Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13 MOD POST #232

tayto lover · 04-11-2012 08:42PM

Galvasean wrote: »

I'm not so sure. I mean obviously RvP is a player who would improve any team, but we had him at this point last still season and still shipped 8 and 4 against United and Blackburn respectively. As a whole the team are getting more goals between them now where last season we were way too reliant on RvP to score. If RvP had a bad day at the office we were pretty much screwed.
Walcott was our 2nd highest goalscorer in all competitions last season with 11. He's got 7 already this season. After that it's Benayoun, Arteta and Vermaelen with 6 a piece. This season though we are spreading the goals around the squad better. For example, Chamakh has doubled his tally (2 as opposed to 1), while Gervinho has beaten his tally for last year (4/5).

We were actually lucky we weren't on the receiving side of a similar scoreline yesterday. They missed a penalty and another sitter or two.
What disappointed many is the lack of fight and pride in the jersey. There seemed to be more pride in their jerseys with the behaviour of Santos.

We have a few hard games coming up against our rivals for the Top 4 position and these will determine our season. We need to win these games because there is only fourth place to play for now unfortunately. We could do with some personnel like Diaby and Gibbs returning asap.
Someone suggested starting Arshavin and Walcott on the wings and this might be a good idea. It can't be any worse than yesterday.

Galvasean · 04-11-2012 08:46PM

Luckily for us spurs are on a bit of a form dip too so we should have agood chance against them next weekend.

What i don't get is how we were able to play so well before the international break, only to completely fall asunder afterwards.

ugsparky · 04-11-2012 08:52PM

They were all replaced. Fabregas/Arteta, Nasri/Gervinho, Clichy/Santos, RVP/Podolski. Song wasn't replaced with a new signing because we had Diaby and Wilshire coming back from long term injuries.

Are you seriously comparing these players as replacements ?

We've spent nearly 100 million pounds in the last 18 months so Wenger certainly is investing these days. Just have to hope that this trend continues in the near future.

But the point is we have made big money on players we bought for small fees - but we didn't re-invest this money into the team, only a small fraction of it.

We're not looking at mid-table. We're 6th, and 2 points off a usual Champions League spot, with a massive 28 games to go yet.

Very doubtful that this will be our last Champions League season because we still have the 4th best squad in the league. Spurs, Liverpool, Everton and Newcastle may give us a push 'till the end, but no way would I swap our squad for any of theirs.

I'm just calling it as I see it - and if this form continues we will struggle to make a Champions lge place - especially when you consider RvP's goals got us to third last year

Despite not winning anything for 7 years, we do still always pull in more than 50,000, which is still more than Chelsea and Man City can fit into their stadiums.

Didn't look near to capacity against Schalke

Just my honest opinions - I'm a Gooner first and always - but I fear we will have some lean years ahead. So long as we compete and show bottle it doesn't bother me if we don't win trophies - they are just the bonus's that we aspire to. Fourth place is not an achievement - it's a compromise.

Finally, are you the Charisteas who used to post on garythegooner ? I'm the PAOK supporter - if it is you, you'll know that yourself, TJ, Darryl and myself were the most supportive posters of Arsene whilst others were talking all kinds of conspiracy/rubbish and anti Wenger stuff. I think Wengers hands are tied ... I wouldn't be surprised to see him leave.

KINGVictor · 04-11-2012 09:02PM

AdamD wrote: »

The tunnel before the game pissed me off, everyone was hugging RVP and smiling etc. even Podolski who didn't even play with him. Then RVP went up to Wilshere who just gave him daggers. ****ing love Wilshere.

It was horrible to watch to be frank and I sincerely hope it is not a reflection of the team spirit at the moment. It seems as if they were all ready to trade places with him- sort of like he is in a better place than them.

I just watched the G. Neville clip posted above, while his attitude seemed a bit immature but that is the reality and nature of the game- while they can still maintain their friendship but in a match situation it is strictly business. It is possible that Arsene might have instructed them to be friendly and civil but I think they took it literarily and some like Santos took it too far.

I know that Walcott is not particularly loved but he is an asset and he has displayed his love for the club, if he goes in January or even in the summer of next year, Arsenal will have a big problem holding on to Wilshire, Chamberlain etc in the future. I will personally be shocked if City, United and Chelsea are not planning moves for Wilshire at this stage.

Frisbee · 04-11-2012 10:19PM

I thought this was pretty funny and made me forget how shít we are for a minute, the Kroenke and Podolski one's are great

MaxPower89 · 04-11-2012 10:22PM

I think Arshavin warrants a start in the league at this stage, at least he can create a chance and put the ball in behind the defense, something I can't remember us doing at Old Trafford at all, look how Bale waltzed past Rio for a goal a few weeks ago, we never even took him on. Podolski was been poor enough lately and only seems effective close to goal, and doesn't track back any more than the Russian.

Missing Gibbs is just a disaster at the moment, I wish we had held on to Traore, at least he has pace and more footballing nous then Santos. At this stage either move Vermaelen to LB and play Kos in the middle or move Sagna to LB and drop Vermaelen for Kos.

Walcott has to start, as obvious as his failings are at least he is a threat, when he runs down the wing aimlessly and wins a throw at least we are up the field a bit and can cause something dangerous. We struggled just to get out of our half the last day and Ramsey is just too one paced for the wing.

04-11-2012 11:14PM

Frisbee wrote: »

I thought this was pretty funny and made me forget how shít we are for a minute, the Kroenke and Podolski one's are great

I don't get the Podolski one. Or the "dench"

Pierce_1991 · 04-11-2012 11:58PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't get the Podolski one. Or the "dench"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2068043/DENCH--Emmanuel-Frimpong-tribute-Dame-Judi.html

enfant terrible · 05-11-2012 06:09AM

I think we need to move Cazorla as far upfield as possible to do damage, as we have no one else who can make something happen at the moment.

I would like to see him in the Bergkamp role behind Walcott with Wilshere/Arteta supplying from midfield and Ox and Podolski on the wings.

What do yee think could a return to 4-4-1-1 work?

Shez

Sanga Mert Kos Gibbs

Ox Arteta Wilshere Podolski

Cazorla

Walcott

MaxPower89 · 05-11-2012 08:32AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't get the Podolski one. Or the "dench"

Think the Podolski one is just because Adidas is a German brand...

jonneymendoza · 05-11-2012 09:49AM

Well done arsenal for playing crap. we diddnt trun up.

very gutted.

i reckon we could have beaten united as IMO united wasnt anything special and even RVP said it

jonneymendoza · 05-11-2012 10:06AM

ugsparky wrote: »

Any team that loses Cesc, Nasri, Clichy, RvP and Song would suffer big time - especially when those players are not replaced. The fact that we received huge profits from the sale of Anelka, Overmars/Petit, Toure, Adebayor, Hleb plus all the players mentioned - but have only re-invested a small part of the profits back into the team, explains why we are now looking at a mid table position. As Arsene said "if we sell our best players then we are not a big club". Well now we are not a big club. At best we are a cup team - an FA Cup or a Carling/Milk/Plastic cup team. This will be our last Champions lge for a few years to come. Vieira was right when he said that there's "no point in having a big stadium when it's only half full", and after this season (especially with the pricing of tickets) we will be seeing an Emirates stadium with 40 - 50 thousand in it. I'm afraid this is the reality of things now at Arsenal.

I'm not a fair weather supporter whinging now because things are looking bad. I'm a Gooner since 1969 - watching them being beaten by Swindon on a black and white TV. Been to Highbury and the Emirates many times - in fact I'm going over to the Spurs game in a couple of weeks - but I'm saddened by what our Board of Directors and those Yank tw*ts are doing to our club. I have friends who have connections within the club and they've told me some very unsettling things. Mr. Kroenke and Mr Gazidas see us as a "product/franchise". There is a hard sell ethic being cultivated at AFC - starting the moment the fans enter the stadium. It has been suggested that we have staff wandering through the stadium selling hotdogs/fast food/snacks/drinks as they do at American Stadia. Aggresive ticket pricing is/now also being considered. I have this on good authority from a friend who knows a person who worked within AFC. She has since left as she didn't agree with the direction the club was being lead. (Check who has left the staff in the last two years ...). We are being "Americanised" ... Victoria Concordia Crescit indeed.

As I said I'm going over to the Spurs game to see "my" team. I'm buying no merchandise or programme. I'll talk with the rest of the Gooners in the Highbury Barn before and after the game ... I have a feeling I'll be listening to a lot of grief.

Half full stadium? I dont like it when people who do not invest there time and money to go see there team play slag the team and its lack of supporters when they have no clue whatsoever.

i have been to a few games this season already. i went to a QPR game and it was almost full house, easily 55k inside.

last season i went to a few carling cup games and again over 50k supports inside the stadium.

Charisteas · 05-11-2012 12:08PM

Charisteas wrote:

They were all replaced. Fabregas/Arteta, Nasri/Gervinho, Clichy/Santos, RVP/Podolski. Song wasn't replaced with a new signing because we had Diaby and Wilshire coming back from long term injuries.

ugsparky wrote: »

Are you seriously comparing these players as replacements ?

Gervinho was coming off the back of helping Lille to win the French league and had two great seasons with them. We went for Hazard, but when Hazard didn't want to leave Lille, we signed Gervinho instead and looked like a decent signing.

Clichy was replaced with Brazil's first choice left-back, I don't think anyone was complaining at the time.

Cesc is irreplaceable but Arteta had demonstrated he was a consistently good centre midfielder in a weak Everton team and with nearly 200 Premier League games experience when we signed him, and got him for a good price too.

Podolski, like RVP, is one of the top forwards in Europe. Thought it was a quality signing personally. You don't get 100 caps for Germany without having class.

More to the point is that they are quality experienced replacements and more importantly has demonstrated a change in policy of the usual replacing a star team member with a teenager.

ugsparky wrote: »

Finally, are you the Charisteas who used to post on garythegooner ?

I do like PAOK too but nope that's not me

Charisteas · 05-11-2012 12:13PM

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2011-2012/table/2011-10-31

For comparison.

EDIT: In terms of the corresponding fixtures last season it's not quite so rosy.
|P|W|D|L|F|A|GD|P
Last Season|10|6|2|2|20|14|+6|20
This Season|10|4|3|3|15|8|+7|15

It's so easy to twist these things though.

For example, this season we have played the top 3 already. This time last year, we hadn't played Man City yet, who as we know would go on to win the league.

This year we have played 4 home and 6 away games. This time last year it was 5 and 5.

emergingstar · 05-11-2012 12:44PM

Serious question if proper money comes available in jan do we give it to wenger or wait and give it to his potential replacement in the summer

I'm a pro wenger and everyone on this board knows it, I would give him the money but I don't think he is above critisim and its time we have a debate bout weather he is the man to bring us forward

I think he is the man for the job weather he is giving money to push us back for title, or not and told to keep us in top 4 I don't think there is anyone better

That's just my opinion wouldn't knock anyone who thinks different and wondering what people think

05-11-2012 01:06PM

I'd like to see Pep come in.

Sergio · 05-11-2012 01:08PM

emergingstar wrote: »

Serious question if proper money comes available in jan do we give it to wenger or wait and give it to his potential replacement in the summer

I'm a pro wenger and everyone on this board knows it, I would give him the money but I don't think he is above critisim and its time we have a debate bout weather he is the man to bring us forward

I think he is the man for the job weather he is giving money to push us back for title, or not and told to keep us in top 4 I don't think there is anyone better

That's just my opinion wouldn't knock anyone who thinks different and wondering what people think

I agree that it is time for some open criticism of AW.Not just last saturdays game but the norwich game,the CL against Shalka and the defeat to Chelsea at home were all clear and obvious signs that we are not performing as well as we should be.Serious questions of tactics,individual players etc etc. If man utd were sharper in front of goal last sat then it could of easily been similiar to the 8-2 last year.Im sick of the same crap for the past few seasons. I just think theres is no direction for the club at the moment and i dont know whether its down to AW or the board members.
I was one of the "sack wenger" brigade this time last year but im not sure whether the problem is with him or the running of the club and if a new manager came would it change things.Its a tough one to call,what do you guys think?

Sergio · 05-11-2012 01:09PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd like to see Pep come in.

me too but but we couldnt afford him

emergingstar · 05-11-2012 01:14PM

Sergio wrote: »

me too but but we couldnt afford him

Think we could isn't wenger the highest paid manager in the premier league

05-11-2012 01:28PM

Charisteas wrote: »

It's so easy to twist these things though.

For example, this season we have played the top 3 already. This time last year, we hadn't played Man City yet, who as we know would go on to win the league.

This year we have played 4 home and 6 away games. This time last year it was 5 and 5.

I'm not twisting it, I'm comparing the same matches against the same teams last season instead of just the first 10 matches, hence, "corresponding" fixtures.

cson · 05-11-2012 01:28PM

A couple of poor results and the sack the manager chat rises to the surface again. Its as plain as day that the clubs transfer policy is whats holding us back. Not even in terms of being able to buy players, but just being able to hold onto our own. From what I can see the problem at the club is twofold and it comes down to resilience; the powers that be at the club don't have it when it comes to putting down any contract rebels/knocking back offers and the team don't have enough of it over the course of a season. We're coasting at the moment and I think while AW is partially culpable, he's the least culpable of all.

ugsparky · 05-11-2012 01:30PM

Half full stadium? I dont like it when people who do not invest there time and money to go see there team play slag the team and its lack of supporters when they have no clue whatsoever.

i have been to a few games this season already. i went to a QPR game and it was almost full house, easily 55k inside.

last season i went to a few carling cup games and again over 50k supports inside the stadium.

Maybe you should read my post again - did I say half full stadium ? Do you even know what the full capacity of the stadium is ?

Also - I am one of the people who invest their time and money and go to see their team playing. I hope you enjoyed your trip over to see them play QPR. As I said I'm travelling over to see them against Spurs. I may or may not have a clue whatsoever - however I've lost count of the number of games I've travelled over to - including Champions League midweek games - I was at the first ever game in the Emirates - still got the t-shirt :cool: - it sits alongside my many other shirts/t-shirts/Arsenal books/momento's etc. I haven't been to any Carling Cup games - they reduce the ticket prices for these games I believe. I suppose you'll tell me next you were good mates with Denton ?

05-11-2012 01:34PM

Wk | Team | (H/A) | 12/13 | 11/12
1 | Sunderland | (A) | 1 | 3
2 | Stoke | (A) | 1 | 1
3 | Liverpool | (A) | 3 | 3
4 | Southampton | (H) | 3 | 3
5 | City | (A) | 1 | 0
6 | Chelsea | (H) | 0 | 1
7 | W'ham | (A) | 3 | 3
8 | Norwich | (A)| 0 | 3
9 | QPR | (H) | 3 | 3
10 | Un't | (A) | 0 | 0
|Total | | 15 | 20

5 points worse off than the corresponding fixtures from the year before. But it doesn't feel as bad for some reason!

emergingstar · 05-11-2012 01:38PM

cson wrote: »

A couple of poor results and the sack the manager chat rises to the surface again. Its as plain as day that the clubs transfer policy is whats holding us back. Not even in terms of being able to buy players, but just being able to hold onto our own. From what I can see the problem at the club is twofold and it comes down to resilience; the powers that be at the club don't have it when it comes to putting down any contract rebels/knocking back offers and the team don't have enough of it over the course of a season. We're coasting at the moment and I think while AW is partially culpable, he's the least culpable of all.

While I agree most of what's wrong is coming from above
Some of wengers decision seem baffling I think the questions or debate on his future are well warranted

ugsparky · 05-11-2012 01:56PM

I just fear that Arsene has lost the ability to motivate the players. We've looked seriously lacking in recent games - no real invention or creativity - players looking as if they are not happy playing the role or positions they are being asked to play in. I know in the past Arsene has taken players and played them in new positions - Cole, Toure, Henry - but it seems not to be working now. Podolski was centre forward at Koln. Oxlaide Chamberlain was playing wide at Southampton - not in midfield. Ramsey was playing midfield for Cardiff - not wide. Theo was playing more central at Southampton - how must he have felt watching Ramsey picked on the right side of midfield after he had himself scored a mid-week hatrick ? Something isn't right - I don't think it's going to be fixed against Schalke.

Galvasean · 05-11-2012 02:08PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Wk | Team | (H/A) | 12/13 | 11/12
1 | Sunderland | (A) | 1 | 3
2 | Stoke | (A) | 1 | 1
3 | Liverpool | (A) | 3 | 3
4 | Southampton | (H) | 3 | 3
5 | City | (A) | 1 | 0
6 | Chelsea | (H) | 0 | 1
7 | W'ham | (A) | 3 | 3
8 | Norwich | (A)| 0 | 3
9 | QPR | (H) | 3 | 3
10 | Un't | (A) | 0 | 0
|Total | | 15 | 20

5 points worse off than the corresponding fixtures from the year before. But it doesn't feel as bad for some reason!

Probably because at this time last season we had already lost to Liverpool at home, as opposed to this season where we beat them in Anfield.
That's why I don't think the corresponding fixtures list is a very good indicator at this stage in the season. It's too early to get an accurate reading as one run of good or bad form can seriously skew the results/findings.

05-11-2012 02:11PM

Galvasean wrote: »

Probably because at this time last season we had already lost to Liverpool at home, as opposed to this season where we best them in Anfield.
That's why I don't think the corresponding fixtures list is a very good indicator at this stage in the season. It's too early to get an accurate reading as one run of good or bad form can seriously skew the results/findings.

You say that but we got 10/12 points from the next 4 matches last season so it's going to take a very long run of good form to just match last season. It comes back to what I said at the start of the season, dropping points to **** teams leaves very little margin for error later on.

ugsparky · 05-11-2012 02:24PM

Gervinho was coming off the back of helping Lille to win the French league and had two great seasons with them. We went for Hazard, but when Hazard didn't want to leave Lille, we signed Gervinho instead and looked like a decent signing.

Clichy was replaced with Brazil's first choice left-back, I don't think anyone was complaining at the time.

Cesc is irreplaceable but Arteta had demonstrated he was a consistently good centre midfielder in a weak Everton team and with nearly 200 Premier League games experience when we signed him, and got him for a good price too.

Podolski, like RVP, is one of the top forwards in Europe. Thought it was a quality signing personally. You don't get 100 caps for Germany without having class.

More to the point is that they are quality experienced replacements and more importantly has demonstrated a change in policy of the usual replacing a star team member with a teenager

A few assumptions in there - especially Hazard not wanting to leave ... it was more a case of Arsenal not meeting the evaluation ... however.

I still believe we have not replaced players we sold/released - not even close - as far back as Pires, Gilberto, Campbell ...

I'm not interested in us becoming another Chelsea, Utd or City ... but ... we have lost out on players in the past because we have refused to pay the extra £'s asking price or even come near to paying the extra £'s asked for. Hazard, Mata, Vertonghen ... as far back as Torres !!! We were looking at either Torres or Reyes. Not BS but as told to me by my mate who had a close contact within the Emirates ... We could have had these players in some cases for less than they were eventually sold for. Instead we went for less expensive players - in some cases we didn't - Koscielney cost more than Cahill.

We'll agree to disagree - but can you honestly say Gervinho replaces Nasri or that Podolski replaces RvP. How do you replace Cesc ? - you pay the £35m from Barcelona to Lille for Hazard (we would have got him for £25M but we wouldn't take the chance !). My whole point was, if you look back to the "Invincibles" - how many of our current team would even make the bench ? I'm not blaming Arsene for this, although he must shoulder some of the critisism - but we are not even trading to stand still. Only time will tell if we finish top 4 or top 10. I hate to be so pessimistic but I never thought I would see us selling our best players to our biggest rivals both in the Premiership and Europe. Just saying it as I see it.

Galvasean · 05-11-2012 02:27PM

Squad for the Schalke match is in. Notable injuries: Ramssey and Gervinho.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/injured-ramsey-ruled-out-of-schalke-trip

Vito Mannone
James Shea
Bacary Sagna
Thomas Vermaelen
Mikel Arteta
Johan Djourou
Per Mertesacker
Laurent Koscielny
Jack Wilshere
Olivier Giroud
Santi Cazorla
Andre Santos
Lukas Podolski
Theo Walcott
Andrey Arshavin
Carl Jenkinson
Francis Coquelin
Marouane Chamakh

Turns out Martinez isn't registered for the Champions League this season (must be anon EU player cap or something). I was wondering why Shea was always on the bench in the CL.

Sergio · 05-11-2012 02:28PM

Another point lads that were are missing is yet again we have we have under performed against 2 of the of the the main title contender in man utd and chelsea. Both games we gave away sloppy goals. If we had defended better in both games we may not of beaten them both but we defo would of gotten a point in each game.Man utd werent great either last saturday and chelsea were poor too at the emirates. We played with some heart up at the ethihad stadium at least and were unlucky not to win the game i felt.

Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13 MOD POST #232

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