often the loudest people in forums, both medieval and online today, are screaming this heresy at the top of their lungs. They have actually given up on humans and are praying for the end of the world. Not a well thought out choice for them!
All I can do is recommend a few writers who have tried to prune this pessimistic world view. Actually I could mention dozens but I'll only suggest one, the closest, Peter McVerry, who works in Ballymun. His latest book is called 'Jesus - Social Revolutionary?'. It costs less then a tenner and if you have the guts to read it and still think when you finished it that the New Testament is about how we should hate the world then, well, I guess I'll have to leave you to cut and paste away.
Alternatively pick up a book by any of these other writers: James Martin, Gerard W Hughes, William J O'Malley, Timothy Radcliffe, Albert Nolan or Eamon Duffy.

Check who you're quoting before pasting it online. Or not, it's up to you.

I can tell from the end of your post that you are ready to start thinking for yourself rather than accept what extremists want you to think, both Christian and Atheist extremists. The above writers are an antidote to lazy thinking.
Good luck.

Ps, Jesus was accused of being a drunkard as well as everything else, although his first miracle, a favour to his Ma, may not have helped that reputation!

J.C. I think you know what I am talking about when I say that evolution is a fact.

"If you are talking about 'Evolution' as genetic and phenotypic 'drift' driven by natural and sexual selection of pre-existing Complex Functional Specified Genetic Information (CFSGI) ... then it's real allright.
... but if you are talking about the generation of the CFSGI in the first place ... the only plausible source is creation by intelligence(s) unknown."

Do you really think I am impressed by your use of terminology such as "phenotypic drift" in your posts? It would be far more impressive if you tried a bit harder to use phrases which mean something to most people. (more evidence of that arrogance I mentioned before). Delving into topics such as "Random Genetic Drift" is far too complex to be discussing on a forum such as this.
How can you describe as plausible, an "unknown" intelligence creating the world? That is about as implausible as it gets.

I hate to shock you JC, but do you realise the Earth is round, and that it orbits the sun? Evolution is as basic as that. It happened, it continues to happen. Some people still argue that the world is flat. Obviously they are wrong, so are you!
You must think David Attenborough is a complete nutter.

Doc Farrell wrote: »

The end of your post k shows that you are willing to think for yourself but the cut and paste job above it is an insult to your own intelligence. Do you actually believe the things that you have pasted or are you just pointing out extreme positions just for a bit of fun.
I don't have the time to go through each one so I'll just mention the one that concerns me the most; the idea that we should hate life. The chapter from John that you quoted refers to Jesus talking about the end of his life. He has entered Jerusalem and knows that because of his words and actions he wont be allowed to live.
Anyway, throughout the history of Christianity there have been cults and writers who have tried to persuade people that life is ugly and hateful and that we should turn away from the world. This is probably the oldest misinterpretation or heresy (an old fashioned word) of the entire point of the Gospels and has to be addressed by each generation. Quite often the loudest people in forums, both medieval and online today, are screaming this heresy at the top of their lungs. They have actually given up on humans and are praying for the end of the world. Not a well thought out choice for them!
All I can do is recommend a few writers who have tried to prune this pessimistic world view. Actually I could mention dozens but I'll only suggest one, the closest, Peter McVerry, who works in Ballymun. His latest book is called 'Jesus - Social Revolutionary?'. It costs less then a tenner and if you have the guts to read it and still think when you finished it that the New Testament is about how we should hate the world then, well, I guess I'll have to leave you to cut and paste away.
Alternatively pick up a book by any of these other writers: James Martin, Gerard W Hughes, William J O'Malley, Timothy Radcliffe, Albert Nolan or Eamon Duffy.

Check who you're quoting before pasting it online. Or not, it's up to you.

I can tell from the end of your post that you are ready to start thinking for yourself rather than accept what extremists want you to think, both Christian and Atheist extremists. The above writers are an antidote to lazy thinking.
Good luck.

Ps, Jesus was accused of being a drunkard as well as everything else, although his first miracle, a favour to his Ma, may not have helped that reputation!

Hi Doc, I think you are making a very good point. For the most part I think the Bible is a fascinating read and there is a huge amount to learn from it. As I mentioned already, what you should do, what you shouldn't do. There are very good reasons that it’s been around for such a long time. And there are very good reasons that it is the bestselling book ever. I also believe that religion is an important subject for children to study at school, if not for reasons of faith, but for morality, which in my humble opinion is extremely important.

Now back to my post

I’ll admit that my “quotes” are inflammatory, as they don’t tell the whole story. A lack of context can lead to massive misunderstandings. Which is why I mentioned that the more fundamentalist among us fail to question and dig deeper. Closed thinking gets you nowhere.

The debate about Creationism, in my opinion, is extremely closed minded. Its one of those situations where its supporters will nit-pick every piece of science, but when challenged on their beliefs, they sweep it all aside with the omnipotent argument. So I find that nit-picking the Bible is the best way to draw people in.

That and the pope himself came out and said that Evolution is how things came about.

Doc Farrell wrote: »

if you have the guts to read it

I think you really are barking up the wrong tree here. Jesus the man, taking away all the God stuff and focusing purely on the ideas, from what we can/could piece together, was/could have been, a fascinating individual.

In the modern world its easy to be outspoken and opinionated. We are protected. We have rights. We have been educated, for the most part. We have sun, or skiing, holidays. We have the internet. We have social welfare and the medical card for those that need them.

None of this existed 2000 years ago. There was no such thing as human rights. There was no such thing as running fresh water, least not in the way we have now. The notion of an individual travelling across a nation, speaking out against the rulers of the day, both legal and religious, protecting the sick and the poor, is amazing concept. For someone to have such an impact in their own time, as to have people discussing their actions over 2000 years later, that is fairly unique in history. The names of the Pharaohs of Ancient Egypt were lost in time, until the rosetta stone was translated. However the name Jesus has remained with us.

But all of that has little to do with the Creationist v’s Evolutionist debate…

Masteroid wrote: »

Sorry dude, not true.

Hmm? How can one possibly be an extremist based solely on them being either a theist or an atheist? Both terms SOLELY refer to belief/disbelief, and as such I cannot see how either would be a position upon which to base an extreme view.

Gumbi wrote: »

You seem to be a newer poster 'round here. Let me tell you that you're wasting your time, in case you think you're making any headway. JC spend months, posting 100s of times, on a thread regarding evolution, all the while proposing his own whacko ideas. Just so you know what you're getting into

Thanks for the advice. I do recognise that.
He really fancies himself, I'm still trying to figure out if he is just a wind-up merchant. Being controversial just for the sake of it. I don't think he really believes half of what he writes.

Once again, just reminding people that..............

K, on the subject of evolutionary genetics and big bang theory this title is written by a Catholic professor who is also Irish.

http://www.newcitypress.com/big-bang.html

Anyone who considers this subject as being somehow anti Catholic please google the name George Lemaitre.

The author also sounds eerily like Dave Fanning...

Doc Farrell wrote: »

K, on the subject of evolutionary genetics and big bang theory this title is written by a Catholic professor who is also Irish.

http://www.newcitypress.com/big-bang.html

Anyone who considers this subject as being somehow anti Catholic please google the name George Lemaitre.

The author also sounds eerily like Dave Fanning...

He does doesn't he!

The subject of the origins of the world isn't, and where life comes from, anti anything. It doesn't matter where you live, how you live, what you believe in. Its about and includes us all.

Forgotten_1 wrote: »

Yes, very true. Extreme Evolutionists are just as FUNDAMENTALIST as religious 'believers' - neither way IMHO is the right path or ideal.

But what is 'Extreme Evolution'? I have mental images of protozoa evolving while bungee jumping....

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Last time I checked, no one blew themselves up in a packed market in the name of evolution. :pac:

Yes, but in fairness, neither have any Christians in the name of Christianity.

Forgotten_1 wrote: »

You got me wrong buddy. I ain't talking about evolution.

So, what are you talking about...?