Sexist Advertising of Halloween Ball

Hawnshand Redemption

Hi folks,

I don't ever post here, but without a proper student forum this seems the apropriate place to bring it up. I've already mailed the SU with my complants but I feel this deserves wider attention.

The campaign for this year's haloween ball is disturbingly sexist. I know we have an all male SU exec, but we should still expectt a higher standard then this. for many students this will be their first major college event and to be encouraged to behave in this manner is extremely inappropriate and offensive.

At a period in time where sexuality is finally starting to progress, I find this incredibly regressive and profoundly inapropriate. Girls are afraid to do computer and engineering courses and this doesn't help if the college has this attitude.

my sister was thinking of attending dcu, but i will most likely encourage her to look elsewhere now


Relevant links:
http://www.dcusu.ie/events/halloween-fancy-dress-ball-12/
https://www.facebook.com/dcustudentsunion/posts/424539310942177

dukedalton

Girls are "afraid" to do computer and engineering courses? Why? Have you any evidence of this?

What's sexist about having a Halloween dress up party? Is it's the word "sluttish" that offends you in the ad?

Attol

There are prizes for the sluttiest costume. I think that's pretty sexist and backwards tbh.

super_furry

Huh? How can having a 'sluttiest dressed' competition be anything but sexist?

Duddy

Good of you to bring attention to it, another common theme within today's society is that women who go against the lad-culture are called overly sensitive bra-burning feminist lesbians (which is a bad thing, apparently)

Your likely response (although maybe not the official response) will be something along the lines of "it doesn't say it has to be a girl!", and a quick google shows that its a unisex term for one of low sexual morals.

Obviously though, its a term used almost universally for women (the male equivalent is probably "legend!!1!1!1111!!") so you still have a strong enough complaint. Best thing would be to get a petition started, or at least show that other people are offended by it.

Best of luck:)

dukedalton

Seriously lads, I'm not going to get into a huge row with people over the use of words, but honestly I think taking offense at the word "sluttish" is over the top. It's meant in jest, it's not an insult. Seriously, there are so many other (more worthy) things in the world you could spend time and energy giving out about.

In any case, in my experience of these things, most girls choose to play up to occasion and come wearing revealing paraphernalia. All part of the fun.

lithiumoxide

I was just told about this. Disgusting. I was also told that the email sent by the SU expressly said female?

super_furry

I'd imagine its more rating and judging women on how slutty they look rather than the word is the issue.

jill_valentine

dukedalton wrote: »

Girls are "afraid" to do computer and engineering courses? Why? Have you any evidence of this?

Not the OP, but I studied Computer Science for a bit and female students were outnumbered about 10:1 on my course and one of our lecturers routinely made life tougher for us than for our counterparts.

"Slut" is a perfectly valid thing to get cranky about. Honestly, nobody should have to have the reasons why spelled out in this day and age.

Tree

Aye, I'm pretty annoyed about it also. Have emailed the SU, and also sent an email to the equality office to see if they can have any say in the matter.

To say it's all a bit of fun and sure can't the boys win really ignores the point. Willfully encouraging young people to be slutty is the wrong message to be sending. People who want to dress "sluttilly" are more than welcome to, and if they win best prize because they ahve a good costume, grand. Actively promoting "sluttiness" is unacceptable, how would you feel if you (or your daughter) won such a competition? Would you be putting it on your CV?

Tree

Tree wrote: »

how would you feel if you (or your daughter) won such a competition? Would you be putting it on your CV?

I'd be annoyed at her for entering that category of the contest. I don't imagine many people put something their kids do on their CV.

helloyeshi

Attol wrote: »

There are prizes for the sluttiest costume. I think that's pretty sexist and backwards tbh.

I don't see where it picks a sex for the sluttiest costume. It makes no distinction to whether or not it's sluttiest male/female/alpaca...

jill_valentine

helloyeshi wrote: »

I don't see where it picks a sex for the sluttiest costume. It makes no distinction to whether or not it's sluttiest male/female/alpaca...

That's a reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally disingenuous feint, come on now.

shortie_chik

Hawnshand Redemption wrote: »

At a period in time where sexuality is finally starting to progress, I find this incredibly regressive and profoundly inapropriate. Girls are afraid to do computer and engineering courses and this doesn't help if the college has this attitude.
my sister was thinking of attending dcu, but i will most likely encourage her to look elsewhere now

I spent 10 years in DCU, in the School of Computer Science, as an undergrad, postgrad and staff member (I don't work there anymore), and the university does not have a regressive & inappropriate attitude towards women. They're at pains to point out how equal opportunities & progressive they are (and to be fair, they do make every effort for balance etc).

Your issue is with the organisers / promoters of this event. The SU needs to be resourceful enough to organise a good events programme, and hopefully have enough cop on to do it responsibly. :rolleyes: Maybe they think it's just a bit of craic to request (most likely) women to dress in their sluttiest costumes, but I think you'd be within reason to complain about this. I can guarantee the :rolleyes: reaction when they receive a letter from some ould crank but if you actually have the motivation to complain, go for it. I'd probably just tut about it to my friends & then wait for the posters to disappear next week, but I'm shockingly apathetic sometimes.

Yes, there will be plenty of girls who wear lingerie+bunny-ears type costumes & good luck to them if that's what they choose (like they've walked straight out of Mean Girls :P) but I do think it's inappropriate to try to encourage girls who are comfortable enough to dress like this to try to ramp it up. There'll likely be girls who'll end up in outfits they're not really comfortable in, to try to fit in better.

Finally, please don't discourage your sister from going to DCU over this fairly trivial issue. Sure it's not perfect, but it's a great university & if they have the "best" course in her area of interest, that's surely more important than moronic events posters? It'll be a different SU team next year anyway!

Cavehill Red

Hawnshand Redemption wrote: »

my sister was thinking of attending dcu, but i will most likely encourage her to look elsewhere now

Her area of interest is first world problems, I assume?

stmol32

Hawnshand Redemption wrote: »

my sister was thinking of attending dcu, but i will most likely encourage her to look elsewhere now

You should forbid her from attending DCU.

Konata

Changed the thread title as the original was slightly inappropriate.

Just a word of warning in advance to keep this thread on topic and also to avoid personal abuse etc. etc.

Urizen

Huh. So Sarah Flanagan, our Science & Health Convenor, and Lorna Finnegan , our Clubs Officer, are both men now? News to everyone except you apparently, I'm sure they'll be most surprised of all. Maybe research FACTS before posting, as our Executive has two female members.

I was going to be polite, but I'll be blunt; it's Hallowe'en. Have a bloody sense of humour about it, they mean no offense and you damn well know it. Or you would, but you evidently didn't even know that there were women on Exec. You're also jumping to conclusions about the whole thing, almost as though you were TRYING to find something to be annoyed about. This kind of complaint is political correctness gone mad, and I for one have no intention of indulging it.

Have some perspective, use common sense, etc. There's no point in arguing, you've clearly made up your mind on the matter. But in my opinion, it's looking for discrimination that simply isn't there.

carlowboy

What about the lads who want to dress real slutty? A bit sexist of the OP to leave out lads?

nua domhan

Tree wrote: »

To say it's all a bit of fun and sure can't the boys win really ignores the point. Willfully encouraging young people to be slutty is the wrong message to be sending. People who want to dress "sluttilly" are more than welcome to, and if they win best prize because they ahve a good costume, grand. Actively promoting "sluttiness" is unacceptable, how would you feel if you (or your daughter) won such a competition? Would you be putting it on your CV?

Why? Isn't the sexual liberation of women part of the drive to equality? I assume you also emailed the organisers of this...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SlutWalk complaining that they shouldn't be encouraging young people to dress slutty,
and I'll assume you also spend your time writing into "Loose women" and the writers of "Sex and the City"?

Attol

carlowboy wrote: »

What about the lads who want to dress real slutty? A bit sexist of the OP to leave out lads?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/slut?s=t

slut
noun
1.
an immoral or dissolute woman; prostitute.
2.
Obsolete . a dirty, slovenly woman.

jill_valentine

nua domhan wrote: »

Why? Isn't the sexual liberation of women part of the drive to equality? I assume you also emailed the organisers of this...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SlutWalk complaining that they shouldn't be encouraging young people to dress slutty,
and I'll assume you also spend your time writing into "Loose women" and the writers of "Sex and the City"?

When there's a "dress as a rent boy" equivalent, and everybody takes it for granted, the equality argument will fly. Not a moment before then.

The purpose of the slutwalk is an attempt to decouple the concept of how a girl dresses and her value as a human being. Competitions for "who can dress the sluttiest" are born of literally the opposite thought process.

Lawliet

Urizen wrote: »

I was going to be polite, but I'll be blunt; it's Hallowe'en. Have a bloody sense of humour about it, they mean no offense and you damn well know it.

Have a sense of humour? About what? I'm being genuine here I don't see the joke. I see "Hey girls, dress in a degrading way so we can call you sluts and maybe we'll give you a prize for it!"
And I don't really think that's funny, I think it's worrying and sad.

carlowboy

Lawliet wrote: »

Have a sense of humour? About what? I'm being genuine here I don't see the joke. I see "Hey girls, dress in a degrading way so we can call you sluts and maybe we'll give you a prize for it!"
And I don't really think that's funny, I think it's worrying and sad.

They don't specifically refer to women in the ad though?

Here's something you might find interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

Urizen

Lawliet wrote: »

Have a sense of humour? About what? I'm being genuine here I don't see the joke. I see "Hey girls, dress in a degrading way so we can call you sluts and maybe we'll give you a prize for it!"
And I don't really think that's funny, I think it's worrying and sad.

The only one that's mentioned girls is the OP. Neither the poster nor the SU have. Assumptions have been made, and I feel they are innacurate. I never thought that this category applied only to women. If I show up dressed as a 'rent boy', am I not dressed sluttily?

I checked 3 online dictionaries and 2 print, and not one defined 'slut' as applying only to women. It's a genderless term these days, or it should be.

AH_David

Ok, few facts just to throw out there. While members of the DCUSU Exec may know about events before other students, they don't actually have a ton of input beyond making suggestions. The booking of acts is left to the Events Coordinator Shea, who I grant you is a man, but the design of our posters is mostly dealt with by Emer, the Communications and Marketing officer, who is as her name might imply, a woman.

Sexism is virtually none existent in DCU, women occupy many high level positions and are treated as complete equals. College is one of the places where people tend to be more chilled, if you don't want to dress as a 'slut' don't. If you want to wear a skirt that barely covers your arse, go right ahead.

I for one will be going as Secret Agent 007 and ladies you can objectify for my body all night long or just laugh either is cool :P

jill_valentine

Shur maybe she'll flash her tits while she's at it and you can skip the middleman and just tuck cash right into her waistband. :rolleyes:

carlowboy wrote: »

They don't specifically refer to women in the ad though?

"Slut" is a specifically female word, ie. it refers only to woman. It doesn't really have a male counterpart. Certainly not in English, and I'm unaware of any in other languages.

Urizen

jill_valentine wrote: »

"Slut" is a specifically female word, ie. it refers only to woman. It doesn't really have a male counterpart. Certainly not in English, and I'm unaware of any in other languages.

This is untrue, look it up.

nua domhan

jill_valentine wrote: »

When there's a "dress as a rent boy" equivalent, and everybody takes it for granted, the equality argument will fly. Not a moment before then.

The purpose of the slutwalk is an attempt to decouple the concept of how a girl dresses and her value as a human being. Competitions for "who can dress the sluttiest" are born of literally the opposite thought process.

Rent boys aren't comparable in this case as they are for the most part homosexual. If they Gay Lesbian and Bisexual society threw a halloween party and they had a competition for the best dressed queen, rent boy or bear etc would you be up in arms as well?

I know what the slutwalk is and what it's about. I also know that if someone wants to dress slutty then they have that right and they shouldn't be worried about someone speaking up against it or being insulted by it on their behalf. (in effect belittling their value as you seem to think that anyone who would partake in such a competition has little self worth).

And don't come back with the argument that they are promoting slutty behaviour with the competition. That again suggests that girls are so easily swayed by prize that they're not confident in themselves as women.

nua domhan

Lawliet wrote: »

Have a sense of humour? About what? I'm being genuine here I don't see the joke. I see "Hey girls, dress in a degrading way so we can call you sluts and maybe we'll give you a prize for it!"
And I don't really think that's funny, I think it's worrying and sad.

It's only degrading if you let it be degrading. Why not look at it as a confident expression of feminism?

does dita von tease dress in a degrading way?

Cavehill Red

jill_valentine wrote: »

"Slut" is a specifically female word, ie. it refers only to woman. It doesn't really have a male counterpart. Certainly not in English, and I'm unaware of any in other languages.

There you are, people. The language police have spoken.

Wrongly as it happens.

There's this, and this, and then there's this GQ article which is sort of pertinent, in that it tells men how to dress slutty for Halloween.
And that's me playing nice by entirely ignoring the online tsunami of NSFW homosexual-themed manslut, slutboy, slutty men, boysluts and other variations of male sluts on websites, blogs and discussions out there.

Lawliet

carlowboy wrote: »

They don't specifically refer to women in the ad though?

Here's something you might find interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

Urizen wrote: »

The only one that's mentioned girls is the OP. Neither the poster nor the SU have. Assumptions have been made, and I feel they are innacurate. I never thought that this category applied only to women. If I show up in full bondage gear, as a man, am I not dressed sluttily?

I checked 3 online dictionaries and 2 print, and not one defined 'slut' as applying only to women. It's a genderless term these days, or it should be.

The word slut has never been genderless, it was always a word used to refer to women, initially to dirty, unkept women, then later it became a word to describe promiscuous women. Even 'these days' it's not common for men to be called sluts, and it's certainly never a word that's seriously applied to them. And I think everyone realizes that.

Edit: All those articles Cavehill Red posted use phrases like "man slut" and 'slutty things for dudes because if we don't clarify we're talking about men you'll assume we're talking about women which is what the word usually refers to'
I rest my case.

jill_valentine

Urizen wrote: »

This is untrue, look it up.

...

A woman prostitute.

A dirty, slovenly woman.

By the end of the 15th century the sense “a woman given to immoral or improper conduct” had come into use, and it is the only meaning in use today.

A woman who sleeps with many men.

A woman considered sexually promiscuous.

An immoral woman

A woman who has many casual sexual partners.

An insulting word for a woman whose sexual behavior is considered immoral

A promiscuous woman; especially : prostitute

Slut hasn't been genderless since Chaucer's day.

I've heard it qualified as "man slut", but I've never heard anybody refer to a man as a slut without the understanding of a gendered charge for humorous effect. Don't play dumb, I don't believe for one second that you believe otherwise - if you use the word "slut", in isolation, nobody in your company will think you could mean a male or a female equally.

Urizen

Lawliet wrote: »

The word slut has never been genderless, it was always a word used to refer to women, initially to dirty, unkept women, then later it became a word to describe promiscuous women. Even 'these days' it's not common for men to be called sluts, and it's certainly never a word that's seriously applied to them. And I think everyone realizes that.

That initial definition, as it happens, hails from 1402. Think it's time we accepted the update.

I have always used that word, myself, for both men and women (admittedly, almost always in jest). The only ones that I have seen keeping it on in the original, archaic definition are those who either don't know enough to know better, or those who want to fight over it.

As any of the dictionary definitions posted will show you, the term is applied to both sexes. Yes, more so women, I won't argue that. But it's not a female only term.

And if you still claim that there's no male equivalent, then I demand one, on behalf of all men. Otherwise it's just being sexist that we don't get one too :P

Jill_Valentine, I recognise those fragments, and I know they aren't the full definitions. I have both the OED and Penguin in front of me.

Moreover, if you don't want to say it's genderless now, let's stop arguing semantics about the whole thing and MAKE IT GENDERLESS.

Cavehill Red

Lawliet wrote: »

those articles Cavehill Red posted use phrases like "man slut" and 'slutty things for dudes because if we don't clarify we're talking about men you'll assume we're talking about women which is what the word usually refers to'
I rest my case.

With legal skillz like that, for your own sake don't ever set foot anywhere near a courtroom!
If I say the word 'shoe' do we assume that it always refers to women's footwear unless otherwise specified? No, we do not. We recognise that men, children, horses and quite a few inanimate objects also wear shoes and context defines the meaning.
Similarly here. Female sluts were not specified. Neither were male sluts. Therefore slutty activity is being encouraged by the DCU Ents team among everyone. And hurrah for that. I'd have thought the innate equity of it all would please you.

AH_David

jill_valentine:

you are also implying that being a slut or sleeping with many partners is a bad thing.
I would have thought that in this modern age we would be more accepting of a promiscuous lifestyle.

jill_valentine

AH_David wrote: »

jill_valentine:

you are also implying that being a slut or sleeping with many partners is a bad thing.
I would have thought that in this modern age we would be more accepting of a promiscuous lifestyle.

I have no problem with promiscuity, absolutely none. I'm all for it. More of it, I say. Lashings of it for all, and I mean that sincerely.

I have a problem with the particular charge of the word "slut", however, and the unequal attitude towards sexual promiscuity that's built into it. I'm sorry, trying to pretend that word isn't gendered with a straight face - or for our purposes, isn't intended to be gendered by DCUSU - it an intellectually dishonest attempt to win semantic points. And the accessories used to represent female costumes on the DCUSU website don't really have your back on that one, I'm afraid.

leddpipe

as if girls need encouragement to dress like sluts for Halloween!

AH_David

jill_valentine wrote: »

I have no problem with promiscuity, absolutely none. I'm all for it. More of it, I say. Lashings of it for all, and I mean that sincerely.

If you don't have a problem with promiscuity what's the issue? Do you honestly think putting the word 'slut' on a poster or having a 'Sluttiest Costume Contest' is going to pressure girls into wearing a more slutty costume than they're comfortable with.
Most people don't even read these things, all they do when they see the poster is check the date and the price.

Ruen

nua domhan wrote: »

It's only degrading if you let it be degrading.

Ahhh so the victim of degradation is actually at fault, if they just accepted it there wouldn't be a problem.

Mech1

GET OVER IT, 2013 BECONS.Miss Valentine.

nua domhan

Ruen wrote: »

Ahhh so the victim of degradation is actually at fault, if they just accepted it there wouldn't be a problem.

no, you've missed the point entirely, it's not about acceptance of other peoples values but being confident in your own. The same way as the slutwalk takes away any degradation of the word by empowerment is the same way Rosa Parks refused to be discriminated by giving up her seat. They didn't let someone else's ideas impose on them.

Some people will always have their prejudices, whether it's thinking that a girl dressed provocatively is easy or one in a cardigan is frigid (which i think is a worse word than slut). It's judging people by their appearance is wrong.

In fact, your belief that anyone dressed provocatively is degrading themselves is belittling their choice to behave as they want to.

the_syco

Hawnshand Redemption wrote: »

Using the word "sluttiest" in a poster will encourage the lads to come in the hope of seeing a girl in a "slutty" outfit.

Having a prize for the "sluttiest" costume will encourage girls (who'd come to the ball anyway) to come dressed pleasing on the eye.

Ruen

nua domhan wrote: »

no, you've missed the point entirely, it's not about acceptance of other peoples values but being confident in your own. The same way as the slutwalk takes away any degradation of the word by empowerment is the same way Rosa Parks refused to be discriminated by giving up her seat. They didn't let someone else's ideas impose on them.

Some people will always have their prejudices, whether it's thinking that a girl dressed provocatively is easy or one in a cardigan is frigid (which i think is a worse word than slut). It's judging people by their appearance is wrong.

In fact, your belief that anyone dressed provocatively is degrading themselves is belittling their choice to behave as they want to.

That is not my belief.

It's inappropriate for the staff who run the SU on our behalves to start evaluating the female students and determining who is a slut when not everyone might enjoy such an honour being bestowed on them.

Cavehill Red

the_syco wrote: »

Using the word "sluttiest" in a poster will encourage the lads to come in the hope of seeing a girl in a "slutty" outfit.

Or encourage girls to come in the hope of seeing a lad in a 'slutty' outfit.

the_syco wrote: »

Having a prize for the "sluttiest" costume will encourage girls (who'd come to the ball anyway) to come dressed pleasing on the eye.

Or encourage fellas to come dressed pleasing to (hetero) girls' eyes.

Why are you being so sexist?

Depp

get a grip...its a light hearted and effective attempt to publicise an event...and it'l more than likely work wonders...no need to go all martyr on it... horrendous overreaction

Ruen

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Or encourage girls to come in the hope of seeing a lad in a 'slutty' outfit.



Or encourage fellas to come dressed pleasing to (hetero) girls' eyes.

Why are you being so sexist?

Most people don't actually perceive every single thing as gender neutral like you seem to.
The sluttiest costume prize is for women. Your rigid gender neutral view of everything is what precludes you from understanding the difference between a man and a woman being called a slut, you won't understand it but most people know the difference.

Cavehill Red

Ruen wrote: »

Most people don't actually perceive every single thing as gender neutral like you seem to.
The sluttiest costume prize is for women.

The rigid mindset is yours. YOU are the one superimposing and dictating limitations to what the poster's text means that it doesn't actually say. The last sentence above is factually incorrect and demonstrably wrong.
Let me cut to the chase here - which gender's underwear is depicted on the poster?

Konata

Mech1 wrote: »

GET OVER IT, 2013 BECONS.Miss Valentine.

Caps lock is unnecessary. Please only post constructive responses.

allygatore

I'm an International student and a girl, and I'm not so shocked about the world slutty.
In my country, we also organise party with the sluttiest costume and even if I think this word is more sexist in my own language, I have never been shocked and I know I will never participate in that kind of elections. That is sure that you will never be elected if you are not dressed in a very special way, so I don't think you have a risk to go if you don't wanna be elected, just dress up in a funny way.
My country is mostly more sexist than yours, we don't have an equality officer or a LGBT society, maybe that's why I'm not so shocked.

Nanaki

Does anyone else remember the night there were strippers in the old bar a few years ago? It was probably the busiest night they had all year.