Alex Ferguson on Ferdinand and Roberts

Dempsey · 22-10-2012 01:13PM

Everton: Victor Anichebe, Sylvain Distin, Steven Pienaar
QPR: Anton Ferdinand, Djibril Cisse, Shaun Wright-Phillips, Nedum Onouha and Junior Hoilett
Man City: Micah Richards, Joleon Lescott
Man Utd: Rio Ferdinand
Reading: Jason Roberts
Stoke: Kenwyne Jones
Swansea: All players
Wigan: All players

Thats the amount of players that didnt wear the t-shirt at the weekend yet everyone here is fixated on Ferguson making a fool of himself with Roberts & Ferdinand. Ferdinand has a basic human right to protest this regardless of what Ferguson thinks should happen, expects should happen and just has to accept that he misjudged the situation completely.

jacool · 22-10-2012 01:19PM

Dempsey wrote: »

Thats the amount of players that didnt wear the t-shirt at the weekend yet everyone here is fixated on Ferguson making a fool of himself with Roberts & Ferdinand. Ferdinand has a basic human right to protest this regardless of what Ferguson thinks should happen, expects should happen and just has to accept that he misjudged the situation completely.

Perhaps they are "fixated" because they read the thread title!

Dempsey · 22-10-2012 01:25PM

jacool wrote: »

Perhaps they are "fixated" because they read the thread title!

True but the wider context is several players across several clubs protested this, for their own reasons, and they didnt get chastised by Ferguson, their own managers or any other manager in the EPL

22-10-2012 01:59PM

Dempsey wrote: »

Thats the amount of players that didnt wear the t-shirt at the weekend yet everyone here is fixated on Ferguson making a fool of himself with Roberts & Ferdinand. Ferdinand has a basic human right to protest this regardless of what Ferguson thinks should happen, expects should happen and just has to accept that he misjudged the situation completely.

Fergie was the only manager that criticised his own player though. Not to mention comenting on a player from another team when clearly it's none of his business.

aidan24326 · 22-10-2012 01:59PM

I think in the cold light of day Ferguson WOULD respect a person's right to choose or to protest if they felt strongly about something.

But this is more about Fergie the bully, the Sir Alex who thinks of himself as dictator as much as manager. It's my way or the highway. Other managers have come out in support of their players so it seems to me that Ferguson's ego has been dented here, that one of his underlings had the temerity to challenge his unquestiond, almighty authority.

Ashbourne hoop · 22-10-2012 02:07PM

I think it's very sad that there is even a racism debate in 2012.

The_Kew_Tour · 22-10-2012 02:35PM

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

I think it's very sad that there is even a racism debate in 2012.

Dont expect much to change in 2022 or 2032 or even 2052 for that matter.

Like any hatred there will always be some element there.

Pro. F · 22-10-2012 02:43PM

Ferguson has made a complete fool of himself with this episode. He has been completely in the wrong. It will be very interesting to see how the relationship between himself and Rio develops from here. Rio is still desperately needed in the team just now.

Pj! · 22-10-2012 02:49PM

Ferguson told a press conference on Monday: 'There is no issue. There was a communication problem. But it has been resolved.'

Minor issue. We don't know the full facts of course but it looks sorted. Couple of games coming up are far more important.

Manager and player look happy today.

Pro. F wrote: »

Ferguson has made a complete fool of himself with this episode. He has been completely in the wrong. It will be very interesting to see how the relationship between himself and Rio develops from here.

I think they'll just move on to be honest. Everyone can calm down.

mitosis · 22-10-2012 03:27PM

Des wrote: »

er, wrong.

The consequence for Ferdinand is a fine of two weeks wages.

Really? What's your bona fide source for that?

jaykay74 · 22-10-2012 03:37PM

Pj! wrote: »

I think they'll just move on to be honest. Everyone can calm down.

Pretty much sums it up for me

eugeneious · 22-10-2012 08:26PM

Wrote a post about why I think Ferguson was wrong and why Rio was right:
http://www.keepyourkloseon.com/2012/10/fergie-not-rio-has-embarrassed-himself.html

PhlegmyMoses · 23-10-2012 01:13AM

event wrote: »

tbh, maybe they are developing their own solution that we aren't aware of yet.

If they are, they should maybe have communicated this. They are making a statement to the footballing world by not wearing the t-shirt. They should probably outline their problem. It's a serious issue.

but if they aren't, that doesn't mean they have to go along with the one that's there. They obviously feel that KIO isn't doing enough. What this has done, is highlight that there are people unhappy with the way they are going at the moment. Everyone is pointing to the fact they only get 300k a year. Perhaps this is loads and there are a few lads there sitting on their arses

Nobody is saying that they have to go along with it. Some clarification about why they aren't would be nice. What's the point in making a public stand if nobody fully understands it?

Also, people saying that he should have sent to ferguson first. I doubt he knew what fergie was going to say in his interview Friday, so why would he go to him? I doubt he asks him every week what he's going to say in his interview. A few journos have said it was public knowledge that Rio wasn't going to wear a t-shirt and they were quite shocked when fergie said what he did

Ferguson is Rio Ferdinand's boss. The kind of boss that likes to be kept in the loop but also the kind of boss that publically sticks up for his players and backs them in the face of adversity, as he has done with Ferdinand previously when he spent 9 months out and then stalled on a new contract. It is not up to Ferguson to answer to Ferdinand. ferdinand does answer to Ferguson, though.

Rekop dog · 23-10-2012 01:41AM

It always baffles me what gets the boardsies talking. This is such a non issue in the grand scene of things it's farcical. Top class European games regularly go by with little or no comment but the drama lamas always come out in force for these issues blown completely out of proportion by the English media.

Corvo · 23-10-2012 03:45AM

Rekop dog wrote: »

It always baffles me what gets the boardsies talking. This is such a non issue in the grand scene of things it's farcical. Top class European games regularly go by with little or no comment but the drama lamas always come out in force for these issues blown completely out of proportion by the English media.

In fairness, its an extremely important issue that is now seemingly rearing its ugly head in the game once again. While the Ferguson/Ferdinand debate is only a sub-plot, the current racism issues and the most recent cases would cause concern for any football fan. Hence the constant talk regarding the Luis Suarez & John Terry cases and other aspects.

I don't see how it can be ignored instead of a european game.

23-10-2012 06:06AM

Griffin1988 wrote: »

In fairness, its an extremely important issue that is now seemingly rearing its ugly head in the game once again. While the Ferguson/Ferdinand debate is only a sub-plot, the current racism issues and the most recent cases would cause concern for any football fan. Hence the constant talk regarding the Luis Suarez & John Terry cases and other aspects.

I don't see how it can be ignored instead of a european game.

There have been 2 mildly racist incidents in England over the last year. The Serbia thing is ridiculous but it has been going on for a while. There are potential leg breaking tackles that go unpunished every week, clean diving that goes unpunished among other things. Racism is a small issue in the game compared to these things imo.

Corvo · 23-10-2012 06:11AM

Liam O wrote: »

There have been 2 mildly racist incidents in England over the last year. The Serbia thing is ridiculous but it has been going on for a while. There are potential leg breaking tackles that go unpunished every week, clean diving that goes unpunished among other things. Racism is a small issue in the game compared to these things imo.

I would never consider any form of racism a small or mild issue. Just me I guess

Iang87 · 23-10-2012 10:16PM

Griffin1988 wrote: »

I would never consider any form of racism a small or mild issue. Just me I guess

I'm not going to get into it because it does appear we do not agree on that but my point is do you think being called a black cnut is the same as getting beaten because you're black or being forced to use different and lesser facilities because you're black.

Its easy to adopt the any form of racism is the same attitude but just like most bad things people do there are levels that don't make all crimes the same crime.

Drumpot · 23-10-2012 10:35PM

Iang87 wrote: »

I'm not going to get into it because it does appear we do not agree on that but my point is do you think being called a black cnut is the same as getting beaten because you're black or being forced to use different and lesser facilities because you're black.

Its easy to adopt the any form of racism is the same attitude but just like most bad things people do there are levels that don't make all crimes the same crime.

I agree completely . . The world has gone PC mad and extremely smug on its own self importance. .

I dont condone somebody calling another player a black cnut or something on those lines, but i think the context is important. Suarez is not a player I particularly like, but as far as i am concerned the whole thing was blown out of proportion. I actually think the actions of LFC and its management in supporting him in a ridiculous nature and by getting involved in all sorts of lies was worse then the racist remarks alleged by the player.

I wonder what would happen if a black player called a white player a "cracker", would there be the same uproar ? Would somebody in the crowd report it ? That is no less offencive a term then the N word, yet its because one part of society has a chip on its shoulder, the N word is considered more powerful. However, they are both insults about the color of your skin.

Lets go one step further, if a player is called a white piece of "sh*t" or something like that or some other insult like Paddy (we all know Irish players have been subjected to this), where exactly do you stop ?

PhlegmyMoses · 23-10-2012 10:37PM

Iang87 wrote: »

I'm not going to get into it because it does appear we do not agree on that but my point is do you think being called a black cnut is the same as getting beaten because you're black or being forced to use different and lesser facilities because you're black.

Its easy to adopt the any form of racism is the same attitude but just like most bad things people do there are levels that don't make all crimes the same crime.

This is not a great argument tbf. I'm not sure what your point is. Of course some things are worse than others. My house could burn down tomorrow but I couldn't really complain because there are poor people in Africa who don't have food, let alone a house. And at least I'll get insurance money. This is obviously nonsense.

Sure, getting beaten up because you are black is worse than being racially abused verbally. It doesn't mean that we can't rail against verbal racist abuse too. It's abhorrent, unnecessary and offensive to any right-thinking person. Also, if verbal racist abuse is tolerated, it can be a short slide to reach physical abuse territory. Letting stuff like this go unchecked is never a good idea.

PhlegmyMoses · 23-10-2012 10:40PM

Drumpot wrote: »

I wonder what would happen if a black player called a white player a "cracker", would there be the same uproar ? Would somebody in the crowd report it ? That is no less offencive a term then the N word, yet its because one part of society has a chip on its shoulder, the N word is considered more powerful. However, they are both insults about the color of your skin.

Lets go one step further, if a player is called a white piece of "sh*t" or something like that or some other insult like Paddy (we all know Irish players have been subjected to this), where exactly do you stop ?

Of course it isn't the same. It is about how the injured party interprets it. The word ****** or calling someone a black **** comes with the weight of hundreds of years of oppression and hurt behind it. This argument has been trotted out for years and it never gets any more relevant. It misses the point spectacularly.

CSF · 23-10-2012 10:42PM

Drumpot wrote: »

I agree completely . . The world has gone PC mad and extremely smug on its own self importance. .

I dont condone somebody calling another player a black cnut or something on those lines, but i think the context is important. Suarez is not a player I particularly like, but as far as i am concerned the whole thing was blown out of proportion. I actually think the actions of LFC and its management in supporting him in a ridiculous nature and by getting involved in all sorts of lies was worse then the racist remarks alleged by the player.

I wonder what would happen if a black player called a white player a "cracker", would there be the same uproar ? Would somebody in the crowd report it ? That is no less offencive a term then the N word, yet its because one part of society has a chip on its shoulder, the N word is considered more powerful. However, they are both insults about the color of your skin.

Lets go one step further, if a player is called a white piece of "sh*t" or something like that or some other insult like Paddy (we all know Irish players have been subjected to this), where exactly do you stop ?

Can you do us all a favour and never offer an opinion on anything even slightly controversial ever again? You clearly have no concept of context and sensitivity.

CSF · 23-10-2012 10:42PM

Actually, can you just never offer an opinion again?

Pro. F · 23-10-2012 10:53PM

Pj! wrote: »

I think they'll just move on to be honest. Everyone can calm down.

I agree that they probably will. But I strongly suspect that if Fergie didn't need Rio so much he wouldn't get over it so easily.

Drumpot · 23-10-2012 10:55PM

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Of course it isn't the same. It is about how the injured party interprets it. The word ****** or calling someone a black **** comes with the weight of hundreds of years of oppression and hurt behind it. This argument has been trotted out for years and it never gets any more relevant. It misses the point spectacularly.

I disagree, I just think society has gone PC mad . . This whole 100s of years of oppression stuff is old at this stage. What exactly has Rio Ferdinand got to be upset about ?

A person has a choice to be offended or not to be, just like a person has a choice to try to annoy/offend by using the term.

John Terry, Suarez were not trying to imply that black people are inferior, they were simply trying to annoy the opponents. Granted in a not very classy manner, but none the less it was an insult designed to annoy, not to belittle an entire race. (for anybody who has played football t, they will know what Im talking about).

I could hold a grudge against the British for their treatment of our forefathers but I choose not to . . If I am playing on a pitch against them and they slag me about being their bitch (Ulster) or something like that, why should that be treated any differantly just because I didnt get offended ? Why should that be ok ?

Iang87 · 23-10-2012 10:56PM

I wasn't saying that one should be left unchecked I was just saying that I don't agree that all racism is the same.

It's all terrible and shouldn't be tolerated in the slightest but I am saying that all racism acts are not the same and should not be treated the same

Drumpot · 23-10-2012 11:00PM

CSF wrote: »

Can you do us all a favour and never offer an opinion on anything even slightly controversial ever again? You clearly have no concept of context and sensitivity.

I think alot of people have no concept of anything outside of whats popular or fed to them by the media. . .

Poor old multi millionaire footballers, pushing the cause for their slave forefathers, on twitter and by small public gestures.

Suppose Ive been on the receiving end of being accused of being racist (and ultimatley been cleared) simply because i asked a neighbour to show myself and my partner a little respect by not parking in our spot and to stop constantly making noise.

Its all one big giant pile of steaming hyporcisy . .

Iang87 · 23-10-2012 11:04PM

Drumpot wrote: »

I think alot of people have no concept of anything outside of whats popular or fed to them by the media. . .

Poor old multi millionaire footballers, pushing the cause for their slave forefathers, on twitter and by small public gestures.

Dangerous territory there just cos they're rich doesn't mean they should be treated that way

Pro. F · 23-10-2012 11:06PM

Drumpot wrote: »

I could hold a grudge against the British for their treatment of our forefathers but I choose not to . . If I am playing on a pitch against them and they slag me about being their bitch or something like that, why should that be treated any differantly just because I didnt get offended ? Why should that be ok ?

It's not ok under the law or the FA rules. If you choose to not get offended by xenophobic slaggings about your Irishness that is your call. If you are offended then you have the same protection and recourse under the law/rules as one of those black people that you think have a chip on their shoulder about being racially abused. So you can calm down, the PC brigade aren't out to get you.

PhlegmyMoses · 23-10-2012 11:07PM

Drumpot wrote: »

I disagree, I just think society has gone PC mad . . This whole 100s of years of oppression stuff is old at this stage. What exactly has Rio Ferdinand got to be upset about ?

For a start, can you stop with this PC mad nonsense? It's ridiculous and hyperbolic. I'm more of a laptop man anyway. On your point, it is not for you to decide what the statute of limitations is for how raw a wound like that is. The language used back then is still being used today with the intent of injuring a person based on the colour of their skin. If that hasn't gone away, why would people suddenly start to be willing to brush it off.

A person has a choice to be offended or not to be

Correct. So why are you trying to make the choice for everyone else?

John Terry, Suarez were not trying to imply that black people are inferior, they were simply trying to annoy the opponents. Granted in a not very classy manner, but none the less it was an insult designed to annoy, not to belittle an entire race. (for anybody who has played football t, they will know what Im talking about).

I played football until very recently. I would never have dreamed of calling someone a name like that. It was never considered something that was cool to do to gain an edge in a match. You are talking out of your arse.

I could hold a grudge against the British for their treatment of our forefathers but I choose not to . . If I am playing on a pitch against them and they slag me about being their bitch or something like that, why should that be treated any differantly just because I didnt get offended ? Why should that be ok ?

Again, you are applying your own personal reaction to the issue and presuming that everyone in society should follow your moral lead. Who are you to tell anyone how to feel or what to be offended by?

Alex Ferguson on Ferdinand and Roberts

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