Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

MLC61 · 07-11-2012 9:56pm

DeDoc wrote: »

There are some major differences:

- In the case of Staples, Geoghegan etc they all played for Connacht (and London Irish when the both parts of that club name meant something)
- With the likes of Maggs etc - they had declared and were being watched regularly in what was the main playing ground for our internationals at the time (i.e. in the English league).

I think peoples main issue with Bent is that it was a piece of speculative business by Leinster, with the only person who has (maybe) seen him play live being Greg Feek. None of the Irish set-up have ever even seen the guy play and suddenly he is in a match day squad. I think that sucks, and it sends out a bad message - what is a guy like Loughney supposed to think?
I hope Bent has a blinder and turns out to be a great player with a long Irish career, but until he's actually played a game or two I'd prefer Tony Buckley

Rob Henderson is another example and he was during the professional era. Again a big crowd favourite.
It's not just the reaction to Michael Bent of which we should be careful. Include also the continued reference to Tom Court as an Australian prop.

Quint2010 · 07-11-2012 9:57pm

brinty wrote: »

So no POC now...i bet the non munsters are delighted...one less munster player in the team..
was just doing a quick look on the first choice team at the minute and all players considered...i.e no injuries or fitness etcetc
If people had to pick what would be the break down off the team????? i had 8 leinster 4 munster 3 Ulster..would that be fair???? Or would people still take issue with 4 munster players being involved??

Zebo,Earls, Murray, Ryan, DOC and POM will all start.

brinty · 07-11-2012 10:00pm

Quint2010 wrote: »

Zebo,Earls, Murray, Ryan, DOC and POM will all start.

Quint i said based on no injuries or fitness concerns...i.e. Poc Bod being available..sorry if i caused confusion there

Tox56 · 07-11-2012 10:01pm

brinty wrote: »

Heroditas...thats an honest and genuine question

I want whats best for the Irish jersey

Everyone seems to want to Munster bash..and its ok for them to say the like of Murray is sh1t and doesn't deserve what he's had and Kidney is a joke...

Just trying to be a bit balanced...

Well can I just say you're doing a real bang up job, keep it up

brinty wrote: »

So no POC now...i bet the non munsters are delighted...one less munster player in the team..

Lelantos · 07-11-2012 10:02pm

Heroditas wrote: »

You need some new material.

In fairness there has been a lot of Munster bashing the last hour or so, its getting boring.

jamiedav2011 · 07-11-2012 10:03pm

brinty wrote: »

So no POC now...i bet the non munsters are delighted...one less munster player in the team..
was just doing a quick look on the first choice team at the minute and all players considered...i.e no injuries or fitness etcetc
If people had to pick what would be the break down off the team????? i had 8 leinster 4 munster 3 Ulster..would that be fair???? Or would people still take issue with 4 munster players being involved??

Seriously what the hell are you even arguing?!

Scioch · 07-11-2012 10:04pm

brinty wrote: »

Quint i said based on no injuries or fitness concerns...i.e. Poc Bod being available..sorry if i caused confusion there

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. SOB
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Fitz
12. Darcy
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

No injuries that would be my starting 15 against the Boks on Saturday.

jamiedav2011 · 07-11-2012 10:05pm

As an aside, how people can defend Kidney at this stage, after four years of mediocrity, a shocking track record, and some crazy selections, really is beyond me.

We all want what's right for Irish rugby, and we all want to be winning against the big teams, and Kidney has constantly shown he can't deliver this at anywhere near a consistent level.

Call it Munster bashing, call it a grudge, whatever. This man and his archaic tactics and strange at best selections shouldn't still be in charge of our national team, no matter what Thornley at al would have you believe.

Clareman · 07-11-2012 10:05pm

Folks, this thread is getting quite tiresome and disappointing, personally I think it's terrible that people are getting hung up on Club stuff while discussing Ireland, can we please get back to discussing Ireland rather that club bias.

brinty · 07-11-2012 10:08pm

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

As an aside, how people can defend Kidney at this stage, after four years of mediocrity, a shocking track record, and some crazy selections, really is beyond me.

We all want what's right for Irish rugby, and we all want to be winning against the big teams, and Kidney has constantly shown he can't deliver this at anywhere near a consistent level.

Call it Munster bashing, call it a grudge, whatever. This man and his archaic tactics and strange at best selections shouldn't still be in charge of our national team, no matter what Thornley at al would have you believe.

Jamie, can i ask who you'd have in charge? If it was me I'd go with Mike Ruddock...knows whats coming through with underage teams etc, no current history with provincial set up etc??

Tox56 · 07-11-2012 10:08pm

Scioch wrote: »

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. SOB
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Fitz
12. Darcy
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

No injuries that would be my starting 15 against the Boks on Saturday.

And it would be a really good team too, you could argue 5 of those there are in the top 5 in their position in the world (SOB, Healy, Sexton, Best and Kearney).

And that's without mentioning BOD, POC, Ferris, Bowe and Heaslip.

With some of our results recently it's easy to forget that we do have some real quality players, and I'm excited about a possible post-Kidney era already, hopefully by which time we'll be in much better shape injury wise.

Mr.Opti · 07-11-2012 10:10pm

Scioch wrote: »

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. SOB
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Fitz
12. Darcy
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

No injuries that would be my starting 15 against the Boks on Saturday.

Fitz

?!?

Very overrated and hasn't played well since practically the Lions tour!

Trimble, Gilroy, Earls, Zebo are better

Scioch · 07-11-2012 10:13pm

Mr.Opti wrote: »

Fitz ?!?

Very overrated and hasn't played well since practically the Lions tour!

Trimble, Gilroy, Earls, Zebo are better

He was well on the way to getting back to his best after he was dropped from the WC squad. If he was fit I'd have him ahead of Earls. Zebo and Gilroy are not on that level yet.

Dermo73 · 07-11-2012 10:14pm

Have to agree with that. Fitz had a good couple of seasons and is a class act but he'll have to prove it all over again to merit a spot in any Ireland squad. There's a lot of talented wingers about now

brinty · 07-11-2012 10:16pm

Tox56 wrote: »

And it would be a really good team too, you could argue 5 of those there are in the top 5 in their position in the world (SOB, Healy, Sexton, Best and Kearney).

And that's without mentioning BOD, POC, Ferris, Bowe and Heaslip.

With some of our results recently it's easy to forget that we do have some real quality players, and I'm excited about a possible post-Kidney era already, hopefully by which time we'll be in much better shape injury wise.

God and i thought i looked through red tinted glasses...

Tox, come on be a little realistic....
SOB is not not the best seven not even close...he's behind McCaw and Warburton
Healy seriously....
Sexton is way behind Carter
Best and Kearney are toss ups but if not the best then very close seconds

Scioch · 07-11-2012 10:19pm

brinty wrote: »

God and i thought i looked through red tinted glasses...

Tox, come on be a little realistic....
SOB is not not the best seven not even close...he's behind McCaw and Warburton
Healy seriously....
Sexton is way behind Carter
Best and Kearney are toss ups but if not the best then very close seconds

Top 5 he said. You actually made his point for him. Very few ahead of those players at international level the fact your throwing out names like Dan Carter and Ritchie McCaw as being ahead of them compounds the point.

Tox56 · 07-11-2012 10:19pm

brinty wrote: »

God and i thought i looked through red tinted glasses...

Tox, come on be a little realistic....
SOB is not not the best seven not even close...he's behind McCaw and Warburton
Healy seriously....
Sexton is way behind Carter
Best and Kearney are toss ups but if not the best then very close seconds

I meant they're in the top 5 in their position, not that they're the best.

Healy would have a very good argument though.

Mr.Opti · 07-11-2012 10:19pm

Scioch wrote: »

He was well on the way to getting back to his best after he was dropped from the WC squad. If he was fit I'd have him ahead of Earls. Zebo and Gilroy are not on that level yet.

He is vastly over rated. Seems to make stupid decisions, liable to get yellows with his tackle (shoulder charges) - seems to make the wrong decisions more often then a top player should!!

I think that Earls, Trimble & Zebo are better and there would be much between Gilroy who is better under a high ball and at countering

Scioch · 07-11-2012 10:24pm

Mr.Opti wrote: »

He is vastly over rated. Seems to make stupid decisions, liable to get yellows with his tackle (shoulder charges) - seems to make the wrong decisions more often then a top player should!!

I think that Earls, Trimble & Zebo are better and there would be much between Gilroy who is better under a high ball and at countering

I think your basing that on the period his was off form when he was dropped. When on form (which he was getting back) he is better than Earls and Trimble imo. Zebo doesnt come into it.

brinty · 07-11-2012 10:24pm

Tox56 wrote: »

I meant they're in the top 5 in their position, not that they're the best.

Healy would have a very good argument though.

My apologies Tox..i misread your post...

I think you would be right in that assesment so..we have a lot of players like that but not enough in the best/second best bracket...bar maybe Kearney and Best

Mr.Opti · 07-11-2012 10:31pm

Scioch wrote: »

I think your basing that on the period his was off form when he was dropped. When on form (which he was getting back) he is better than Earls and Trimble imo. Zebo doesnt come into it.

I completely disagree!! Earls is a far far better player, Trimble is better and Zebo is at least as good if not better.

Scioch · 07-11-2012 10:36pm

Mr.Opti wrote: »

I completely disagree!! Earls is a far far better player, Trimble is better and Zebo is at least as good if not better.

I'd have Fitz, Trimble, Earls ( all three pretty close I think but Fitz being more of an all rounder than the other two) *drop down from international standard* Gilroy and Zebo (more or less equal). All a matter of opinion I suppose.

Just out of curiosity when you said Fitz was liable to get yellow cards for shoulder charges. How many times was he binned for shoulder charges ? I dont recall it ever being a trait of his.

Mr.Opti · 07-11-2012 10:38pm

Scioch wrote: »

Just out of curiosity when you said Fitz was liable to get yellow cards for shoulder charges. How many times was he binned for shoulder charges ? I dont recall it ever being a trait of his.

Two i think. TBH he could/should have got a few more for some of his tackles.

jamiedav2011 · 07-11-2012 10:40pm

Mr.Opti wrote: »

Two i think. TBH he could/should have got a few more for some of his tackles.

What? When?!

07-11-2012 10:47pm

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

What? When?!

Can't remember a single yellow card for any of the teams he's ever played for tbh...

Tox56 · 07-11-2012 10:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Can't remember a single yellow card for any of the teams he's ever played for tbh...

Never got one for Leinster according to his profile on the site

Podge_irl · 07-11-2012 10:52pm

Fitz has never been yellow carded. He has close to the best tackling technique of any Irish player.

jamiedav2011 · 07-11-2012 10:56pm

Ah Mr Opti is probably thinking of Alesana Tuilagi.

An easy mistake to make I'll give him that.

Fireball07 · 07-11-2012 10:56pm

Fwiw, I'd pick Earls on the wing ahead of Fitz as of now. Although Earls hasn't played regularly on the wing for a while...then again, neither has Fitz.

Don't know how you could question his defence though, probably one of the most secure players we have, and he hits very hard aswell. Strike rate probably isn't as good as it could be, but he makes a lot of line breaks and offloads superbly. Really think he could be a brilliant 12, pity he doesn't seem to like it.

Tox56 · 07-11-2012 11:00pm

Fireball07 wrote: »

Fwiw, I'd pick Earls on the wing ahead of Fitz as of now. Although Earls hasn't played regularly on the wing for a while...then again, neither has Fitz.

Don't know how you could question his defence though, probably one of the most secure players we have, and he hits very hard aswell. Strike rate probably isn't as good as it could be, but he makes a lot of line breaks and offloads superbly. Really think he could be a brilliant 12, pity he doesn't seem to like it.

Because he has been injured!

In a hypothetical magical parallel universe where Fitz hadn't been injured for the last few months (which is what we are dealing with at the moment unfortunately), I think he would be starting for Ireland. He was in cracking form last year and had he continued that form this year he would have been hard to leave out.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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