Gardai Harrasing Busker in Templebar

MagicSean · 11-11-2012 05:16PM

Ottway wrote: »

People seem to be confusing the chap that recorded the video (sounds like a lovely gentleman) with the busker himself. It's a pity they didn't arrest the former from what I can see from the video, as surely he was guilty of obstructing Gardai in their duty. The busker though, seemed to do very little wrong. People speculate that he must have said something, but that did not appear to be the case at all.

Why the need to drag him up off his seat by the collar when seconds before we see him conversing with Guard. No matter what was said to the Guard in those two to three seconds that the camera pans away, nothing justifies the action of those Guards.

If he said something that he needed to be arrested for, then surely the Guard just had to tell him that he was under arrest and explain just what for, ask him stand up and then, if he refuses, use force as once a person is under arrest, Gardai then have the power to tell them what to do but not before as you don't have to swing out of someone in order to arrest them.

If you listen at the start you can hear the Garda informing him he believed him to have been involved in an earlier public order incident. That's what it sounds like to me anyway.

MagicSean · 11-11-2012 05:21PM

yard_king wrote: »

never understood the phrase , its a thankless job , to me a thankless job is one you dont get paid for , guards are very well paid

Think it means it's a job where you will never be able to please everyone no matter how well you do it.

asherbassad · 11-11-2012 05:32PM

GrumPy wrote: »

Love how the camera man sounds like an absolute knackbag.

A knackbag who has the courage to question authority. A knackbag who has the moral fibre to express his outrage at violence directed at a fellow human being. A knackbag who most likely would do the same if it was you who was being punched up by cowboy cops.

Would you tell him "get thee away, peasant! I only wish to have refined folk with polished D4 accents coming to my defence. Away with you, vile pleb!" ?

A Primal Nut · 11-11-2012 05:32PM

Not sure what the problem is. The guy resisted arrest, the Gards dealt with it and got their man without resorting to any kind of extreme violence.

A couple of other guys could have been arrested for interfering with their work.

steddyeddy · 11-11-2012 05:32PM

yard_king wrote: »

guards have always shown deference to powerfull figures and institutions , they are insiders and are motivated by who is complaining or who is being complained about

cardinal brady is roundly condemned for not having gone to the guards in 1975 , two things would have happened had he done so

the guards would have done nothing

brady would have spent the rest of his days working as a missionary rank and file in nigeria

anyone who expects the guards to row in behind radical opposition to traditional power structures and institutions is indeed naive

Sorry but I feel a bit quesy after reading that. I will always expect the state police force not to cover up child abuse.

Local-womanizer · 11-11-2012 05:42PM

I thought it has been established the busker was wanted for an earlier public order incident?

You can resist arrest without being violent, and the police have the right to wrestle you to the ground, it's that simple.

Any video like this has an agenda, to paint the police in a bad light. Otherwise they would provide the full facts as to what was happening and let the viewer decide for themselves.

They have a difficult enough job without other members of the public interfering in arrests.

And seriously, them bystanders need to piss off with their high and mighty crap, how do they know what the guy is being lifted for. In England all them people would be told to move on or they will be arrested, if they refused they would be pepper sprayed.

And the camera man should have been arrested for his language towards the guards. Watch any police show in England and he would have been in the back of a van after 2 warnings. Absolute idiot.

asherbassad · 11-11-2012 05:44PM

true-or-false wrote: »

If they didn't want any hassle then why were they crowding the gardaí and shouting at them?

If I'm walking through town and yell "filth!" at someone, I'd expect what I got, never mind if I said it to a garda.

So what's your recommended course of action when your rights are being violated? Say "with all due respect, sir, you are mistaken. It is illegal to beat this gentleman."

Beating continues. You get a slap in the mouth as well just for good measure. Do you then respond "Oh well, I did everything I could." ..and then slope off to the emergency room safe in the knowledge that the authorities are doing everything to protect and serve you.?

steddyeddy · 11-11-2012 05:45PM

The public shouldnt have interferred at all. They probrably contributed to the situation.

yard_king · 11-11-2012 05:45PM

MagicSean wrote: »

Think it means it's a job where you will never be able to please everyone no matter how well you do it.

ive as much interest in discussing AGS with you as i have the croke park agreement with jack o connor or athiesm with josef ratzinger

yard_king · 11-11-2012 05:47PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Sorry but I feel a bit quesy after reading that. I will always expect the state police force not to cover up child abuse.

like everything else , it depends who charges are laid against , guards ( and police the world over ) have always been deferential to power , they are highly political in how they opperate

asherbassad · 11-11-2012 05:53PM

petersburg2002 wrote: »

Well guards hate nothing more than a jeering crowd looking on. They obviously didn't want to look like complete tools so got tough. Crowd made it worse if anything and all filming away on their phones. I hear they want to make that a criminal offence Spain. Must be something more to it. UK cops will arrest anyone who gets in their face and are much tougher. Likewise for European cops.

What, like these two ****:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LMKBuGvGUo

MagicSean · 11-11-2012 05:57PM

yard_king wrote: »

ive as much interest in discussing AGS with you as i have the croke park agreement with jack o connor or athiesm with josef ratzinger

I would think a re-reg would be up for any discussion.

0ph0rce0 · 11-11-2012 05:58PM

I smell Bacon in this thread.... Scatter!

yard_king · 11-11-2012 06:01PM

MagicSean wrote: »

I would think a re-reg would be up for any discussion.

well the mods certainly are an authoratarian bunch , your kind of folk

neil_hosey · 11-11-2012 06:10PM

the hilarious thing about this is i regularly see people openly dealing heroin in maybe 10 or so locations within a 100 metre radius of the hapenny bridge... and theres 4 garda here... doing this shít... its unfúckingbelieveable

asherbassad · 11-11-2012 06:14PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I wonder what the effect of pepper spray is. Does it just make your eyes water or is it painful?

It's agonising. Akin to having bleach or acid thrown in your face except it doesn't generally have lasting damage. It causes stinging and blindness that lasts for about an hour. It also impairs your breathing. If you want to get an idea of how bad it is just chop up about 20 small red chillis and mix them in with some warm salty water. Put that in a water pistol and give yourself a good blast in the face (or if you don't want to then turn it on your poor dog).

Let us know how you get on.

Piliger · 11-11-2012 06:15PM

Excellent and brave work by these poor Gardai. Stupid ignorant bystanders and I thought the Gardai were way too restrained. The bull**** they have to put up with :rolleyes:

steddyeddy · 11-11-2012 06:16PM

In fairness I feel it necessary to point myself apart from some of the rabble here. I have issues with certain gaurds in relation to their inaction of child abuse (which affected me personally) I dont think all gaurds are bad. Most of them are good people. My issues arent with the force but individuals. I think the difference between me and others is that I dont have an problem with the gaurds in general and I dont think its nice calling them scum and other words.

11-11-2012 06:17PM

asherbassad wrote: »

So what's your recommended course of action when your rights are being violated? Say "with all due respect, sir, you are mistaken. It is illegal to beat this gentleman."

While I wouldn't say the above, I do think it's a genuinely better, smarter, and more productive thing to do than yell "FILTH!" and shove a camera up the garda's ass. Pretty much anything would be.

The lads in the video were causing trouble for themselves. It was handled badly by the gardaí, but they weren't the bad guys in the situation from what I could see. They wouldn't have handled the situation so badly if those lads hadn't been acting like that in the first place.

In my opinion the video is a good case for better training for AGS, but certainly is not police brutality or random targeting.

asherbassad · 11-11-2012 06:19PM

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Not sure what the problem is. The guy resisted arrest, the Gards dealt with it and got their man without resorting to any kind of extreme violence.

A couple of other guys could have been arrested for interfering with their work.

Resisted arrest? What was he being arrested for. I didn't hear anyone saying "You are being arrested under Section whatever of whatever act."

If anything he was resisting HARASSMENT not ARREST.

Local-womanizer · 11-11-2012 06:20PM

asherbassad wrote: »

Resisted arrest? What was he being arrested for. I didn't hear anyone saying "You are being arrested under Section whatever of whatever act."

If anything he was resisting HARASSMENT not ARREST.

He was being arrested in relation to an earlier public order incident

BlatentCheek · 11-11-2012 06:27PM

It's very difficult to really see whats happening in that video. TBF the Guards have the legal power to do what they did, the arrested person was uncooperative and the Guards were facing abuse and obstruction. Their behaviour certainly seems excessive but we don't know what he said to them or what happened prior to the camera being turned on. While I disagree with what they did I'm not surprised and anyone with commonsense would avoid getting in that situation with the Guarrds.

BUT

I'd take a better view of this sort of behaviour from the Guards if they applied it to violent criminals as well as peaceful buskers who are unlikely to hit back. Guards love acting the big man when they have numbers on their side and they're facing people who aren't particularly violent, shell to sea protestors or college student type activists "scarf draggers" as I've heard Guards describe them; when they're facing genuinely violent people very different tactics seem to prevail, such as the shameful spectacle of Alan Ryan's funeral. This isn't something unique to the Gardai either, other police forces seem the same in this regard: for example the London Met are well know for their heavy handed treatment of peaceful protestors but in the London riots last year they seemed to be paralysed into inaction by the prospect of taking on people who'd hit back, at least for the fist few days.

MagicSean · 11-11-2012 06:31PM

BlatentCheek wrote: »

It's very difficult to really see whats happening in that video. TBF the Guards have the legal power to do what they did, the arrested person was uncooperative and the Guards were facing abuse and obstruction. Their behaviour certainly seems excessive but we don't know what he said to them or what happened prior to the camera being turned on. While I disagree with what they did I'm not surprised and anyone with commonsense would avoid getting in that situation with the Guarrds.

BUT

I'd take a better view of this sort of behaviour from the Guards if they applied it to violent criminals as well as peaceful buskers who are unlikely to hit back. Guards love acting the big man when they have numbers on their side and they're facing people who aren't particularly violent, shell to sea protestors or college student type activists "scarf draggers" as I've heard Guards describe them; when they're facing genuinely violent people very different tactics seem to prevail, such as the shameful spectacle of Alan Ryan's funeral. This isn't something unique to the Gardai either, other police forces seem the same in this regard: for example the London Met are well know for their heavy handed treatment of peaceful protestors but in the London riots last year they seemed to be paralysed into inaction by the prospect of taking on people who'd hit back, at least for the fist few days.

Interesting theory. The problem is that you've never seen youtube video of violent people being arrested so you don't think it happens.

Cheeky_gal · 11-11-2012 06:32PM

That video seemed to be full of kn*ckers if I were a guard I would have arrested them myself.

The guards don't have enough power in this country they should be given the right to beat the cr*p out of sc*mbags like this (the guy who recorded the video).

Then again - it's hard to have respect for the guards when they'll chase after you at 11pm on a quiet Tuesday night driving 70 on a 60 zone, not a sinner on the road, and give you an €80 fine along with two points. You would think they'd let you away with something as minor as that and spend their time fighting sc*mbags chopping one another up.

It's the odd asshole guard that let's the average guard down.

asherbassad · 11-11-2012 06:34PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

The public shouldnt have interferred at all. They probrably contributed to the situation.

Ah yes.....the all too familiar "probably" thrown out by those who just want to speculate rather than examine the facts.

Girl gets raped. She "probably" asked for it what with her short skirt and provocative makeup.
Guy gets gunned down on the tube by undercover cops. He "probably" had serious terrorist connections. After all, the cops have flawless intelligence.

Busker get manhandled, pepper sprayed and arrested in Temple Bar. He "probably" had a string of felony convictions, was "probably" well known to the Gardai and "probably" had a veritable arsenal of illegal weaponry and contraband stashed in his guitar case.

charlemont · 11-11-2012 06:41PM

Míshásta wrote: »

There was a lot we didn't see there. Why was he being arrested? Are the Guards just going to leave someone off because he resists arrest and runs away. The guy with the camera was not just filming and he was being provocative. Insulting the guards and using fowl language isn't going to calm the situation.

That clip was just ****-stirring - somebody with a gripe with the guards.

Seems to me there should have been at least one more arrest for interfering with police acting in the line of duty.

The baying drunks in the background did nothing to ease the situation either.

Have to agree with this and normally I'm one to complain about Gardaí..

Local-womanizer · 11-11-2012 06:42PM

asherbassad wrote: »

Ah yes.....the all too familiar "probably" thrown out by those who just want to speculate rather than examine the facts.

Girl gets raped. She "probably" asked for it what with her short skirt and provocative makeup.
Guy gets gunned down on the tube by undercover cops. He "probably" had serious terrorist connections. After all, the cops have flawless intelligence.

Busker get manhandled, pepper sprayed and arrested in Temple Bar. He "probably" had a string of felony convictions, was "probably" well known to the Gardai and "probably" had a veritable arsenal of illegal weaponry and contraband stashed in his guitar case.

Your argument makes no sense. You are bringing in a case from England, I've never heard any guard or person saying a rape victim was asking for it, and this guy was wanted in connection with an earlier offence.

The public are not allowed to interfere with the AGS in the execution of their duties, simple as.

Why don't you put up a proper argument and point out the gardai brutality here?

You resist arrest and the police are hardly going to say, " ah sure come on lads, lets go, this guy doesn't want to be arrested"

seiphil · 11-11-2012 06:48PM

My grandad was robbed recently and the culprits were caught. When the Gardai were explaining the situation to us they made sure to tell us that they will be "sorted out" but can't take them up to the mountains like they used too.

On one side I was happy that these scumbags were getting thought a lesson but on the other hand you can't have Gardai going around lumping people in cells or down alleys. Have seen it all before.

We are meant to trust our police force but how can you when they do the likes off this.

Not all are bad mind you.

asherbassad · 11-11-2012 06:49PM

Local-womanizer wrote: »

He was being arrested in relation to an earlier public order incident

Then why all the talk by the Gardai about them busking? According to an earlier post the Gardai told the group that they couldn't perform with amplifiers. They then proceeded to play "unplugged" whereupon the police returned to break up the performance. Why if the man was being arrested for an earlier offence was he not arrested during the first police encounter?

asherbassad · 11-11-2012 06:56PM

BlatentCheek wrote: »

It's very difficult to really see whats happening in that video. TBF the Guards have the legal power to do what they did, the arrested person was uncooperative and the Guards were facing abuse and obstruction. Their behaviour certainly seems excessive but we don't know what he said to them or what happened prior to the camera being turned on. While I disagree with what they did I'm not surprised and anyone with commonsense would avoid getting in that situation with the Guarrds.

BUT

I'd take a better view of this sort of behaviour from the Guards if they applied it to violent criminals as well as peaceful buskers who are unlikely to hit back. Guards love acting the big man when they have numbers on their side and they're facing people who aren't particularly violent, shell to sea protestors or college student type activists "scarf draggers" as I've heard Guards describe them; when they're facing genuinely violent people very different tactics seem to prevail, such as the shameful spectacle of Alan Ryan's funeral. This isn't something unique to the Gardai either, other police forces seem the same in this regard: for example the London Met are well know for their heavy handed treatment of peaceful protestors but in the London riots last year they seemed to be paralysed into inaction by the prospect of taking on people who'd hit back, at least for the fist few days.

Hear hear. US cops are no different. They'll gleefully batter little hippy chicks at peaceful rallies but huddle behind their cars quaking in fear and looking at each other like stunned mullets when some bloke is on a rampage with a gun in a shopping mall or high school.

Gardai Harrasing Busker in Templebar

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