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Replacing a Ferroli Tempra Boiler

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Comments

  • #32
    Jazzmaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 96 ✭✭Jazzmaster


    gary71 wrote: »

    I'v been a gasman for a while and the issues I'm faced with now are the same as they were 25 years ago, contaminated water has a aggressive impact on boilers, when components fail how often is the cause correctly identified, o-rings become brittle, pump impellers can expand etc... You blame the manufacture, I blame the fruitloops who can't follow a manual with colour pictures because they have decided they know better and don't understand that by not following MI their actions can lead to needless drama(at times), MI are there to get the best out of the appliance why ignore them:confused:


    Why pick one part of my reply to disagree with without taking the rest into consideration? I just quoted some manufacturers instructions about flushing and cleaning. Power flushing wasn't mentioned but you ignored that because it didn't agree with your point.

    I've said more than once that power flushing has it's place but it's not needed on most systems. Cleanser followed by inhibitor is perfectly adequate for all but heavily sludged systems.


  • #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jazzmaster wrote: »
    Why pick one part of my reply to disagree with without taking the rest into consideration? .

    Because I'm grumpy;)


  • #34
    Jazzmaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 96 ✭✭Jazzmaster


    gary71 wrote: »

    Because I'm grumpy;)

    Good man lol


  • #35
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    Jazzmaster wrote: »


    Why pick one part of my reply to disagree with without taking the rest into consideration? I just quoted some manufacturers instructions about flushing and cleaning. Power flushing wasn't mentioned but you ignored that because it didn't agree with your point.

    I've said more than once that power flushing has it's place but it's not needed on most systems. Cleanser followed by inhibitor is perfectly adequate for all but heavily sludged systems.
    Do you really think draining and refilling a system is flushing?
    What about the pipework that is below the drain point?
    What about chemical residue?
    What about flux residue?
    The list can go on and on!
    Manufacturers say flush the system, how you do so is upto you but it must be successful otherwise the warranty is null and void. It is very easy to determine if a system has being flushed and it is not just looking for a tick in the box.


  • #36
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jazzmaster wrote: »

    I've said more than once that power flushing has it's place but it's not needed on most systems. Cleanser followed by inhibitor is perfectly adequate for all but heavily sludged systems.

    To not power flush a exsisting installation is rolling the dice and hoping over time you have nothing comeback and bite you on the arse:eek:, the comebacks that occur rarely involve the installer as i have found as it's a couple of years down the road but it does cost the homeowner €€€ as they pay for damaged components to be replaced and flush, this isn't very nice of a installer to do this to his customer;).

    I have a 5 year warranty on my boilers and I get to see first hand the impact not flushing has over the years on some systems and me heart is broke having to be the bearer of bad news:mad:.

    If you power flush a exsisting installation as a given which is good working practise you are then taking contamination and all it's drama out of the equation, I don't understand a installer who is aware of the issues that can occur(even rarely) who dosen't power flush to rule contamination out, it's not hard to do, aren't we all in search of that allusive quite life.

    Here's a thing a lot of installers don't realise which is to add inhibitor to a heating system that isn't fully clean can at times lead to contaminated water that is very corrosive to any make of boiler, this is due to the inhibitor reacting to the dirt.


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  • #37
    corkgsxr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    gary71 wrote: »
    To add a inhibitor to a heating system that isn't clean can lead to system water that is aggressive to plastics, dramatically shorting the lifespan of a boiler, the reason expansion vessels, AAV, O-rings, pumps etc.. fail is mainly due to bad working practices by some installers, manufactures require clean system water without any contamination because the link between contaminated water and a shortened lifespan of gas boilers is proven.

    Clean water with inhibitor is perfectly fine. A tiny amount of stuff isn't going to turn a large body of water into a acid
    gary71 wrote: »
    As a manufactures technician I get to see the impact different working practices have on a gas installation, from my experience I would want my house power flushed before a boiler is fitted, it's not a hardship, it reduces the likelihood of contamination issues later on and is classed as good working practice.

    You mention scaremongering which is a first and a bit silly, power flushing is a tool and has a purpose, a power flush is required when contamination in a heating system warrants it and before a boiler is fitted to a older or questionable system, you mention power flushing a system that's only a few years old why? A new boiler should last many years so why flush after a few years unless the system is contaminated.

    Yes I agree, when warranted, or questionable system. Not a system that isn't sludged up, and a properly working system won't sludge up.
    GASMANN wrote: »
    how is the fuel being burnt relative to system contamination ?

    It's not, but a hell of a lot of systems with a back boiler pitch and rust up
    shane0007 wrote: »
    Do you really think draining and refilling a system is flushing?
    What about the pipework that is below the drain point?
    What about chemical residue?
    What about flux residue?
    The list can go on and on!
    Manufacturers say flush the system, how you do so is upto you but it must be successful otherwise the warranty is null and void. It is very easy to determine if a system has being flushed and it is not just looking for a tick in the box.

    If it's not going to move draining and filling and running for a while before draining again it's not going to move.

    In fairness a properly working system will not sludge up. If a system has it has a problem, then powerflush away. But if the water comes out fairly clean there's no need for a powerflush.


  • #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    corkgsxr wrote: »

    In fairness a properly working system will not sludge up. If a system has it has a problem, then powerflush away. But if the water comes out fairly clean there's no need for a powerflush.

    your confidence doesn't match the reality of the installs I see, not flushing a system holds a risk, why take the risk:confused: contaminated water is a very big problem, much bigger than it should be, this is because of the installer and nobody else, good working practise is there for a reason.

    I'm telling you as someone who works at the other end of installs to flush and give me and your customers a quite life, if you chose to ignore my advise that's fine, but what does it hurt to power flush if only to shut me up, not flushing is only helpful to the installer and does nothing for the customer except save them a few bob which in fairness is handy to have if it goes pear shaped down the road.


  • #39
    anuprising
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 373 ✭✭anuprising


    thermal imaging camera will check the system for sludge build up and tell you if a powerflush is required .can also show the customers a before and after if a powerflush is required . takes all the guesswork out of it .


  • #40
    corkgsxr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    anuprising wrote: »
    thermal imaging camera will check the system for sludge build up and tell you if a powerflush is required .can also show the customers a before and after if a powerflush is required . takes all the guesswork out of it .

    Grand job ya but I wouldn't be buying one just for that. Catch the rad you can clearly feel the cold bottom.

    Changing the boiler you'll be draining anyway. Condition of the water will tell ya how a system is working


  • #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I use a water test kit this allows me to precisely measure contamination levels in a heating systems, a thermal imaging camera isn't designed to measure contamination levels in a heating system.

    A lot of installers powerflush as a given during boiler exchanges without any drama and it's doesn't seem a hardship for them, knowing the large problem contamination causes with heating systems in general why would a installer not want to power flush:confused: explain it to me please, what are the benefits of not doing it?

    If those against flushing are right than the worst that will happen is time is wasted but if I'm right then not flushing may cause expensive faults down the road, which are rarely linked to the lack of a flush that caused it.

    Now let's talk about auto fillers:D


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  • #42
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    corkgsxr wrote: »
    If it's not going to move draining and filling and running for a while before draining again it's not going to move.

    You obviously do not understand how a powerflush works or it's capabilities when carried out properly. The very varied choice and functionality of the chosen chemicals has a significant effect on the success of the flush. It is equally important to know what is in the system to know how to remove it, e.g. F3, F5' DS40, etc.


  • #43
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    anuprising wrote: »
    thermal imaging camera will check the system for sludge build up and tell you if a powerflush is required .can also show the customers a before and after if a powerflush is required . takes all the guesswork out of it .

    A simple and inexpensive infrared thermometer can be similarly as effective. Pointing it at the various locations across the radiator can highlight the varying temperature differentials.


  • #44
    corkgsxr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    shane0007 wrote: »
    You obviously do not understand how a powerflush works or it's capabilities when carried out properly. The very varied choice and functionality of the chosen chemicals has a significant effect on the success of the flush. It is equally important to know what is in the system to know how to remove it, e.g. F3, F5' DS40, etc.

    Yes I do. Great job for heavily sludged systems. No need for it in most


  • #45
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    corkgsxr wrote: »
    Yes I do. Great job for heavily sludged systems. No need for it in most

    As I previously said, you're understandings are limited and you are wasting everyone's time in repeating themselves to you.


  • #46
    corkgsxr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    shane0007 wrote: »
    As I previously said, you're understandings are limited and you are wasting everyone's time in repeating themselves to you.

    You have a flushing machine, your trying to justify it. More time charge more


  • #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sorry OP for my part in ruining your tread:o, I'll have to work harder at not getting caught up in this silliness, there's no fun in it.


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