Sending Cattle to the Factory - How it all Works?

TippNorth · 24-10-2012 05:16PM #1

Hi All,

I'm looking for information on the in's and out's of sending cattle to the factory as I'm not overly familiar with the workings of it all.

Just to give you some background, we were always in dairy up until recently when we had to sell the cows due to dads health and now we are simply buying in weanlings each year at approximately 350kg and selling them at 600-650kg on an almost entirely grass based system. I have a full time job so I keep things ticking over on the farm part time. We never had reason to send cattle to the factory as the yearlings were all sold in the mart apart for the occasional cull cow. Last year was our first year in this system and we simply sold on the cattle in the mart. But i'm thinking this year should we send them to the factory? So here are the questions I hope some of you can help with:

What weight should cattle be ideally, going to the factory ?(we typically buy Angus and Hereford weanlings)

Can anyone ring up the factory and book in cattle or do you need an agent?

We will have around 80 cattle each year, would the factory be willing to give someone a contract at an agreed rate for so few?

dzer2 · 24-10-2012 07:38PM

Angus cattle have a premium on them if you join with clonee, they will slaughter there also if you are rearing 80 you should look at doing butcher cattle as you will most money there abd you can try to supply all year round to keep up a cash flow. Other than that keep an eye on the journal for prices then ring around and the factory willsend some one to look at them.

Farmer Pudsey · 24-10-2012 08:43PM

No factory will give you a forward contract price for 80 cattle if it was 800 maybe. Ask a few neighbours who finish cattle who are there agents. You are well positioned you are near Nenagh, Kilbeggan , Roscrea, Kildare etc. Most will have agents in the area. Aibp do both Angus and Hereford schemes. If you can build up a good relationship with one or two agents you will be ok. Factory's will take cattle in small bunches even one at the time however an agent will not be happy calling to see one also if you have a bunch of 10+ you have more bargining power

Angus and Hereford cattle at 600-650kgs liveweight are nearly at there finishing weight. Most Angus would be finished around 650kgs while most Herefords should finish at or before 700kgs. By the sounds of your cattle 6-8 week feeding would finish. 350kgs is great weight for AA/HEX weanlings are they bought in the spring.

You could finish the smaller butty AA and HEX off grass in the autaum by feeding 4-6kgs on grass for 6-8 weeks however you have to target away from the glut. The AA scheme is giving a good bonus from november on if you kill over 50 cattle a year with them might be worth targeting that

blue5000 · 24-10-2012 11:19PM

As pudsey says you have lots of factories round you, Rathdowney might be worth a try too, if you don't mind waiting a week for a cheque.

Try give ABP in Nenagh a call first as they would be a good outlet for hereford prime and angus certified. You'd need to be killing 20 angus a year to get into the triple A scheme which is worth up to 20 cent a kg over the base rate at certain times of the year.

http://www.angusproducergroup.com/ is a link to one of the angus beef schemes, there are two.

Farmer Pudsey · 25-10-2012 07:26AM

blue5000 wrote: »

As pudsey says you have lots of factories round you, Rathdowney might be worth a try too, if you don't mind waiting a week for a cheque.
Try give ABP in Nenagh a call first as they would be a good outlet for hereford prime and angus certified. You'd need to be killing 20 angus a year to get into the triple A scheme which is worth up to 20 cent a kg over the base rate at certain times of the year.

http://www.angusproducergroup.com/ is a link to one of the angus beef schemes, there are two.

50 if you are a finisher I think

PatQfarmer · 25-10-2012 09:42AM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

50 if you are a finisher I think

Correct. 20 for suckler farmer, 50 for the rest of us poor producers.

TippNorth · 25-10-2012 11:26AM

Thanks for the advice lads,

Dzer I like the idea of trying to arrange a contract with a local butcher, it could make for a very handy arrangement, and possibly slightly better prices. I'd just have to see how easy it would be in practice to to get some local butchers to agree to it!

FarmerPudsey, thanks for the info, I hadn't really looked into the Angus and Hereford Prime schemes before but they definitely look very much worthwhile. Those are fairly generous bonuses.

For the AAA bonus for certified Angus what are the requirements I just can't seem to find a breakdown of how the bonus is applied or how much is it worth, is it simply produce 50 Angus cattle per year to qualify?

Am I right then in saying that you can get a bonus from bord Bia if you join the QA scheme (6c/kg) on top of the AAA bonus, with a third bonus of up to 20c/kg for having the animals finished at certain times (November)?

Tipp Man · 25-10-2012 11:40AM

Are you producing bullocks, heifers or both?

butchers will almost definately want heifers and generally they don't want them too heavy

TippNorth · 25-10-2012 12:09PM

Tipp Man wrote: »

Are you producing bullocks, heifers or both?

butchers will almost definately want heifers and generally they don't want them too heavy

Currently we have mostly bullocks but we have a few heifers , around 20% are heifers, so I suppose I could target these for sale to a butcher. Would a butcher typically pay more than you would make by sending the heifer to the factory?

dzer2 · 25-10-2012 12:52PM

TippNorth wrote: »

Thanks for the advice lads,

Am I right then in saying that you can get a bonus from bord Bia if you join the QA scheme (6c/kg) on top of the AAA bonus, with a third bonus of up to 20c/kg for having the animals finished at certain times (November)?

Yeah its definitely worth being BB QA about 12 euro per animal which in your case in 1k per year. I am not sure if they pay it if you are included in another scheme

TippNorth · 25-10-2012 07:45PM

dzer2 wrote: »

Yeah its definitely worth being BB QA about 12 euro per animal which in your case in 1k per year. I am not sure if they pay it if you are included in another scheme

Ya I was looking into it there and we seem to be complying with nearly all the requirements already , are they very strict in their audits?

dzer2 · 25-10-2012 10:04PM

TippNorth wrote: »

Ya I was looking into it there and we seem to be complying with nearly all the requirements already , are they very strict in their audits?

Nope they give about 5 days notice of calling enough time to clear up register and animal remedies if any after that its feed storage, medicine cabinet, Prescriptions and drugs matching and then a plan of the baiting you do for pest control. Its all the things you should be doing anyway.

Farmer Pudsey · 25-10-2012 10:24PM

dzer2 wrote: »

Yeah its definitely worth being BB QA about 12 euro per animal which in your case in 1k per year. I am not sure if they pay it if you are included in another scheme

It is paid on top of the AA/HEX bonus. Just make sure you herd register is in order and your medicines are recorded these are automatic failures and if any animal died that it went to a registered knackery . Health and Safety statement, baiting point for vermin, keep you ration reciepts or record in book, Farm plastic being recycled, that you have enough fodder for cattle overwintered, if storing ration that it is vermin proof etc. However unless you went down in a load of these they will not fail you

The bonus varies depending on grade and fat grade google Aberdeen angus scheme

Butcher Boy · 25-10-2012 11:12PM

we like to kill all heifers from 380 to 430 kgs,easier to sell smaler cuts of meat and less waste also. hard to beat a good black poly off a beef cow.

bob charles · 26-10-2012 01:18AM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

However unless you went down in a load of these they will not fail you

You wanna bet, things must have changed recently, Oiur herds were always top of the pops in Bord Bia's eyes (who's werent) until a few days a 'gentleman' turned up and failed one of the herds here. Also found out he failed a neighbour aswell, and my neighbour place is in the top 1% of farms and farmyards and received a top milk award in the past few years. I couldnt believe it when my neighbour told me. We got off on a bad foot when I explained the animals were on an out farm 30miles away (dont think he was getting expenses for the extra travel) so found a few more things for me to fail on and then saying it was pointless going to see the animals. I thanked him for wasting 2 hrs of my time and dont think I will be quality assured in any of the herds anymore due to a few stupid rules on the animal feed side of things

dzer2 · 26-10-2012 10:10AM

bob charles wrote: »

You wanna bet, things must have changed recently, Oiur herds were always top of the pops in Bord Bia's eyes (who's werent) until a few days a 'gentleman' turned up and failed one of the herds here. Also found out he failed a neighbour aswell, and my neighbour place is in the top 1% of farms and farmyards and received a top milk award in the past few years. I couldnt believe it when my neighbour told me. We got off on a bad foot when I explained the animals were on an out farm 30miles away (dont think he was getting expenses for the extra travel) so found a few more things for me to fail on and then saying it was pointless going to see the animals. I thanked him for wasting 2 hrs of my time and dont think I will be quality assured in any of the herds anymore due to a few stupid rules on the animal feed side of things

Yeah the first lad left a list to be done the next lad me missus knew him never had any bother since.:D Could have being the lad you got.

blue5000 · 26-10-2012 10:19AM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

50 if you are a finisher I think

Me bad, was thinking of 20 from my point of view with sucklers. If you buy them in I think they only have to be in your herd for 70 days to qualify.

blue5000 · 26-10-2012 10:25AM

bob charles wrote: »

You wanna bet, things must have changed recently, Oiur herds were always top of the pops in Bord Bia's eyes (who's werent) until a few days a 'gentleman' turned up and failed one of the herds here. Also found out he failed a neighbour aswell, and my neighbour place is in the top 1% of farms and farmyards and received a top milk award in the past few years. I couldnt believe it when my neighbour told me. We got off on a bad foot when I explained the animals were on an out farm 30miles away (dont think he was getting expenses for the extra travel) so found a few more things for me to fail on and then saying it was pointless going to see the animals. I thanked him for wasting 2 hrs of my time and dont think I will be quality assured in any of the herds anymore due to a few stupid rules on the animal feed side of things

Is there any appeal system if you fail? I suppose they have to be seen failing a few people now and again. The quality bonus must be worth a few grand to you bob in a year. I'm not in it as all I've been slaughtering is cull cows atm.

Farmer Pudsey · 26-10-2012 11:25AM

bob charles wrote: »

You wanna bet, things must have changed recently, Oiur herds were always top of the pops in Bord Bia's eyes (who's werent) until a few days a 'gentleman' turned up and failed one of the herds here. Also found out he failed a neighbour aswell, and my neighbour place is in the top 1% of farms and farmyards and received a top milk award in the past few years. I couldnt believe it when my neighbour told me. We got off on a bad foot when I explained the animals were on an out farm 30miles away (dont think he was getting expenses for the extra travel) so found a few more things for me to fail on and then saying it was pointless going to see the animals. I thanked him for wasting 2 hrs of my time and dont think I will be quality assured in any of the herds anymore due to a few stupid rules on the animal feed side of things

That is tough Bob the inspectors are independant contractors. Now I do know that Board Bia are pushing inspectors to fail so many herds. The Milk companies are up in arms with board bia over it for new milk approval scheme.

However never say never I get on to whatever factory that you deal the most with (the one paying the Board Bia Bill). It looks down the line as if there may be a right price gap open up. Tell the factory what your impression was of what the inspector did. It is important that as farmers that we never let fella's away with thing like that as it could be me or PatQ next week. Board Bia need to cop on a little the amount of crap/work they throw onto the inspectors is massive and TBH the get a set fee/farm and have to log in and out of your farm. I had a lad have to come back 50 miles to get a signature that he forgot and it is a messy process signing on an Iphone.

bob charles · 26-10-2012 11:47AM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

That is tough Bob the inspectors are independant contractors. Now I do know that Board Bia are pushing inspectors to fail so many herds. The Milk companies are up in arms with board bia over it for new milk approval scheme.

However never say never I get on to whatever factory that you deal the most with (the one paying the Board Bia Bill). It looks down the line as if there may be a right price gap open up. Tell the factory what your impression was of what the inspector did. It is important that as farmers that we never let fella's away with thing like that as it could be me or PatQ next week. Board Bia need to cop on a little the amount of crap/work they throw onto the inspectors is massive and TBH the get a set fee/farm and have to log in and out of your farm. I had a lad have to come back 50 miles to get a signature that he forgot and it is a messy process signing on an Iphone.

Well I had never heard of someone fail before me, considering we had a bord bia inspection for a different herd 2 months and got full marks. When I asked him a couple of questions he hadnt a clue and said one of my feed products could disqualify me from being a member full stop (feedstuff licenced by Dept of Ag:rolleyes:). Then he asked asked was about a farm to farm trade on grain and was the grain grower assured. I asked him when I buy grain from a merchant how the hell am I supposed to know if its assured grain he is using in his rations:rolleyes:. From the minute he came into the yard we just didnt hit it off. I couldnt lay my hand on a past assurance book so he was crying foul

Sending Cattle to the Factory - How it all Works?

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