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RUMEN FLUKE HELP !!

  • 09-11-2012 09:32PM
    #1
    MOOVAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70 ✭✭


    My DAIRY Herd have tested positive for rumen fluke (no liverfluke OR worms in the herd).What are my options (i don't want to use zanil so don't mention it in feedback please).I'm sick of vets etc. saying they can't advise on unlicenced formulations for DAIRY HERDS. I won't be using dose during lactation just at drying off so it won't impact on milk withdrawl.
    Thanks :)


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Comments

  • #2
    whelan1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭whelan1


    MOOVAN wrote: »
    My DAIRY Herd have tested positive for rumen fluke (no liverfluke OR worms in the herd).What are my options (i don't want to use zanil so don't mention it in feedback please).I'm sick of vets etc. saying they can't advise on unlicenced formulations for DAIRY HERDS. I won't be using dose during lactation just at drying off so it won't impact on milk withdrawl.
    Thanks :)
    are you for real:eek: why not zanil! think youre a messer tbh


  • #3
    MOOVAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70 ✭✭MOOVAN


    zanil too severe,used it two years ago.No messing here


  • #4
    stop animal cruelty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,012 ✭✭✭stop animal cruelty


    my dad swears by sea water..think it was fluke one of our cows had, cant remember, put about litre of sea water back down her throat, walla, fine again.


  • #5
    whelan1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭whelan1


    maybe if you used the right dose it wouldnt be too severe, have used it properly here for years no probs, levafas diamond has after effects


  • #6
    mf240
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,890 ✭✭✭mf240


    I think if there badly affected they will have a severe reaction to the dose.


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  • #7
    MOOVAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70 ✭✭MOOVAN


    sea water thats anew one to me .I won't rule it out .thanks.
    Whelan. thanks for your reply .I have used zanil to the proper dosage and as i have said i do not have liverfluke so i am just looking for specific rumenfluke treatments.


  • #8
    whelan1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭whelan1


    MOOVAN wrote: »
    sea water thats anew one to me .I won't rule it out .thanks.
    Whelan. thanks for your reply .I have used zanil to the proper dosage and as i have said i do not have liverfluke so i am just looking for specific rumenfluke treatments.
    mmmmmmmmmmmmmm zanil is a rumen fluke treatment:confused:


  • #9
    whelan1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭whelan1


    mf240 wrote: »
    I think if there badly affected they will have a severe reaction to the dose.
    thus it is a sign it is working


  • #10
    MOOVAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70 ✭✭MOOVAN


    mf240 . What kind of reactions could they get ?


  • #11
    MOOVAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70 ✭✭MOOVAN


    Whelan 1.thanks again .As i have said in my first post I am looking for an alternative.


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  • #12
    whelan1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭whelan1


    sure what would the vets know anyways:rolleyes: you are on a public forum


  • #13
    1chippy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭1chippy


    theres a rumen fluke thread a few weeks back. well worth reading.


  • #14
    Rovi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,570 ✭✭✭Rovi


    [MOD]
    OP, nobody is going to offer advice or suggestions on 'unlicenced formulations' here either, as to do so would be against section 2 of the forum charter.
    At best, all anyone here can do is give their own experience of dealing with similar problems.
    [/MOD]

    Realistically, your best option IS the advice and professional diagnosis of a vet.
    If you're not happy with what your current vet is saying, there are plenty more out there.


  • #15
    MOOVAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70 ✭✭MOOVAN


    I am new to this,but i will see if i can find that previous forum.Thanks.


  • #16
    Rovi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,570 ✭✭✭Rovi


    Here's that other thread:
    Rumen Fluke Treatment


  • #17
    MOOVAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70 ✭✭MOOVAN


    Vets are restricted by red tape and pharma companies ,sometimes i think they are afraid of saying anything in case they get into trouble and I don't blame them really i know a fare few beauties who blame the vet for everything !!


  • #18
    MOOVAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70 ✭✭MOOVAN


    Thank you Rovi.


  • #19
    deerejohn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 ✭deerejohn


    From what i have been reliably told over the past 3 years, zanil and levafas diamond are the only 2 products which can kill rumen fluke. After a problem with rumen fluke in 2010 when we dosed the cows with zanil the first time, they improved in 3/4 days. When we dosed them 1 month later with zanil again, it knocked hell out of them. But we were told that they had to get the second dose and thats that.
    Now cows are dosed at drying off and again 1 month later.


  • #20
    greysides
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    The presence of RF eggs in faeces is proof there are RF present. It is not proof they are causing a problem.

    If you won't use the recommended treatment, the only recommended treatment, then the best you can hope for is the placebo effect.

    Make sure to tell the cows they are being treated for RF as you give them something useless or it can't work.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • #21
    just do it
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    MOOVAN wrote: »
    My DAIRY Herd have tested positive for rumen fluke (no liverfluke OR worms in the herd).What are my options (i don't want to use zanil so don't mention it in feedback please).I'm sick of vets etc. saying they can't advise on unlicenced formulations for DAIRY HERDS. I won't be using dose during lactation just at drying off so it won't impact on milk withdrawl.
    Thanks :)
    Moovan
    Welcome to boards.ie. I've read the thread so know your thoughts. Before dosing have you a problem? Most if not all cattle carry rumen fluke and it causes them no harm. Just because they test positive doesn't necessarily mean you've a clinical problem. Given you've no liver fluke I guess you've a dry enough farm. Why did you test the cows? Routine or investigation of some problem?

    The other thread on rumen fluke is worth reading and a vet is the only one that can give a definitive answer.

    Edit - added my experiences and thoughts on RF to the other thread that Rovi has given a link to above.


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  • #22
    freedominacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    just do it wrote: »
    Moovan
    Welcome to boards.ie. I've read the thread so know your thoughts. Before dosing have you a problem? Most if not all cattle carry rumen fluke and it causes them no harm. Just because they test positive doesn't necessarily mean you've a clinical problem. Given you've no liver fluke I guess you've a dry enough farm. Why did you test the cows? Routine or investigation of some problem?

    The other thread on rumen fluke is worth reading and a vet is the only one that can give a definitive answer.

    Asked my own vet about it last week during test. He said that in most cases rumen fluke is this years fad for the drugs companies and the farming press. He maintained the number of acute clinical cases likely to be seen in the county would be tiny. Plenty of liver fluke around and they are a real problem in his opinion. Rumen fluke being present is not the same thing as an acute infection.


  • #23
    greysides
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    freedominacup wrote: »
    Asked my own vet about it last week during test. He said that in most cases rumen fluke is this years fad for the drugs companies and the farming press. He maintained the number of acute clinical cases likely to be seen in the county would be tiny. Plenty of liver fluke around and they are a real problem in his opinion. Rumen fluke being present is not the same thing as an acute infection.

    His opinion will be influenced by his location and previous years of experience. It is a real problem in certain areas of the country.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • #24
    freedominacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    greysides wrote: »
    His opinion will be influenced by his location and previous years of experience. It is a real problem in certain areas of the country.

    You could be right but he was refering to published research rather than any other source when he was speaking to me. If "research" isn't published it isn't that reliable.


  • #25
    greysides
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    Yup, we all go by research until we've a chance to refine it with our own experience.

    A couple of years ago I would have been saying exactly what he said then.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • #26
    freedominacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    greysides wrote: »
    Yup, we all go by research until we've a chance to refine it with our own experience.

    A couple of years ago I would have been saying exactly what he said then.

    So would you be of the opinion it's a widespread problem on all soil types after this year or would it still be confined to certain types of land?


  • #27
    greysides
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    I would only comment on the area around where I work and am familiar with.

    It has been a hot potato for discussion for the past three years. After some initial scepticism I have seen cases of a disease fitting the published signs that responded to the published treatments. That is as good as proof gets.

    Around here it is definitely a disease of concern in the heavier marine clay that composes the 'Macamore' area. But still not is every farm in that area.

    It has turned up in some of the higher freer-draining, hillside areas too where drains overflowed onto fields leaving permanently wet spots in fields.

    It's hard to sum up and be definite about areas. I would certainly be more mindful of it in the heavier clays and quicker to act if anything caught my eye, but it can't be ruled out in other areas too.

    I do worry that it might eclipse Liver fluke in the general perception of what's important but it still warrants being mindful of.

    You can see it's hard to give you a useful answer, my summary is to treat for worms and Liver fluke for certain but to watch for any indication that a separate RF dose might be needed.... animals not thriving as they would other years, animals from some fields (that flooded) not doing as well as those grazed on other drier areas of the farm, dirty backsides despite dosing etc.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • #28
    manjou
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 383 ✭✭manjou


    There is a maximun dose of zanil that you can give and i think its 105 ml.The vet said its in the small print on leaflet.You give recommended dose up to this of so many ml per 50 kg but once you reach 105 stop no matter how heavy cattle are. Do them second time if you have to.That was adivce i was given by my vet after doing cow last spring after she calved and thought i had killed her when she stopped eating and scoured hell out of her. Reduced rate to 105 and had no problem after that.


  • #29
    leoch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 974 ✭✭✭leoch


    manjou how many weeks did u do them the second time


  • #30
    MOOVAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70 ✭✭MOOVAN


    Hi again to all
    In my original post I was hoping to find a specific miracle dose for Rumen fluke,but there is none
    I've read all your posts and discussed it with my vet this morning.
    Some of my cows were not thriving and I have tested for worms,liverfluke and Rumen fluke so I can decide on the best treatment for the winter/dried-off period.
    I've decided to use the treatment I have been using for the past 3 yrs,which is zanil (105ml at one week of being housed) and dectomax for lice and worms(60day withdrawl,perfect for 8-12wk dried off cows) I dose them again with zanil when they calve (milk withdrawl is 3 days but I'll be holding milk for dry cow antibiotic so(zanil) it does not hold up milk to tank.
    My reluctance to using Zanil was because it was blowing the bums off the cows(with correct dose) because i dried off,dosed and housedalmost straight off grass.
    The differance on the farm this time is my vet says to get silage/straw into the cows that have runny poos and after being housed for the week, on this feed they should have tightened up and I can dose away,so zanil shouldn't blow their bums off . Wish me luck !!


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  • #31
    MOOVAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70 ✭✭MOOVAN


    Other stuff i found out on my rumen fluke quest.
    1.UCD Theo De Waal and co have published rumenflke(paraphistomum) research.
    2.The midlands and parts of the west have had cattle die this year because they were heavily loaded with RF.
    3.Lavafas Diamond does liverfluke,rumenfluke and Some worms. dose is 150ml/cow and is expensive in comparison.
    I would have fairly good draining soil but after the rainy summer we've all had i would think there is very few farms that are safe !! Keep an open mind to RF ,it is not just hype in my opinion.
    Thanks to you all for your posts.


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