How Rational Are You?

Stroll · 07-11-2012 04:53AM

Anger is a wind which blows out the lamp of my mind.

Chuck Stone · 07-11-2012 04:56AM

Sorcha16 wrote: »

Surely, a rational person would realise no harm would come of it and could do so if asked, so why not?

Yes but it may not be the notion that harm will come to his loved one so much as doing it would be disturbing emotionally.

And don't call me Shirley.

caste_in_exile · 07-11-2012 04:57AM

Where the rationale in even convening to do something like that

I'll do it I my own time, thanks in a genuine moment of pure unbridled irrationalititty

Davidius · 07-11-2012 04:59AM

Did you know that the number of rational numbers is in a sense smaller than the number of irrational numbers? That is the cardinality of the irrational numbers is a greater order of infinity than the cardinality of the rational numbers. However both sets are dense in R, this means that given any real number x you can find a rational number within any positive distance of x, and similarly an irrational number. Also worthy of note is that a somewhat 'natural' measure of these subsets of the real numbers shows that the rationals are measure 0 in any given subinterval of the reals.

Clearly what this means is that reality is made up both the rational and irrational but that the irrational composes an infinitely greater part of reality. However we also find that the rational and irrational border each other. Limiting yourself only to rationality will close your mind to the larger reality and ghosts are real. If this paragraph sounds sensible to you then congratulations on being irrational and crazy.

Stroll · 07-11-2012 05:02AM

Davidius wrote: »

Did you know that the number of rational numbers is in a sense smaller than the number of irrational numbers? That is the cardinality of the irrational numbers is a greater order of infinity than the cardinality of the rational numbers. However both sets are dense in R, this means that given any real number x you can find a rational number within any positive distance of x, and similarly an irrational number. Also worthy of note is that a somewhat 'natural' measure of these subsets of the real numbers shows that the rationals are measure 0 in any given subinterval of the reals.

Clearly what this means is that reality is made up both the rational and irrational but that the irrational composes an infinitely greater part of reality. However we also find that the rational and irrational border each other. Limiting yourself only to rationality will close your mind to the larger reality and ghosts are real. If this paragraph sounds sensible to you then congratulations on being irrational and crazy.

Yeah...

07-11-2012 04:42PM

I'd do it.. Why not.

biko · 07-11-2012 05:07PM

I'd probably do it because I'm an emo kid

My life is spiraling downward
I couldn't get enough money to go to the Blood Red Romance and Suffocate Me Dry concert
It sucks cause they play some of my favorite songs like "Stab my heart because I love you" and "Rip apart my soul" and of course "Stabby rip stab stab"

UCDVet · 07-11-2012 05:08PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I saw an interesting experiment where members of a Rational and Skeptics association were in a room and asked about how rational they felt they were.
They all completely dismissed sentimentality,superstition,karma etc etc.

Then they presented them with a photograph of a relative or friend and asked them to stab it.

None of the participants were willing to stab the photo even though rationally they knew that it was just ink and paper and no one would be harmed.

If I was to suggest that something bad would happen to anybody who thanked this post?

Would you thank it?
Would you ignore it?

Its easy to ignore chain letters because you just ignore them. But if you had to actually opt in to act rationally, like the people with the photograph could you do it?

(Or would you thank the first comment as alternative?)

I consider myself fairly rational.

I know that saying 'FU#* YOU' wouldn't hurt you in any way. But I also know that I'm part of a society and culture that *isn't* perfectly rational. I also know that even rational people are irrational at times, particularly when emotions are involved.

Stabbing a picture of someone would be viewed as incredibly offensive to many people; even if it does not directly harm them.

I would decline stabbing a picture of a family member, not because it would physically hurt them, but because it's out of place in our society. For the same reason I can say that, rationally, there is absolutely nothing with human sexuality, but I'll still refrain from having sex with my wife in public.

As members of society it *is* often rational to conform to social norms.

rubadub · 07-11-2012 05:12PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Then they presented them with a photograph of a relative or friend and asked them to stab it.

None of the participants were willing to stab the photo even though rationally they knew that it was just ink and paper and no one would be harmed.

Any links to give further info? did they give reasons they would not do it. I would not take an unnecessary risk for no reason, i.e. handling a knife or whatever it is, you say nobody would be harmed, I could be harmed if the knife broke or slipped.

Where did they get the photos too? smells fishy TBH.

philologos · 07-11-2012 05:12PM

OP: have you ever thought that people wouldn't stab a picture because it seems really silly? Surely doing things without justification is irrational?

UCDVet · 07-11-2012 05:17PM

philologos wrote: »

OP: have you ever thought that people wouldn't stab a picture because it seems really silly? Surely doing things without justification is irrational?

Presumably they'd have them stab pictures of strangers as a baseline.

Gbear · 07-11-2012 05:23PM

philologos wrote: »

OP: have you ever thought that people wouldn't stab a picture because it seems really silly? Surely doing things without justification is irrational?

It's more arational really. Irrational would be going around randomly stabbing pictures. There is no sense in stabbing a picture but unless it was the only copy of it there's nothing irrational about doing it either.

Jaysus. I spent far too much time coming up with a reply in a thread about stabbing pictures.:o

summerskin · 07-11-2012 05:26PM

None of us are rational. Read "thinking, fast and slow" by Daniel kahnemann for proof.

philologos · 07-11-2012 05:27PM

Stabbing a picture without justification is silly. Anything without a good reason for doing it is by definition irrational as far as I can tell.

Gbear · 07-11-2012 05:53PM

philologos wrote: »

Stabbing a picture without justification is silly. Anything without a good reason for doing it is by definition irrational as far as I can tell.

I don't think it's that simple.

You could just as easily argue that "Anything without a good reason for not doing it is rational". There's no good reason to not stab a picture. But saying that stabbing a picture is a rational thing doesn't really make any sense.

I don't think picture stabbing is even on the irrational/rational spectrum unless there's another factor - it's someone else's picture, it's the only copy of that picture you have, stabbing it is dangerous and you might cut yourself, etc..

philologos · 07-11-2012 06:01PM

All behaviour and thought falls on the rationality spectrum. If it didn't people would be fantastically selective about what they believe to be irrational. If rationality is objective and not subjective then it is what it is irrespective of opinion.

jester77 · 07-11-2012 06:05PM

I would consider myself rational, but there are times when you just have to leave rational outside the door for sake of peace of mind, especially when it comes to wives, in-laws and parents.

Ficheall · 07-11-2012 06:45PM

Davidius wrote: »

However we also find that the rational and irrational border each other.

The probability of an irrational number being bordered by a rational number is surely zero, no?

And how much are we being offered to stab this picture?

Pherekydes · 07-11-2012 06:49PM

Ficheall wrote: »

The probability of an irrational number being bordered by a rational number is surely zero, no?

That would mean that only irrational numbers could border irrational numbers. Where would the rational numbers go?

Ficheall · 07-11-2012 06:52PM

Pherekydes wrote: »

That would mean that only irrational numbers could border irrational numbers. Where would the rational numbers go?

They go between two irrationals, aye.
The probability of an irrational bordering a rational is effectively zero though.
Probability at the infinite level is a dick.

Dangerous Man · 07-11-2012 06:54PM

I'm rational.

--Kaiser-- · 07-11-2012 07:14PM

Senna wrote: »

But is it rational to stab a piece of paper just because some stranger asks you to?

Nail. Head.

SuperInfinity · 07-11-2012 08:02PM

I wouldn't "stab" them because of the meaning of it. It wouldn't feel right. You have to pay attention to what you feel is right. Anyone who thinks they have total control over their feelings/psychology/biology is a fool.

And something I admire about conservatives is that at least they're generally honest and give their true feelings about things, they're not going by some vague ideology that is often arbitrary.

People need to stop pretending/thinking they know it all and use their natural instincts and feelings more. The so-called "rational" thought of society is all the time creating absurd situations or consequences from following the same logic and contradicting itself, the only way to live in a happy and sustainable way is to live as we're evolved.

Madam_X · 07-11-2012 09:11PM

I wouldn't stab the picture because of what that would symbolise to me, not because of thinking it could cause harm to the person. It's not like that's the only reason not to stab it.

Davidius · 07-11-2012 09:32PM

Ficheall wrote: »

The probability of an irrational number being bordered by a rational number is surely zero, no?

'bordered' is a pretty meaningless concept here anyway, especially when talking about the relative placement of two real numbers. It's just supposed to be spoof talk based on a rational being a limit point of the irrationals. Not sure what probability would have to do with it.

SafeSurfer · 07-11-2012 10:31PM

rubadub wrote: »

Any links to give further info? did they give reasons they would not do it. I would not take an unnecessary risk for no reason, i.e. handling a knife or whatever it is, you say nobody would be harmed, I could be harmed if the knife broke or slipped.

Where did they get the photos too? smells fishy TBH.

I cant find a link to the video. I am pretty sure it was a Richard Dawkin's documentary called "The Enemies of Reason".

UCDVet wrote: »

I consider myself fairly rational.

I know that saying 'FU#* YOU' wouldn't hurt you in any way. But I also know that I'm part of a society and culture that *isn't* perfectly rational. I also know that even rational people are irrational at times, particularly when emotions are involved.

Stabbing a picture of someone would be viewed as incredibly offensive to many people; even if it does not directly harm them.

I would decline stabbing a picture of a family member, not because it would physically hurt them, but because it's out of place in our society. For the same reason I can say that, rationally, there is absolutely nothing with human sexuality, but I'll still refrain from having sex with my wife in public.

As members of society it *is* often rational to conform to social norms.

I understand what you say about the offence that stabbing a picture would cause and how, like having sex in public it is out of place in our society and goes against social norms.

However unlike doing something that could be seen as offensive in society, that is in public, one could choose to stab the photographs alone, in private without ever telling anyone about it, but it would still be a very difficult to bring yourself to do.

07-11-2012 10:36PM

flutterflye wrote: »

Yeah, it really doesn't go into the same bracket for me either.

You have religion, superstition, karma, homeopathy, chain mail and so on - they are all the same silly nonsense.

But then you have stabbing a photo of a loved one.
You aren't thinking "oh I'm not going to stab that picture because something bad will happen", it's more just as someone already said, that you're thinking of that person while doing the stabbing, and it just doesn't feel right.
I'm sure if I had to do it, I would, but it would feel uncomfortable.

I'm so glad that you didn't include 'Astrology' in your list of silly nonsenses.
I'm a Gemini myself, half-man/half-biscuit, long before that pop-group from The Wirral ever took to the stage.
My man side is logical, strong, rational and logical, and as you may have guessed, ultra-logical.
Whereas my biscuit side, is like, totally craaaazy, mad, irrational and chocolaty.
My man side would definitely stab the photo, it being the logical thing to do, but my biscuit side would take out a lighter, set it aflame and stick it down the gusset of my trousers.
By the way, I always feel uncomfortable, whether stabbing photographs or just taking the air.
Good luck to you!

The One Who Knocks · 07-11-2012 10:38PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I saw an interesting experiment where members of a Rational and Skeptics association were in a room and asked about how rational they felt they were.

BAHAHAHAAA!!!! Really?

"Let's get rational, Rational!
I wanna get Rational!"

flutterflye · 07-11-2012 11:09PM

9959 wrote: »

I'm so glad that you didn't include 'Astrology' in your list of silly nonsenses.
I'm a Gemini myself, half-man/half-biscuit, long before that pop-group from The Wirral ever took to the stage.
My man side is logical, strong, rational and logical, and as you may have guessed, ultra-logical.
Whereas my biscuit side, is like, totally craaaazy, mad, irrational and chocolaty.
My man side would definitely stab the photo, it being the logical thing to do, but my biscuit side would take out a lighter, set it aflame and stick it down the gusset of my trousers.
By the way, I always feel uncomfortable, whether stabbing photographs or just taking the air.
Good luck to you!

I like biscuits, especially chocolate ones.

Gbear · 07-11-2012 11:16PM

philologos wrote: »

All behaviour and thought falls on the rationality spectrum. If it didn't people would be fantastically selective about what they believe to be irrational. If rationality is objective and not subjective then it is what it is irrespective of opinion.

If there is no rational basis by which to make the decision than it doesn't fall within the realms of rationality.

Take me for example. I would have no qualms about stabbing a picture of anyone. It's a picture. It doesn't matter (unless it has material value - like it's the only version of said picture).

I wouldn't care if it was of my parents and they were watching me do it. They don't care either.
There might be no particular reason to stab a picture but it takes a minimum amount of effort and it's no skin off my nose so if some tester asked me to do it I would oblige them. There is literally nothing irrational about that.

It is rational to "respect" the picture if in doing so you gain brownie points (or rather, don't lose them) with people who are irrationally swayed by the photo . But if they don't care then there is very little in the way of cost associated with the action other than a minute amount of effort and so rationality doesn't really apply.

It'd be like if someone asked me to stick my tongue out.
"Well.. ok.. that's slightly unusual but here you go".

How Rational Are You?

Comments