Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] Poll Reset

Ghandee · 27-10-2012 10:41AM

lugha wrote: »

Again I say, this has nothing to do with the arguments for and against a property tax but I’ll indulge you and follow you in your off-topic foray

So let’s think about the “incompetency” and ask what how they might have done things differently.

I think the could have, and did, anticipate a lot of problems with compiling a valid register of property owners from existing sources.

So a sensible course of action might have been to set about compiling anew, a register of property owners. And a way to do this would be to appeal to people’s honesty and invite them to voluntarily submit their name to the register. Which pretty much, was the purpose of the HHC.

(Given the incessant complaining from the people about tax evasion and corruption and the like, they may have, naively, reasoned that only a tiny minority would have considered themselves above the law and not registered)

And here and now, in a breath-taking display of hypocrisy, we have the very people who frustrated efforts to compile a register criticising because of problems that arose because of their law-breaking ways. (The worst part is, I think some of them don’t even see the hypocrisy)

Once again, a “won’t payer” completely misses the point. But I see you’re on the sauce, so we will let that one go.

This concludes the party political broadcast, posted by Lugha.

Hypocrisy? You're having a laugh (trolling) or both, right?

First off, 'honesty' went right out the window when these hoods reneged on almost every promise they made (pay caps, bondholders, banks, transparency etc etc etc) before they were in office a wet week.

Secondly,

And a way to do this would be to appeal to people’s honesty and invite them to voluntarily submit their name to the register. Which pretty much, was the purpose of the HHC.

By appeal, you mean threaten?
By invite, you mean, change numerous laws to suit them selves, then demand payment with constant reminders that not doing so, made folk Tax evader/criminal's who'd be fined and threatened with not being able to sell your house etc etc etc.
By voluntary, you mean 'charged' a hundred euro, get that, they charge us, to set up their data base for them, to enable them to annually screw us with a property tax that they've refused to give us details about, so in essence we're expected to sign a contract that will charge us, an unknown amount each year, (and how much it could increase each year) how the charges will be calculated, and what it is you'll get for your money.

Lugha, do me a favour.

Le_Dieux · 27-10-2012 11:00AM

Ghandee wrote: »

Hypocrisy? You're having a laugh (trolling) or both, right?

First off, 'honesty' went right out the window when these hoods reneged on almost every promise they made (pay caps, bondholders, banks, transparency etc etc etc) before they were in office a wet week.

Secondly,

By appeal, you mean threaten?
By invite, you mean, change numerous laws to suit them selves, then demand payment with constant reminders that not doing so, made folk Tax evader/criminal's who'd be fined and threatened with not being able to sell your house etc etc etc.
By voluntary, you mean 'charged' a hundred euro, get that, they charge us, to set up their data base for them, to enable them to annually screw us with a property tax that they've refused to give us details about, so in essence we're expected to sign a contract that will charge us, an unknown amount each year, (and how much it could increase each year) how the charges will be calculated, and what it is you'll get for your moody.

Lugha, do me a favour.

The underhanded tactics by the govt.(???) over this is mind boggling GH.

On our Estates Forum I actually posted a link during the week on this very topic. As our Estate was inadvertandtly omitted from the exemption list, I used the following to highlight something: http://www.moneyguideireland.com/kildare-unfinished-estates-with-a-household-charge-waiver.html

Note the following paragraph just prior to the commencement of the list: Note : – owners of homes on these estates are still supposed to register for the Household charge and claim the waiver for 2012.

They will do ANYTHING to get people to register. Is it any wonder people dead for 26 years are getting reminders, yet some of those non-payers ( me included) have not got a letter so far??? We are a fcuking joke - PLAIN AND SIMPLE!

GOBSMACKED!!!

lugha · 27-10-2012 11:02AM

Ghandee wrote: »

blah blah blah .....

So I was right! You genuinely cannot see the hypocrisy?

I wonder will any of the rest of your gang spot it? (Are you on the drink as well? :pac:)

Ghandee · 27-10-2012 11:06AM

lugha wrote: »

So I was right! You genuinely cannot see the hypocrisy? I wonder will any of the rest of your gang spot it? (Are you on the drink as well? :pac:)

Faced with a very valid point and argument, that reply was the very best you could muster up as a response?

You could at least attempt to counter what I posted.

Back under your rock please.:cool:

bgrizzley · 27-10-2012 11:52AM

lugha wrote: »

So I was right! You genuinely cannot see the hypocrisy? I wonder will any of the rest of your gang spot it? (Are you on the drink as well? :pac:)

can you see the the hypocrisy in your statement about the government appealing to our honesty?
most of the protaxers here have admitted they are dishonest!!!!

lugha · 27-10-2012 12:34PM

bgrizzley wrote: »

can you see the the hypocrisy in your statement about the government appealing to our honesty?
most of the protaxers here have admitted they are dishonest!!!!

I cannot really tell if you guys are really having trouble understanding the point being made of if it just suits you to pretend that you don’t.

If you want to discuss the promises and broken promises of government parties that off you go.

If you want to make the “argument” then enforcing the law constitutes bullying that off you go.

If you want the honest or dishonesty of the government then off you go.

If you even want to whinge that anyone who highlights your confused and muddled thinking is a government shill (howya Ghandee!

) then off you go.

Etc. etc.

However, if you reply to a post then you should make some effort to address the matters raised in that post.

And the very simple and singular point of my post was that if you opted to break the law and not pay the HHC then it is hypocritical to criticize problems that arose directly as a result of your decision.

But never mind, we can’t expect the “won’t pay” gang to break the habit of 20,000+ posts and actually think their positions out.

Cantona's Collars · 27-10-2012 12:37PM

Has anybody heard anything about the next batch of warning letters being delivered & the recipients having to sign for them just so the LA/Moneygrabbers know that you exist?

bgrizzley · 27-10-2012 12:49PM

sometimes this thread reminds me of a rodeo, where they send in the clown to distract the bull from the rider

tayto lover · 27-10-2012 12:58PM

zerks wrote: »

Has anybody heard anything about the next batch of warning letters being delivered & the recipients having to sign for them just so the LA/Moneygrabbers know that you exist?

I don't answer my door to anyone, especially strangers, and certainly not the LA. After all they have already told me when I contacted them about blocked drains that my house is private and of no concern to them. Suits me fine now.

darkhorse · 27-10-2012 02:24PM

darkhorse wrote: »

You people simply dont get it. Just for one minute, forget about all the arguements from both sides. Just think about it and think about how much the sheer incompetency is costing(the taxpayer again). I think we have already heard from a representitive amount of people, through one media or another, even the head of the LGMA has admitted that they have sent out quite a lot of reminder letters to people that have paid. So, with this in mind, imagine there had been a bigger percentage of people paying the HHC, say 99% for example, well, judging by all we have heard, either on chat shows, read in newspapers, or even heard from the horses mouth, about the volume of reminder letters, in some cases second and third letters, reminders letters were going to be sent to people that have paid anyway, bearing in mind also that maybe a high percentage of these people that have received them, maybe old and frail and some even suffering with major health problems(a person I know with a heart problem paid, but got a letter anyway saying penalties had accrued(imagine the stress), I think you all know where I am going with this, but still thousands of euro's would be wasted sending out letters to people, whether they had paid or not. I'm sorry, but I just dont think that any amount of money is worth worsening the already poor health of people. So, I am saying, if people cannot do the preparatory work that a project like collecting a HHC calls for(and getting a reasonable remuneration for said work, from public purse, btw), that said project should be scrapped. (Probably the drink talking, if so, I'll stop talking)

lugha wrote: »

Again I say, this has nothing to do with the arguments for and against a property tax but I’ll indulge you and follow you in your off-topic foray

Will you have a look at the sentence in bold(I also enlarged it a little bit, so you would'nt get mixed up) and if you read the rest of the post, explain to me why you dont think it is relative to this arguement.

Lone Stone · 27-10-2012 02:41PM

zerks wrote: »

Has anybody heard anything about the next batch of warning letters being delivered & the recipients having to sign for them just so the LA/Moneygrabbers know that you exist?

just refuse to sign it

Le_Dieux · 27-10-2012 03:02PM

Ghandee wrote: »

Bunch of self serving ****.

Roll on 2013 that's when they'll fall!

GH, pardon my ignorance, but what's happening in 2013?

Ghandee · 27-10-2012 04:01PM

Le_Dieux wrote: »

GH, pardon my ignorance, but what's happening in 2013?

Well, if we are to believe just how savage this budget in December is to be, 3.5 billion in cuts, with (so we're told) nobody will be left untouched, this will be bad enough, tax will be added to many vital commodities, and services will be cut, blah blah blah.

The public well be upset enough, but in saying that, there may be some that would have been prepared to hold their tongue, and have been somewhat placid by saying we're in recession,v austerity, etc etc etc.

But then, others will look towards the budget DE have to themselves yesterday.

Not only did they not cut the budget, (leaving it unchanged should anger the public enough) but they went and granted them selves a further four million more than last year:eek:

Now, if our auld flower Lugha wishes to discuss hypocrisy, he should focus on the clowns in govt.

I think their might be serious ructions on the streets post budget, serious enough to possibly see a govt fall.

Am Chile · 27-10-2012 05:10PM

Seen on the journal mayo county council is the first council to issue court cummonses.

MAYO
COUNTY COUNCIL has come under fire today after becoming the first local
authority to issue court summonses over the non-payment of the household
charge.

According
to the Irish Daily Star, a number of court dates have been set for the coming
weeks.

http://www.thejournal.ie/mayo-county-council-criticised-for-household-charge-court-summonses-652350-Oct2012/

Buford Tannen · 27-10-2012 05:22PM

Am Chile wrote: »

Can you remember the title of the article so I can look it up.

Would this be what you are looking for

http://irelandafternama.wordpress.co...harge-numbers/

Le_Dieux · 27-10-2012 05:25PM

Ghandee wrote: »

Well, if we are to believe just how savage this budget in December is to be, 3.5 billion in cuts, with (so we're told) nobody will be left untouched, this will be bad enough, tax will be added to many vital commodities, and services will be cut, blah blah blah.

The public well be upset enough, but in saying that, there may be some that would have been prepared to hold their tongue, and have been somewhat placid by saying we're in recession,v austerity, etc etc etc.

But then, others will look towards the budget DE have to themselves yesterday.

Not only did they not cut the budget, (leaving it unchanged should anger the public enough) but they went and granted them selves a further four million more than last year:eek:

Now, if our auld flower Lugha wishes to discuss hypocrisy, he should focus on the clowns in govt.

I think their might be serious ructions on the streets post budget, serious enough to possibly see a govt fall.

Surely we will be on the streets in early December this year Ghandee?

Ghandee · 27-10-2012 05:36PM

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Surely we will be on the streets in early December this year Ghandee?

I'll be on them from 24th of Nov lol.

Le_Dieux · 27-10-2012 05:50PM

zerks wrote: »

Has anybody heard anything about the next batch of warning letters being delivered & the recipients having to sign for them just so the LA/Moneygrabbers know that you exist?

Am still awaiting the FIRST letter Zerks, while on the Joe Duffy show during the week, people who are DEAD 26 years got letters, and people connected with these deceased were then told to pay 15 quid for the 'privelidge' of having their names take off the list.

UTTER MADNESS!!!

Hijpo · 27-10-2012 05:54PM

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Am still awaiting the FIRST letter Zerks, while on the Joe Duffy show during the week, people who are DEAD 26 years got letters, and people connected with these deceased were then told to pay 15 quid for the 'privelidge' of having their names take off the list.

UTTER MADNESS!!!

it was actually 25 quid lol
not to mention the cost of the visit to the solicitor and the cost of the copy of the death cert.

Getting back to the spelling mistake when cross refrencing address's. the point im making is, if only address's were cross refrenced then 2 reminders to the 1 address for each person wouldnt be happening. 1 spelling mistake to one address = one letter, however 1 spelling mistake to each person = 2 letters to the one address and so on

What happens when they decide to use one of the other databases, out of the apparently wide range available to them, with another spelling mistake? two more reminder letters? one to each person at that address?
Even if you do ring them and say "2 The Avenue is paid" the next database that they use to try and catch more people has "2 the avenuue" and theres 2 more first reminder letters heading to that house.

It goes beyond ridiculous.

Le_Dieux · 27-10-2012 06:01PM

Hijpo wrote: »

it was actually 25 quid lol

Thanks Hijpo...even more insulting to the bereaved.

darkhorse · 27-10-2012 09:40PM

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Thanks Hijpo...even more insulting to the bereaved.

Here's some great news, L.D.:-

WE may be stuck in the teeth of economic collapse, but Irish people still earn more, work less and are happier than most of the developed world.

In general; Irish people are more satisfied with their lives than the OECD average, with 77pc of people saying they have more positive experiences in an average day (feelings of rest, pride in accomplishment, enjoyment, etc) than negative ones (pain, worry, sadness, boredom, etc). The OECD average is 72pc.

When I read it first, I thought, how did Physics Live get the Indo. to run a story like this. But, no, it is a report from the OECD. I feel happier already.:)

darkhorse · 27-10-2012 09:52PM

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Thanks Hijpo...even more insulting to the bereaved.

I'm really sorry to have to follow it with bad news:-

THERE HAS BEEN a rise in public support in Fine Gael, according to the results of a Red C poll to be published in tomorrow’s Sunday Business Post.

Le_Dieux · 28-10-2012 07:47AM

darkhorse wrote: »

I'm really sorry to have to follow it with bad news:-

THERE HAS BEEN a rise in public support in Fine Gael, according to the results of a Red C poll to be published in tomorrow’s Sunday Business Post.

Ignoring FG for a moment....

Labour imho are in SERIOUS trouble, and gilmore has a LOT to answer for. I am just amazed the likes of Burton haven't been making noises about this.

For me, gilmore committed the cardinal sin, and will lose the leadership of his party yet over this. He went behind one of his own and backed a party member of his more senior coalition party. Eamonn, remember the name ROISIN SHORTALL, as you will live to regret stabbing her in the back. In my eyes, you are nothing more than a two-faced traitor who will do anything to cover your own arsse. Oh and again imho, rocking up in the heart of Ballyfermott in a Beemer is not the greatest PR exercise ever invented - not in these hard economic times anyhow.

As for FG..they by any chance have shares in RED C? or was this poll conducted in the county of Mayo??

Le_Dieux · 28-10-2012 09:47AM

And on & on it goes, where it stops? Nobody knows!

The cluelessness and ineptitude of EK knows no bounds:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/kenny-asks-shatter-to-meddle-in-family-case-3276736.html

Ghandee · 28-10-2012 02:36PM

Le_Dieux wrote: »

And on & on it goes, where it stops? Nobody knows!

The cluelessness and ineptitude of EK knows no bounds:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/kenny-asks-shatter-to-meddle-in-family-case-3276736.html

The tail trying to wag the dog lol :pac:

Le_Dieux · 29-10-2012 12:46PM

Wow, all gone very quiet? Or all chelsea supporter's?:-)))

darkhorse · 29-10-2012 12:53PM

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Wow, all gone very quiet? Or all chelsea supporter's?:-)))

I was next door on another thread, I did'nt hear ya coming in.:D

mikom · 29-10-2012 12:55PM

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Wow, all gone very quiet? Or all chelsea supporter's?:-)))

Vested interest public sector workers not at their work pc's today............

Le_Dieux · 29-10-2012 12:57PM

mikom wrote: »

Vested interest public sector workers not at their work pc's today............

LOL Mikom, wish You were right in only saying away from tehir desks for one day, but remember they voted themselves ( UNOPPOSED) to give themselves the week off!!

Am Chile · 29-10-2012 02:25PM

A video from Spanish TV on the Irish Household tax boycott-click on the below link.

http://www.lasexta.com/videos-online/programas/salvados/mejores-momentos/irlandeses-impuesto-vivienda_2012102800077.html

Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

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Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] Poll Reset