Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13 MOD POST #232

tayto lover · 10-11-2012 10:27PM

Soups123 wrote: »

That's shocking he's gone from Molly codling kids to Molly codling grown men.

I found the comments at the bottom of the article very interesting.
A growing number of fans are losing patience it seems.

Sergio · 10-11-2012 10:49PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I found the comments at the bottom of the article very interesting.
A growing number of fans are losing patience it seems.

Yeah i read the comments from fans and they are spot on to be honest i feel exactly the same.We as a team are going around in circles it seems the last few seasons are the same. No passion,drive or fighting spirit in the team. I hate using man utd as an example but again today they proved that with right mentality you can always bounce back. They were 2-0 down tonight and came back and won 3-2,we were 2-0 nil up and were lucky to get a point at the end of the game :rolleyes:

keano_afc · 10-11-2012 11:21PM

He seems to have about 3 different interview templates he rolls out depending on the result. I hate this one the most though. I wouldnt praise a team that gave away a second 2 goal lead in 3 days as having "spirit". But what else is he going to say, the truth? "My hands are tied here because we have to sell to buy. We cant pay the wages top teams pay. We are no longer a big club, as the sale of RvP proved. I hope our rivals have another disastrous season, as there's no way this mentally crippled bunch will get top 4 on their own".

It would be entertaining, but it aint gonna happen.

Fuzzy_Dunlop · 10-11-2012 11:44PM

I'm actually coming around to the idea of moyes being Wengers successor. Made some great signings for Everton.

ugsparky · 11-11-2012 01:00AM

I got lambasted here a while back for saying we weren't going to be top 4, that we would soon see crowds of 40 - 50 thousand etc.

We are not a big club anymore. We are a club with a big history ... that's history ...

Without trying to be too simplistic I just think that we reacted too slowly to Chelsea/Man Utd/Man City buying up all the talent. We had chances to stay in contact, but we choose a path that was always going to result in players being poached/coaxed away for bigger money and prizes. When we made huge profit on players we sold why did we not at least try and replace some of them with players of equal potential or standard ? Two obvious comparisons - Cesc/Hazard & Nasri/Mata ...
Some of the players we could have got without bankrupting the club and still in keeping with our ethos - Lloris, Vertonghen, Huntelaar ... Instead we invested in players who were quite frankly a big gamble ... Koscielny, Gervinho, Podolski, Giroud. I actually like Koscielney, Podolski and Giroud - but are they the players that we really need ? - especially as we have decided to play Podolski out of position and refuse to play to Giroud's strengths !!!

When you look at the Arsenal squad at the moment you have to admit that there are many players on good money that would not interest any top clubs in the Premiership or Europe. There was suppossed to be a clearout of players during the last transfer window ... we couldn't get rid of half of them - so we're stuck with - Squillachi, Djourou, Fabianski, Mannone, Diaby*, Rosicky*, Chamahk, Arshavin ... *that seems a bit harsh but in reality will we ever see a fit Diaby or Rosicky ? ...

I was so p*ssed when RvP left. How could he, and how could he go to them? But the truth is why did he and Cesc and Nasri and Henry and Vieira and Hleb and Flamini and Cole leave ? ... because the club didn't show enough ambition and appetite to keep them - that's why. All of these players didn't leave just because of money. Realistically we are not competing for either the Champions Lge or Premiership. If we were why would those players leave for the clubs they left for ? When we sold Cesc and Nasri if we had bought Sneider would RvP still be here ? If you put a team together of the players we have sold in the last 8 years they could probably beat this current Arsenal team !!! We've been paying 4 players £200k when we should be paying two quality players £100K. Where is the wisdom in selling our best players to our (once) biggest rivals ? What message does it send out about our club ? We're bargain hunting all the time and it's come back to bite us in the arse. If we lose Theo and Cazorla then we only have a young Jack to provide any little bit of flair - and if he gets injured ? We're playing with our third choice goalkeeper !!!

I think we've passed a point of no return for at least a number of years. I don't think we're going to make a Champions Lge place, so that revenue will be lost. The attendance at AFC will also dip - it could be as low as 40,000 - two thirds full - especially at the prices being charged - anyone that wants to watch football can go and see it at some of the other Premiership London clubs - even to see Chelsea/Man U/City - if you think about it who would be the bigger draw Arsenal v Man U at €160 for two tickets or QPR/Fulham/West Ham v Man U at €100 for two tickets ... you can get tickets for these games. I think the Board and particularly the Kroenke connection do not have any idea or care about the supporters of Arsenal. It's just a business to them.

This will be a defining season for us. I just hope Arsene takes the two cup competitions a bit more seriously ... if only for the fans sake.

11-11-2012 01:13AM

tayto lover wrote: »

Watching that defence and that clown of a goalkeeper really is depressing.

Steve Bould!

steve-holt.jpg?width=460

Fuzzy_Dunlop · 11-11-2012 01:21AM

ugsparky wrote: »

I got lambasted here a while back for saying we weren't going to be top 4, that we would soon see crowds of 40 - 50 thousand etc.

We are not a big club anymore. We are a club with a big history ... that's history ...

Without trying to be too simplistic I just think that we reacted too slowly to Chelsea/Man Utd/Man City buying up all the talent. We had chances to stay in contact, but we choose a path that was always going to result in players being poached/coaxed away for bigger money and prizes. When we made huge profit on players we sold why did we not at least try and replace some of them with players of equal potential or standard ? Two obvious comparisons - Cesc/Hazard & Nasri/Mata ...
Some of the players we could have got without bankrupting the club and still in keeping with our ethos - Lloris, Vertonghen, Huntelaar ... Instead we invested in players who were quite frankly a big gamble ... Koscielny, Gervinho, Podolski, Giroud. I actually like Koscielney, Podolski and Giroud - but are they the players that we really need ? - especially as we have decided to play Podolski out of position and refuse to play to Giroud's strengths !!!

When you look at the Arsenal squad at the moment you have to admit that there are many players on good money that would not interest any top clubs in the Premiership or Europe. There was suppossed to be a clearout of players during the last transfer window ... we couldn't get rid of half of them - so we're stuck with - Squillachi, Djourou, Fabianski, Mannone, Diaby*, Rosicky*, Chamahk, Arshavin ... *that seems a bit harsh but in reality will we ever see a fit Diaby or Rosicky ? ...

I was so p*ssed when RvP left. How could he, and how could he go to them? But the truth is why did he and Cesc and Nasri and Henry and Vieira and Hleb and Flamini and Cole leave ? ... because the club didn't show enough ambition and appetite to keep them - that's why. All of these players didn't leave just because of money. Realistically we are not competing for either the Champions Lge or Premiership. If we were why would those players leave for the clubs they left for ? When we sold Cesc and Nasri if we had bought Sneider would RvP still be here ? If you put a team together of the players we have sold in the last 8 years they could probably beat this current Arsenal team !!! We've been paying 4 players £200k when we should be paying two quality players £100K. Where is the wisdom in selling our best players to our (once) biggest rivals ? What message does it send out about our club ? We're bargain hunting all the time and it's come back to bite us in the arse. If we lose Theo and Cazorla then we only have a young Jack to provide any little bit of flair - and if he gets injured ? We're playing with our third choice goalkeeper !!!

I think we've passed a point of no return for at least a number of years. I don't think we're going to make a Champions Lge place, so that revenue will be lost. The attendance at AFC will also dip - it could be as low as 40,000 - two thirds full - especially at the prices being charged - anyone that wants to watch football can go and see it at some of the other Premiership London clubs - even to see Chelsea/Man U/City - if you think about it who would be the bigger draw Arsenal v Man U at €160 for two tickets or QPR/Fulham/West Ham v Man U at €100 for two tickets ... you can get tickets for these games. I think the Board and particularly the Kroenke connection do not have any idea or care about the supporters of Arsenal. It's just a business to them.

This will be a defining season for us. I just hope Arsene takes the two cup competitions a bit more seriously ... if only for the fans sake.

You make a lot of good points but I disagree with the first and second last paragraphs which are overly dramatic. I really don't see the attendance dropping that low, sure even today was a 'sell out' on tickets sold. And we are a big club, obviously not as big as the likes of United, Barca, Real but still a very stable club with a huge following and great financial potential when we get over the stadium hangover fully.

Barlett · 11-11-2012 01:59AM

They are a big club, the 6th biggest in Europe supposedly. But fans especially those paying for tickets are being seriously ripped off. I mean even Arsenal don't play the most scintillating football anymore and the insane wages some of the players are on. I know it's often thrown about but the slip can be traced back to Dein's departure him & Wenger had a good working partnership by the looks of things and Wenger on his own just isn't working out.

They're throwing all their hopes on financial fair play but it'll be interesting to see how tight that laws of that are once put into practice because clubs will exploit any loophole they can.

It's good qualifying for the Champ League and all but the whole ethos of the club seems to be about qualifying for the champions league, get past the group stage and it doesn't really matter after that. The EPL is gone weird like that where it's more important to qualify for competitions rather than actually win them.

Going completely off point now but Id love to see and end to the 4th place rubbish and have the FA Cup winners qualify for the Champions League.

irish son · 11-11-2012 02:50AM

Very poor today, we were lucky to get a point, it was shocking to see a midtable team create so many chances at the Emirates. Giroud was the big plus point today, its great to have a striker who can really attack crosses and if we are playing him we really have to play Walcott aswell because I cant see the rest of our "wingers" whipping many balls in.

I still think 4th is still well within our reach but it wont be as easy as we thought earlier in the year. Everton are going well but they are only 4 points ahead and have yet to play Man City and Chelsea, West Brom have had a good start and are a good team but you would expect them to fall back a bit, Spurs have had a similar start to ourselves and look shaky at the back, Newcastle are showing that last year was a fluke and Liverpool have no striker. We have to improve but at the moment I still think we will get 4th.

L'prof · 11-11-2012 03:07AM

Barlett wrote: »

They are a big club, the 6th biggest in Europe supposedly. But fans especially those paying for tickets are being seriously ripped off. I mean even Arsenal don't play the most scintillating football anymore and the insane wages some of the players are on. I know it's often thrown about but the slip can be traced back to Dein's departure him & Wenger had a good working partnership by the looks of things and Wenger on his own just isn't working out.

I don't agree to be honest. I don't think you're alone in your opinions and I wasn't happy when Dein left either, but the rot had already started before that.

Personally, I think it has far more to do with the move to the Emirates and lack of funds. The high wage bill doesn't help either, pretty sickening how much we spend on wages considering we cant afford to keep our best players or attract the bigger players in the game.

11-11-2012 03:13AM

irish son wrote: »

it was shocking to see a midtable team create so many chances at the Emirates.

...Yeah but we were at home...

blingrhino · 11-11-2012 10:14AM

Like it or not the rvp departure to man utd was wengers biggest mistake at the club ,watching him last night , even though he didn't score he's pure class .
He should have been kept at any price.

klose · 11-11-2012 10:40AM

Ye might have ended up in a llorente/Bilbao situation then! He badly wanted out but wasn't allowed and apparently his attitude stinks and they've been poor enough this season scoring only 1 in 6 for em!

.jacksparrow. · 11-11-2012 10:42AM

Ha

emergingstar · 11-11-2012 11:24AM

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

I'm actually coming around to the idea of moyes being Wengers successor. Made some great signings for Everton.

Wenger is doing a better job than moyes with the same constraints

Quazzie · 11-11-2012 11:27AM

emergingstar wrote: »

Wenger is doing a better job than moyes with the same constraints

Do you seriously think Arsenal and Everton have the same budgets?

emergingstar · 11-11-2012 11:36AM

The stadium move is what slowed us down can't wait to see how spurs, Liverpool, and Everton do when they build there own stadiums
Our wage bill is also backwards instead of having 3 average players on 50 grand a week we should be signing one world class player on 150 grand, I hope this will change

I think we will make top 4 handy enough this season. That's about all we can aim for and until we have more money to spend that's about all we can expect, our days of winning titles are over and that won't change for a least another two years

Taking all that into account top 4 this season I will be happy man, was gonna say hopefully we keep our top players in the summer but apart from jack I wouldn't care if any of them are sold

emergingstar · 11-11-2012 11:37AM

Quazzie wrote: »

Do you seriously think Arsenal and Everton have the same budgets?

Look into it, not a lot different

Royale with Cheese · 11-11-2012 11:40AM

At least we don't have to worry about the squad being broken up again next summer. Apart from Jack I don't think bigger clubs would want any of the squad. Maybe Sagna and Santi too.

emergingstar · 11-11-2012 11:42AM

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

At least we don't have to worry about the squad being broken up again next summer. Apart from Jack I don't think bigger clubs would want any of the squad. Maybe Sagna and Santi too.

I would happily sanga for a decent price

Quazzie · 11-11-2012 11:43AM

emergingstar wrote: »

Look into it, not a lot different

Everton with a wage bill of £54.3 million per season (Source)

Arsenal's wage bill of £143.4 million per season. (Source)

IS £90 million not a lot in your book?

emergingstar · 11-11-2012 11:46AM

Quazzie wrote: »

Everton with a wage bill of £54.3 million per season (Source)
Arsenal's wage bill of £143.4 million per season. (Source)

IS £90 million not a lot in your book?

And Everton finishes every season about where they should, as does arsenal

I don't see how moyes Is an upgrade on wenger

Quazzie · 11-11-2012 11:53AM

emergingstar wrote: »

And Everton finishes every season about where they should, as does arsenal

I don't see how moyes Is an upgrade on wenger

You said they have the same constraints. I'm just pointing out that they are vastly different. Moyes given our budget could outshine Wenger. To me Wenger has been showing a severe lack of tactical awareness, and poor management recently, especially when it comes to the timing and selection of his substitutions. Some of his calls are bizarre, and his effect on the outcome of our game is apparently less and less as time goes on. He has a plan A he starts the game with, but there is never a Plan B in case we need a change, and this has been a problem all throughout his tenure.

MaxPower89 · 11-11-2012 12:00PM

Another disappointing result yesterday then....can't remember the last time I actually enjoyed watching the Arsenal, regardless of score, always have the sick feeling we are going to lose.

In previous years, I could take losing, knowing that we were playing some slick football and maybe were just a bit inexperienced to see though the big games. But this current team play poor stuff, I don't enjoy watching our style anymore, we are no longer a team the neutrals enjoy watching. For a team with such a high wage bill our squad is so thin and weak, AOC was the only player of quality to bring on yesterday.

My biggest gripe at the moment is how often we turn over possession needlessly. We give away corners and frees stupidly. We are headless chickens, Kos gave it away in the blink of an eye yesterday to give a corner and then we conceed, where is the calmness? Poldolski just fouls needlessly, did he not see Vermaelen give Chelsea 2 frees only a few weeks ago and see us conceed from both? Its the same mistakes week in week out.

Not sure why Ramsey was brought on yesterday, he was appalling once again, I though Coquelin was doing ok and at least can get about the park, Ramsey is slow and static, and was lucky to stay on the field.

We need rid of a number of players: Diaby, Rosicky, Ramsey, Djourou, Santos, Chamak; some because they are not good enough, others because they just cant be relied upon.

11-11-2012 12:13PM

The Arsenal's in the blood and it'll always remain, but it's tough to call myself an "Arsenal fan" these days. I find myself not rushing home or to the pub to watch us play anymore. Maybe it's also age creeping up on me, because I find they're not on my list of prioritis anymore.

Kinda sad.

11-11-2012 12:13PM

The Arsenal's in the blood and it'll always remain, but it's tough to call myself an "Arsenal fan" these days. I find myself not rushing home or to the pub to watch us play anymore. Maybe it's also age creeping up on me, because I find they're not on my list of prioritis anymore.

Kinda sad.

emergingstar · 11-11-2012 12:15PM

Quazzie wrote: »

You said they have the same constraints. I'm just pointing out that they are vastly different. Moyes given our budget could outshine Wenger. To me Wenger has been showing a severe lack of tactical awareness, and poor management recently, especially when it comes to the timing and selection of his substitutions. Some of his calls are bizarre, and his effect on the outcome of our game is apparently less and less as time goes on. He has a plan A he starts the game with, but there is never a Plan B in case we need a change, and this has been a problem all throughout his tenure.

All fair points and criticisms, finding it hard to argue with that

dvemail · 11-11-2012 12:49PM

I think what Wenger has done for the club is incredible, and he will be a legend of the club for years to come even if he were to leave tomorrow. The amount of work he does behind the scenes, bringing in youngsters and turning them into world stars (in some cases) is nothing to be sniffed at.
But i think he needs to become more tactically astute, everyone knows we are not the team we used to be. We don't have the players to boss and control the speed of a game anymore. Our passing is much slower than it used to be and yesterday i reckon Mannone got as many touches of the ball from back passes as some Prem midfielders would get in a whole match.
When playing teams like City, United and Chelsea Wenger has to just swallow his pride and change his side up a bit. Whether it be playing a bit more defensively and strike on the counter or just learn how to pass the ball faster. Every manager in the league knows before a match what type of match Arsenal will play, and they can plan for it. It's all just too predictable at the moment.

Not calling for Wenger out, but just for Wenger to wake up and realise he is the captain of a sinking ship.

tayto lover · 11-11-2012 01:21PM

My problem with Wenger is that --

1. He is too slow to see where the problems are during games (Santos last week is typical example)

2. He is too slow to address signings (we need a keeper badly, he didn't sign a proper DM to replace Song. Teams having more chances against us is down to this in my opinion)

3. He has no plan B when things are not working.

4. He is not up-front with the fans who are paying his wages. (tells untruths regarding finances, injuries etc)

5. He is too involved in the financial side of things (he should know his budget, use it and barter for better money and let the Board deal with finances)

6. Allowing contracts to run down.

emergingstar · 11-11-2012 01:38PM

tayto lover wrote: »

My problem with Wenger is that --

1. He is too slow to see where the problems are during games (Santos last week is typical example)

2. He is too slow to address signings (we need a keeper badly, he didn't sign a proper DM to replace Song. Teams having more chances against us is down to this in my opinion)

3. He has no plan B when things are not working.

4. He is not up-front with the fans who are paying his wages. (tells untruths regarding finances, injuries etc)

5. He is too involved in the financial side of things (he should know his budget, use it and barter for better money and let the Board deal with finances)

6. Allowing contracts to run down.

2. We don't no what money he has
6. That's Ivan's job

Everything else is spot on, good post

Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13 MOD POST #232

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