Sexist Advertising of Halloween Ball

py2006 · 23-10-2012 03:30PM

If women choose to dress sexy at Halloween than that's their choice. I don't see you complaining about the male underwear in the ad!

Urizen · 23-10-2012 03:36PM

Hawnshand Redemption wrote: »

the amount of ignorent people in this thread shocks and apalls me. i can't believe in this day and age that these attitudes are still so prevelent.
I thought bringing this topic to peoples attention would help deal with the issue, not showcase peoples ignorence and spark debates about dictionary definitions of words. I also can't help but notice that the majority the people defending it are male, writing the whole thing off as a bit of crack, but it isnt. we need to put a stop to this sort of thing.

You want to talk ignorance? The individual who wrote this poster is female. You accused men of doing it with no basis for that statement. That is sexism. Pot, kettle, black.

I never said it was the most appropriate word to use, but it's utterly ridiculous that anyone would get so worked up over absolutely nothing.

We do need to put a stop to it. It IS an outdated mindset. So why, pray tell, did you bring it up?

And are you really saying that a man's opinion matters less in this conversation? Because sexist remarks go both ways, as I've already mentioned. Really, men have more right to be offended at this stage, since the groundless accusations were directed at us.

Sexism is not some shield to protect women. It is to protect all genders. That's what equality is. Please, don't discriminate.

lithiumoxide · 23-10-2012 03:40PM

py2006 wrote: »

If women choose to dress sexy at Halloween than that's their choice. I don't see you complaining about the male underwear in the ad!

The problem isn't underwear on the poster or women wearing whatever they want. The problem is promoting the sexual objectification of people - men or women. The word 'slut' still has very negative connotations; is it right that the SU are encouraging people to embody that negative and objectified image?

I'm sure men and women at the Ball will dress up in all sorts of sexy outfits, and more power to them (*prods beer belly*)! No doubt it'll be a fantastic night all round.

shortie_chik · 23-10-2012 03:42PM

Hawnshand Redemption wrote: »

Originally Posted by polkabunny
As a girl in a computing course, the only issue I take with this entire thread is the statement by OP. I would like to call on OP not to wax lyrical about sexism in advertising, and then say something so blatantly idiotic.

how is what i have said untrue? I have a friend who does CA and she has complained that she can't work in the labs because of all the guys who bother her for no other reason then she's a girl. this kind of attitude does nothing to help the problem.

To be fair, this isn't the university's fault. Most of these guys probably learned how to socialise (or otherwise!) with girls in secondary school environments; maybe this is where they should be taught how to behave

I've been a female in the DCU CA labs and there was plenty of distracting flirting in our labs, but it's a two-way street! I'd imagine it's the same in any computer lab / science lab / language lab / other workshop in any IT / university around the world.

Konata · 23-10-2012 03:43PM

Hawnshand Redemption warned - calling everyone on thread 'ignorant' is not any way to put forward a good argument. I've already warned about personal abuse on thread so no more please.

who_me · 23-10-2012 03:54PM

lithiumoxide wrote: »

The problem isn't underwear on the poster or women wearing whatever they want. The problem is promoting the sexual objectification of people - men or women. The word 'slut' still has very negative connotations; is it right that the SU are encouraging people to embody that negative and objectified image?

I'm sure men and women at the Ball will dress up in all sorts of sexy outfits, and more power to them (*prods beer belly*)! No doubt it'll be a fantastic night all round.

The thing is - they're not calling anyone/everyone a 'slut'. They're inviting anyone who's interested to - voluntarily - take part in dressing up in sluttish clothing, almost like roleplay. For my dim memories of my college days, a lot of people liked that kind of thing as a laugh.

Now, if they'd said "Come to the ball, there'll be lots of sluts" it might be quite different. But I have a hard job seeing who should be offended by the marketing as-is.

Ashashi · 23-10-2012 04:00PM

Hawshand you really seem like you are here, the right use of the term, to cause a fuss. The SU have apologised for this, there was a mistake in the poster and it has been rectified. What I meant by I fear for your sister is that you are willing to hamper her further education over something as frivolous as a mistake in a poster.

polkabunny · 23-10-2012 04:30PM

Hawnshand Redemption wrote: »

how is what i have said untrue? I have a friend who does CA and she has complained that she can't work in the labs because of all the guys who bother her for no other reason then she's a girl. this kind of attitude does nothing to help the problem

So in other words, because a girl that you know got attention from some boys in labs? I fail to see how this has any stance on your earlier statement. Here it is, in case you've forgotten it.

Hawnshand Redemption wrote: »

Girls are afraid to do computer and engineering courses and this doesn't help if the college has this attitude.

Stop crying sexism because some boys decided that they wanted to try and talk to somebody they found attractive, or just somebody new. It happens everywhere. It doesn't necessarily happen because of her gender.
If your friend doesn't want to be bothered, tell her to plug in her headphones and turn them up, or politely ask them to leave her alone so she can do her work. She's not helpless you know.
Do not try and use one person's experience to try and insinuate DCU is a sexist university. The actual thought of you trying to say that DCU is a backwards, sexist place where women are oppressed and afraid is hilarious though.

Cavehill Red · 23-10-2012 09:12PM

Konata · 23-10-2012 09:17PM

Cavehill Red warned for making an unhelpful contribution to the thread.

Cavehill Red · 23-10-2012 09:26PM

So sorry. I couldn't find an image that said 'professionally offended' or 'seeking to needlessly cause trouble and erroneously and maliciously accuse students union staff of sexism where none exists'.
I'll try harder next time.
Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for the OP to 'dignify me with a response' and explain how this poster is sexist against women when it has a pair of male underpants on it.

supine · 23-10-2012 09:36PM

As a man who, in the interest of equality, initiated the first Ladies Championship in the history of the Go-Karting Society I am using this thread to declare my disgust at the sexism that is evident in the SU's decision of the awards on offer.

Even with the corrected use of "Sexiest" instead of "Sluttiest", the implication is still surely there that a female will be awarded this prize. I think it is a disgrace in this day and age that girls at the event can win all 4 events but it is heavily implied that boys can only win 3 events. Is a man only 3/4 the value of a woman? "If you prick us, do we not bleed?"

I look forward to the event where I expect to see an amendment to the awards whereby the singular "Sexiest dressed" will be replaced by "Sexiest female costume" and also "Sluttiest male costume". If this amendment doesn't take place, and a female wins the award for "Sexiest dressed", I will have no hesitation in raising this opportunity with the relevant authorities.

phantom_lord · 23-10-2012 09:39PM

zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Konata · 23-10-2012 10:07PM

FINAL WARNING: If yous have nothing constructive to add to the thread, please say nothing at all.

This is a discussion and unhelpful posts like the one above add nothing to that.

nua domhan · 23-10-2012 11:38PM

Konata wrote: »

FINAL WARNING: If yous have nothing constructive to add to the thread, please say nothing at all.

This is a discussion and unhelpful posts like the one above add nothing to that.

yous isn't a word.

stmol32 · 23-10-2012 11:41PM

Hawnshand Redemption wrote: »

My sister is a independant woman, she can do what she likes

This was actually a bit of satire but now that I've read a few more of your posts I'm wondering if she really is allowed to make her own decisions.

I have to say you're coming across as quite controlling and humourless so even though I agree with your original point I think I'll stop following this thread.

Konata · 23-10-2012 11:43PM

nua domhan wrote: »

yous isn't a word.

What has that got to do with anything?

Also, not a constructive response therefore nua domhan has been infracted for ignoring mod instructions.

nbar12 · 23-10-2012 11:52PM

I had no idea about the Halloween ball until Hawnshand Redemption started complaining about it. I can safely say I'll be going as the biggest man slut possible

dorkacle · 24-10-2012 12:17AM

supine wrote: »

As a man who, in the interest of equality, initiated the first Ladies Championship in the history of the Go-Karting Society I am using this thread to declare my disgust at the sexism that is evident in the SU's decision of the awards on offer.

Even with the corrected use of "Sexiest" instead of "Sluttiest", the implication is still surely there that a female will be awarded this prize. I think it is a disgrace in this day and age that girls at the event can win all 4 events but it is heavily implied that boys can only win 3 events. Is a man only 3/4 the value of a woman? "If you prick us, do we not bleed?"

I look forward to the event where I expect to see an amendment to the awards whereby the singular "Sexiest dressed" will be replaced by "Sexiest female costume" and also "Sluttiest male costume". If this amendment doesn't take place, and a female wins the award for "Sexiest dressed", I will have no hesitation in raising this opportunity with the relevant authorities.

This is probably the best post in response to whole thread. +1

I think in many ways men can get the short end of the stick in all areas of life, however in general we don't seem to get all worked up about it an scream 'SEXISM' as often as women do.

I bet the OP doesn't complain when she and her group of girl friends get preferential treatment when entering a night club over the group of lads who probably got refused before them or had to pay in simply because they are male... And this kind of thing happens on a daily basis around town.

So sorry a light hearted poster for a Halloween fancy dress has insulted you....

EDIT: And I regularly call my male friends 'sluts', and deservedly so in a couple of cases!

Hawnshand Redemption · 24-10-2012 02:28PM

stmol32 wrote:

I have to say you're coming across as quite controlling and humourless so even though I agree with your original point I think I'll stop following this thread.

if all you're going to do is insult me instead of contributing to the discussion then thats probably for the best.

polkabunny wrote:

Do not try and use one person's experience to try and insinuate DCU is a sexist university. The actual thought of you trying to say that DCU is a backwards, sexist place where women are oppressed and afraid is hilarious though.

You asked for an example and I gave you 1 - there are plenty more. I know some other folk in CA who have a running joke makingfun of one of their female lecturers just because she had the gall to be pregnant. I had some classes in the CA lab in first year and I remember an ocasion when a group in network society hoodies in the corner were playing games on their laptop and casually throwing offensive sexual terminology aboutIn a full lab with 40% females. Is that acceptable?

I don't mean to single out CA, this is likely a problem with any male dominated industry, but to pretend it isn't there or to suggest that women should just "toughen up" is not good enough.

Urizen wrote: »

We do need to put a stop to it. It IS an outdated mindset. So why, pray tell, did you bring it up?

You really beleive the solution to noticing sexism is to ignore it? Is that honestly what you think? you're either trolling or you're just incredibly naive.

Urizen wrote: »

And are you really saying that a man's opinion matters less in this conversation? Because sexist remarks go both ways, as I've already mentioned. Really, men have more right to be offended at this stage, since the groundless accusations were directed at us.

Sexism is not some shield to protect women. It is to protect all genders. That's what equality is. Please, don't discriminate.

I had to peer through your appalling grammer to get to what you're actually saying, but you're really clutching at straws here. Your logic is on the level of "i know you are but what am i?". you came into this thread trying to defend the SU for what was on the poster. Now you find that they've accepted it was a mistake, apologised and retracted the offending poster. I've seen the reaction on facebook and eslwhere and I know the Equality Officer has also accepted it was an error and has been offering to meet people. Everyone responsible has acknowledge the problem and taken steps to move forward so why can't you? This is tragic.

dorkacle wrote:

I bet the OP doesn't complain when she and her group of girl friends get preferential treatment when entering a night club over the group of lads who probably got refused before them or had to pay in simply because they are male... And this kind of thing happens on a daily basis around town.

FYI, I'm male. I think your assumption that I woudl have to be female to take offense at the poster says all that needs to be said here.

the SU's response has largely convinced me that it was a genuine error and Im willing to give them the benefit of the dought, but some of the posts here have exposed that there is a larger issue in the college among the students.

Urizen · 24-10-2012 03:07PM

Hawnshand Redemption wrote: »

You really beleive the solution to noticing sexism is to ignore it? Is that honestly what you think? you're either trolling or you're just incredibly naive.

I had to peer through your appalling grammer to get to what you're actually saying, but you're really clutching at straws here. Your logic is on the level of "i know you are but what am i?". you came into this thread trying to defend the SU for what was on the poster. Now you find that they've accepted it was a mistake, apologised and retracted the offending poster. I've seen the reaction on facebook and eslwhere, and I know the Equality Officer has also accepted it was an error and has been offering to meet people. Everyone responsible has acknowledge the problem and taken steps to move forward, so why can't you? This is tragic.

You're not even making sense anymore. And you're insulting my grammar (which was actually fine), something widely accepted as the second worst argument ever, while making at least 8 mistakes yourself in the very post correcting me? Poor show.

You have nothing more to say that interests me. It's like watching a poisoned fly in its death throes, lashing out at anything to try to make their last moments meaningful. I'm out.

Best of luck in all your endeavours. And please, never enter politics.

dorkacle · 24-10-2012 05:00PM

Hawnshand Redemption wrote: »

FYI, I'm male. I think your assumption that I woudl have to be female to take offense at the poster says all that needs to be said here.

the SU's response has largely convinced me that it was a genuine error and Im willing to give them the benefit of the dought, but some of the posts here have exposed that there is a larger issue in the college among the students.

I really don't understand your issue here at all to be honest. The fact that you feel the need to stand up and wave your sexism banner for women says a lot also...

I think women can decide where an when they feel sexism or derogatory terms are being used to their own detriment and point it out for themselves. By all accounts they already do. Why do you as a man feel the need to do it for them? Particularly if there hasn't been much complaint in the first place?

I also still think my point stands that in general men don't broadcast such 'injustices' in the same regard, whilst it happens on a daily basis. There may however be a multitude of reasons for this.

Also, I agree that you can't criticise grammar if your own is pretty terrible in the first place. :rolleyes:

Tree · 24-10-2012 05:47PM

An apology by one female member of the SU reflects poorly on the SU. The union as a body should take responsibility for the mistake, which presumably didn't appear from thin air (sexiest to soxiest is a type, sexiest to sluttiest is a larger miscommunication). As well as it appearing to be an "honest mistake", the use of a woman's name specifically has undertones of "sure this girl thinks it's grand, it can't be offensive to women".

If men feel hard done by because they can't buy tampons, or because they won't increase the number of libidinous males at a nightclub and dont get preferential treatment, or are pissed off that they are more likely to get jobs and be forced to work becuase they wont be on maternity leave, THEN RAISE YOUR VOICES AND SUPPORT WOMEN. Sexism against women affects men, most of you are probably too young to appreciate it just yet, but just think about it.

This complaint has been raised by many people with a number of officials in DCU up to and including the president's office. So while it might be a frivolous thing to some, it is regarded very seriously by people who are working to encourage women into education and to generally take a more visible role in society as leaders and not just eye candy.

py2006 · 24-10-2012 05:52PM

Tree wrote: »

If men feel hard done by because they can't buy tampons, or because they won't increase the number of libidinous males at a nightclub and dont get preferential treatment, or are pissed off that they are more likely to get jobs and be forced to work becuase they wont be on maternity leave, THEN RAISE YOUR VOICES AND SUPPORT WOMEN. Sexism against women affects men, most of you are probably too young to appreciate it just yet, but just think about it.

Utter nonsense. Dismissing male issues or certainly attempting to ridicule them is just as bad as what you are insinuating. :rolleyes:

polkabunny · 24-10-2012 06:44PM

Hawnshand Redemption wrote: »

You asked for an example and I gave you 1 - there are plenty more. I know some other folk in CA who have a running joke makingfun of one of their female lecturers just because she had the gall to be pregnant. I had some classes in the CA lab in first year and I remember an ocasion when a group in network society hoodies in the corner were playing games on their laptop and casually throwing offensive sexual terminology aboutIn a full lab with 40% females. Is that acceptable?

I don't mean to single out CA, this is likely a problem with any male dominated industry, but to pretend it isn't there or to suggest that women should just "toughen up" is not good enough.

You can't say that because of how some people acted, who are students in a course, that every single person in every single year of that same course is exactly the same.
"the gall to be pregnant"? I don't even know where to start with this. I'm going to run with the fact that it was a joke. As much as you don't like it, jokes will be made about anything and everything. I'm sure that you realise as well as I do that just because they were joking about it, does not mean that they resent her for being a pregnant woman.
As with regards to the networking society, I'm on the committee for this society. People can say some horribly inappropriate things as a joke, this doesn't necessarily have to be the members of said society. However, you don't see what abuse the lads get in return. We are not all helpless females sitting there blushing at the terrible things the men are saying, while we try to wrap our frivolous heads around computing.
You might say, don't say toughen up. But if you don't find some way of dealing with people in life, you're not going to have a fun life.

My issue with you is the fact that you're still clinging to that sexism is alive and kicking in DCU, and more specifically in computing and engineering courses. And those who are in these courses are wee, scared girleens. Talk to most girls in computing and engineering, they might be timid, a bi shy, a bit socially awkward - but they most certainly are not scared.

Tree · 24-10-2012 07:17PM

polkabunny wrote: »

You can't say that because of how some people acted, who are students in a course, that every single person in every single year of that same course is exactly the same.
"the gall to be pregnant"? I don't even know where to start with this. I'm going to run with the fact that it was a joke. As much as you don't like it, jokes will be made about anything and everything. I'm sure that you realise as well as I do that just because they were joking about it, does not mean that they resent her for being a pregnant woman.
As with regards to the networking society, I'm on the committee for this society. People can say some horribly inappropriate things as a joke, this doesn't necessarily have to be the members of said society. However, you don't see what abuse the lads get in return. We are not all helpless females sitting there blushing at the terrible things the men are saying, while we try to wrap our frivolous heads around computing.
You might say, don't say toughen up. But if you don't find some way of dealing with people in life, you're not going to have a fun life.

My issue with you is the fact that you're still clinging to that sexism is alive and kicking in DCU, and more specifically in computing and engineering courses. And those who are in these courses are wee, scared girleens. Talk to most girls in computing and engineering, they might be timid, a bi shy, a bit socially awkward - but they most certainly are not scared.

Sexism IS alive and well in DCU, sure just have a read back off the thread.

Passing jokes about a lecturer because she is pregnant, well, that's not really on. I have in my time heard people complaining that lecturers have become pregnant and gone on maternity leave, this isnt acceptable either. When a lecturer has had a number of babies, this sort of commenting escalates into "you'd think she just doesnt want to work".

The networking society might be a bit less sexist face to face and take stick for it, but online sexism is in full flow on the irc channels. It is something I and others have called out in our time and have got nothing but abuse for it. I have not seen this sort of behaviour in channels populated by a majority of women or in channels where the inhabitants are long out of college. I have seen many female members become more macho to fit it, and it's not right that this has to be the way of things.

Toughen up is the wrong message to be giving women. Men should have to realise that they need to respect women, regardless of how funny it would be to make sexist comments.

py2006 · 24-10-2012 07:24PM

Tree wrote: »

Toughen up is the wrong message to be giving women. Men should have to realise that they need to respect women, regardless of how funny it would be to make sexist comments.

I think at this stage you should take this to the Ladies Lounge or Personal Issues.

Greenmachine · 24-10-2012 07:57PM

My god this thread has completely derailed. All this talk of protecting young people is claptrap. This event is being held in a venue for over 18's. This is not a disco for children. If someone is offended by the competition don't go. Simple as. This is a one off event. A poster is not going to persuade people in to a course of action. The event has not been organised to objectify women, by any stretch of the imagination. Guys and Girls generally do not need and excuse to get dressed up for halloween. For most it is an excuse to let their hair down. More than likely a number of people complaining simply have an issue with the SU, and are using this as an opportunity to raise red flags. Welcome to student life people, the propaganda machine is alive and well. The rabble rabble is getting louder.

maguic24 · 24-10-2012 10:07PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

Shur maybe she'll flash her tits while she's at it and you can skip the middleman and just tuck cash right into her waistband. :rolleyes:

"Slut" is a specifically female word, ie. it refers only to woman. It doesn't really have a male counterpart. Certainly not in English, and I'm unaware of any in other languages.

Man whore. It's totes in the dictionary.

nua domhan · 25-10-2012 01:14AM

Tree wrote: »

If men feel hard done by because they can't buy tampons, or because they won't increase the number of libidinous males at a nightclub and dont get preferential treatment, or are pissed off that they are more likely to get jobs and be forced to work becuase they wont be on maternity leave, THEN RAISE YOUR VOICES AND SUPPORT WOMEN. Sexism against women affects men, most of you are probably too young to appreciate it just yet, but just think about it.

Pretty good example of being non-sexist, non-condescending and non-stereotyping there MOD.

ps

becuase isn't a word either.

Sexist Advertising of Halloween Ball

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