Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13 MOD POST #232

cson

Embarrassed today. If the transfer policy of the past few years hasn't been shown for what it is on the pitch today then I don't know what will. Its a decision between putting the club in debt and relatively competing or turning a profit and having days like today. Its galling tbh. Especially as we were a serious club only 8 years ago.

I'll be happy if Santos never plays for the club again after the shirt swapping debacle and as for Wenger greeting him like that... disappointed in the boss to say the least.

Also Mike Dean was an absolute ****ing joke of a homer ref today and I sincerely hope a few chickens come home to roost and he never refs at this level again.

tayto lover

cson wrote: »

Embarrassed today. If the transfer policy of the past few years hasn't been shown for what it is on the pitch today then I don't know what will. Its a decision between putting the club in debt and relatively competing or turning a profit and having days like today. Its galling tbh. Especially as we were a serious club only 8 years ago.

I'll be happy if Santos never plays for the club again after the shirt swapping debacle and as for Wenger greeting him like that... disappointed in the boss to say the least.

Also Mike Dean was an absolute ****ing joke of a homer ref today and I sincerely hope a few chickens come home to roost and he never refs at this level again.

We should object to Mike Dean refereeing our future games but we would actually find it hard to get a decision from many of the refs as Arsenal don't seem to be very popular with any of them.

We won't object though as the manager seems to lack a fighting spirit and this has rubbed off on the team. That team had no spirit going out onto the field today. Don't even get me started on the back-passes to the goalkeeper who just lumped it back out to the United players. Really shocking stuff altogether.

Pierce_1991

I'm no fan of Mike Dean but I didn't really have any problems with him today. Wilshere cudda gone for his tackle on RVP a few minutes before he did get his marching orders and the peno seemed a clear enough handball. Where were the issues with him?

tayto lover

Pierce_1991 wrote: »

I'm no fan of Mike Dean but I didn't really have any problems with him today. Wilshere cudda gone for his tackle on RVP a few minutes before he did get his marching orders and the peno seemed a clear enough handball. Where were the issues with him?

Cleverly should have gone too.
Wouldn't have mattered though. United would have beaten us with 9 men. We were not prepared for that game psychologically. Beaten before the kick-off.

bad2dabone

cson wrote: »

I'll be happy if Santos never plays for the club again after the shirt swapping debacle and as for Wenger greeting him like that... disappointed in the boss to say the least.

i'd be shipping santos out straight away. he's ****e anyway.

DB10

I've been saying Dean is like that for years. Remember him sending Wenger to the stands?

Its very convenient he always referees us against United. Either him or Howard " Give United a penalty" Webb. I've no problem with any other referee barring Phil Dowd, who I truely believe supports United on the sly. Whoever he supports, the man hates us with a passion.

As TL said there, the manager has no balls, a complaint about these referees should have been made a long time ago. Dowd and Dean have cost us dozens of points. Whatever you say about Chelsea, at least they arent walked on by the referees and Ferguson like we routinely are.

DB10

At the same time despite Dean ****ing us over, Wenger has nobody to blame but himself. If Wenger really wanted, he could easily have objected to having Dean in charge a long time ago. And Dean didnt cost us the match, he tried his best but we were ****e.

Pierce_1991

tayto lover wrote: »

Cleverly should have gone too.
Wouldn't have mattered though. United would have beaten us with 9 men. We were not prepared for that game psychologically. Beaten before the kick-off.

That Cleverly challenge came about a minute after Jack's tackle on RVP that he only got a warning for. I think it was good refereeing giving them both warnings. Cleverly didn't make any more silly tackles, Jack did.

cson

cson wrote: »

Embarrassed today. If the transfer policy of the past few years hasn't been shown for what it is on the pitch today then I don't know what will. Its a decision between putting the club in debt and relatively competing or turning a profit and having days like today. Its galling tbh. Especially as we were a serious club only 8 years ago.

I'll be happy if Santos never plays for the club again after the shirt swapping debacle and as for Wenger greeting him like that... disappointed in the boss to say the least.

Also Mike Dean was an absolute ****ing joke of a homer ref today and I sincerely hope a few chickens come home to roost and he never refs at this level again.

To be honest that looked pathetic. Im all on for friendships in football but thats something that should be done at the final whistle and in the players lounge after the game...maybe even a quick handshake in the tunnel beforehand.

However, Santos is not good enough suppose he wanted to mark Van Persie off the pitch today and kill him afterwards.

Tbh when you look at Man City im not so sure if spending 45 million on a player instead of the 5 million Arsenal spend is going to make much difference. Its in the coaching of the players you have. Look at Ajax v City a few weeks ago and look at Ryan Babel. A player who had a lot of question marks over him at Liverpool had a very good game. While some of the players are poor decision makers i honestly believe they are playing a system that they themselves dont believe in.

The manager reigns supreme at Arsenal. Such is his dominance and his insistence on being the main man that the likes of Dennis Bergkamp and other ex players have had to get their coaching experience elsewhere when they could offer Arsenal so much opinions whilst commanding huge respect. Fact is Wenger doesnt like being challenged.

Thats why Pat Rice was there so long and i wouldnt be surprised if rumours of Steve Bould and himself clashing are true. Fact is id say it galled Wenger to hear Bould getting such praise for the first 3 games of the season so thats probably why a revert to type A came about.

DB10

Pierce_1991 wrote: »

I'm no fan of Mike Dean but I didn't really have any problems with him today. Wilshere cudda gone for his tackle on RVP a few minutes before he did get his marching orders and the peno seemed a clear enough handball. Where were the issues with him?

The penalty was incredibly harsh. So close he was protecting his face. We would never have got that at the other end.

West Ham handled a similar cross against City earlier and no pen, no uproar either.

You just know if a United man handled it, "he was protecting his face, and was too close. Accidental handball" :rolleyes:

Pierce_1991

DB10 wrote: »

The penalty was incredibly harsh. So close he was protecting his face. We would never have got that at the other end.

West Ham handled a similar cross against City earlier and no pen, no uproar either.

You just know if a United man handled it, "he was protecting his face, and was too close. Accidental handball" :rolleyes:

If a United man handled it we'd want a peno for it I think.

bad2dabone

I don't want to be a Wenger-out advocate (yet), but I can see him not extending his contract.

And perhaps that would be for the best.

DB10

Pierce_1991 wrote: »

If a United man handled it we'd want a peno for it I think.

I'd take anything at OT, but I'm certain we'd never have got that at the Stretford End.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Good jesus will you stop your trolling :mad: as if we're not pissed off enough then to have to entertain your rubbish.

Sorry, Wenger out is it? I can't keep up with the changes in sentiment on this thread.

I just don't get what's happened to players like Santos, he just looks like he doesn't care. Vermaelen shouldn't have been made captain as he should be in our first 11 IMO. Sagna is stifled by having Ramsey in front of him. Cazorla's been practically anonymous for the last month. Arteta is being wasted where he is. Wilshere tried but on his own. Giroud was completely isolated and the odd time he got into a good position he was overlooked.

The whole team needs a proper boot up the arse.

There is no work ethic in the Arsenal squad. Other then the Milan game at the Emirates last season when we played like men possessed, I cant think of any occasion where an Arsenal player has lost the ball and fought like a dog to get it back. Barca for example have a strict philosophy to win it back 6 seconds from losing it.

tayto lover

DB10 wrote: »

I'd take anything at OT, but I'm certain we'd never have got that at the Stretford End.

Mike Dean's refereeing of Arsenal since 2009 --Found this little article tonight.

Since 2009, Arsenal's form with Dean is now D-D-L-D-L-D-L-L-W-L-L-D-L-W-L-D-D. But, look at that! A win and two draws from the last four matches! The win was the 5-2 over Tottenham last year; the most recent draw was the 1-1 at Manchester City in September (which was a pretty good feeling draw.) The prior draw was the April 0-0 with Chelsea when both sides were more terrified of conceding than they were dynamically trying to score. The loss in that mix was the 2-1 at QPR in March. So, it's still not great form, but it's better than nothing, right? Right?

Mike Dean has worked this fixture before, twice in that above run of form, in fact. One of the early draws in that string was the 0-0 in May of 2009 that won United the league. In August of 2009, Dean was in the middle of Arsenal's controversial 2-1 loss at Old Trafford, in which he booked six Arsenal players, awarded Wayne Rooney a penalty, called Arsenal's injury time equalizer offside (it was,) then sent off Arsene Wenger for kicking a water bottle. Then again, it's not Dean's fault that Abou Diaby headed in United's winner. And sending off Wenger is now well established to have been Lee Probert's fault.

All things considered, Arsenal's best form in terms of referees is with Mark Clattenburg (seven straight wins,) and there is no way he was going to get this match this weekend after what happened Sunday.

As for Dean's recent record with Manchester United, he was in the middle for their come-from-behind 3-2 win at Southampton in early September. Last year, he took charge of three United matches: a 1-0 win at Swansea, their 2-1 win at the Emirates, and their 3-2 home loss to Blackburn Rovers on New Year's Eve (one of only two losses in the league they suffered at Old Trafford last year.)

DB10

Best from with Clattenberg, probably wont have him now for a while either
Hope he overcomes the ridiculous allegations by Cheatski.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry, Wenger out is it? I can't keep up with the changes in sentiment on this thread.

I just don't get what's happened to players like Santos, he just looks like he doesn't care. Vermaelen shouldn't have been made captain as he should be in our first 11 IMO. Sagna is stifled by having Ramsey in front of him. Cazorla's been practically anonymous for the last month. Arteta is being wasted where he is. Wilshere tried but on his own. Giroud was completely isolated and the odd time he got into a good position he was overlooked.

The whole team needs a proper boot up the arse.

Yes the players need a good long hard look at themselves but this has been a long continuing problem regardless of the personnel and it lies strictly at the managers door.

Does Arsene Wenger command the same respect at the club as he did between 1998 and 2004? I dont know if Wenger should go tbh as the last time i thought that we had that run towards the end of last season which seen us come third, but is that the height of the clubs ambitions? I have to admit being an Arsenal fan is like being stuck in Groundhog day at times.

Different year, same mistakes, same pain in the hole. I dont know if it was light hearted sarcasm you were making when you said 'Arsenal had the best defence in the league'. Maybe i jumped the gun and factually you may be correct but in all fairness its a scant fact and United should have stuck 6, maybe 7 past us today if they went out all guns blazing.

We have offered no goal threat from the midfield to the 18 yard box and have Giroud in there against two or three men even and he starved of good ball.

I dont or never have rated Mike Dean as a ref but i think if we allude to his awful performance today it papers over the cracks of our own.

DB10

Wenger seems to be blaming Dean also. He never says what he really thinks though.

keano_afc

It wasnt the ref's fault we were crap, again. It wasnt the ref's fault Vermaelen teed up RvP's goal. It wasnt the ref's fault Santos was more interested in getting a former players shirt than focusing on getting us back into the game. It wasnt the ref's fault we didnt try a jot. I could go on.

Blaming the ref is ridiculous, to be honest. We stank the place out, again. It was actually worse then Norwich imo.

brianregan09

The ref aways gets the blame, our 1st shot on target came in the 94th minute ,United should have beat us by more than 2-1 we've been terrible for the last month this is nothing new I dread whats gonna happen in germany in midweek

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

Mike Dean's refereeing of Arsenal since 2009 --Found this little article tonight.

Since 2009, Arsenal's form with Dean is now D-D-L-D-L-D-L-L-W-L-L-D-L-W-L-D-D. But, look at that! A win and two draws from the last four matches! The win was the 5-2 over Tottenham last year; the most recent draw was the 1-1 at Manchester City in September (which was a pretty good feeling draw.) The prior draw was the April 0-0 with Chelsea when both sides were more terrified of conceding than they were dynamically trying to score. The loss in that mix was the 2-1 at QPR in March. So, it's still not great form, but it's better than nothing, right? Right?

Mike Dean has worked this fixture before, twice in that above run of form, in fact. One of the early draws in that string was the 0-0 in May of 2009 that won United the league. In August of 2009, Dean was in the middle of Arsenal's controversial 2-1 loss at Old Trafford, in which he booked six Arsenal players, awarded Wayne Rooney a penalty, called Arsenal's injury time equalizer offside (it was,) then sent off Arsene Wenger for kicking a water bottle. Then again, it's not Dean's fault that Abou Diaby headed in United's winner. And sending off Wenger is now well established to have been Lee Probert's fault.

All things considered, Arsenal's best form in terms of referees is with Mark Clattenburg (seven straight wins,) and there is no way he was going to get this match this weekend after what happened Sunday.

As for Dean's recent record with Manchester United, he was in the middle for their come-from-behind 3-2 win at Southampton in early September. Last year, he took charge of three United matches: a 1-0 win at Swansea, their 2-1 win at the Emirates, and their 3-2 home loss to Blackburn Rovers on New Year's Eve (one of only two losses in the league they suffered at Old Trafford last year.)

Worst thing about reading us is that in the 1 win we've gotten with him reffing he gave Spurs a ridiculous penalty for Gareth Bale falling over a breath of wind.

Regardless of the ref today United win, that doesn't mean we can't discuss his incompetence though.

tayto lover

keano_afc wrote: »

It wasnt the ref's fault we were crap, again. It wasnt the ref's fault Vermaelen teed up RvP's goal. It wasnt the ref's fault Santos was more interested in getting a former players shirt than focusing on getting us back into the game. It wasnt the ref's fault we didnt try a jot. I could go on.

Blaming the ref is ridiculous, to be honest. We stank the place out, again. It was actually worse then Norwich imo.

Agree but Dean did us no favours either.

I knew we were not up for this as soon as I saw the love-in in the tunnel. All that hugging and kissing of RVP nearly made me puke. We should have took them on from the start but the bout of back-passing to Vito and then he lumping it straight back to them was shocking. Didn't even know about the Santos/RVP jersey thing until much later. Brown nosing doesn't win you games.

meriwether

I'm in despair. This was worse than the 8-2 in many respects.

We are now a routine victory for United. We turn up. They turn us over. They go on and hunt bigger fry in City and Chelsea.

I have been a solid supporter of the corporate strategy we employed over the past decade, but I'm disillusioned now. The sale of Cesc, Nasri, RVP have finally caught up with us now.

Today, we had a poor third choice goalie, a fat useless prick at LB, a 31 year old at RB, Per (no complaints there) and Vermalen (major complaints there).

Midfield of Arteta, Santi and Jack is fine. Left wing of Podolski - he has been **** recently, but I'm an optimist.

Then the problems get worse. Ramsey is out of position, but we have no right winger. Giroud is the latter day Wiltord. Wiltod was ideal back up. But we still had Henry and Bergkamp. Giroud is our main man.

We can't defend properly, we can't attack.

We might not come top 4 this season. Mercifully, Spurs are spurs, so we may fluke it again.

L'prof

Can't believe people are focusing on Mike Dean after seeing that performance today. We just weren't good enough in any way, shape or form! Sure, we could have robbed a point if a few more decisions had gone our way, but we certainly didn't deserve it!

meriwether

L'prof wrote: »

Can't believe people are focusing on Mike Dean after seeing that performance today. We just weren't good enough in any way, shape or form! Sure, we could have robbed a point if a few more decisions had gone our way, but we certainly didn't deserve it!

First shot on target after 90 minutes.

Once upon a time we had Pires, Ljungberg, DB10 and TH14.

Its farcical whats going on at the club.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Yeah I don't know where the talk of the ref came from, he had a grand match. Could have sent off Cleverley possibly but he got a warning just like Jack did. Was just another all round abject performance.


@ Meriweather ^^ Sagna is 29, not 31.

Drexel

meriwether wrote: »

I'm in despair. This was worse than the 8-2 in many respects.

We are now a routine victory for United. We turn up. They turn us over. They go on and hunt bigger fry in City and Chelsea.

I have been a solid supporter of the corporate strategy we employed over the past decade, but I'm disillusioned now. The sale of Cesc, Nasri, RVP have finally caught up with us now.

Today, we had a poor third choice goalie, a fat useless prick at LB, a 31 year old at RB, Per (no complaints there) and Vermalen (major complaints there).

Midfield of Arteta, Santi and Jack is fine. Left wing of Podolski - he has been **** recently, but I'm an optimist.

Then the problems get worse. Ramsey is out of position, but we have no right winger. Giroud is the latter day Wiltord. Wiltod was ideal back up. But we still had Henry and Bergkamp. Giroud is our main man.

We can't defend properly, we can't attack.

We might not come top 4 this season. Mercifully, Spurs are spurs, so we may fluke it again.

Wiltod scored against UTD

Mickeroo

Just read the only reason Wenger subbed Ramsey when he did was because of an injury and not because he acknowledged how bad the game was going or ineffective he was. Baffling.