The root of the problems with Irish football

joker77 · 23-10-2012 09:33AM #1

almost 200,000 people still spent close to €100 million cheering on their favourite teams in the English Premier League last year, according to figures from the British tourism authority.

bohsman · 23-10-2012 09:37AM

The numbers don't add up, Irish football is ****, my dad supported Man Utd.

_blank_ · 23-10-2012 09:40AM

I don't live close enough to an Irish football ground to support an Irish team, but see no problem with flying to the mainland to support a British team, like Celtic or Newcastle, which are further away.

It takes me an hour to get to my closest airport, to wait for an hour to get on a plane. My nearest LoI ground is a half hour away by car though.

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23-10-2012 09:45AM

Since when is €78 million the same as "€100 million"? Or even "close to €100 million"? And even that €78 million is a total guess. Awful reporting.

As for the assumption in the OP, you've missed the chicken/egg facet of the problem

gimmick · 23-10-2012 09:49AM

The standards of the facilities are not up to my standards of what I am used to.

StickyMcGinty · 23-10-2012 09:49AM

"VisitBritain said the 900,000 foreign football tourists spent £706 million (€865 million), an average of about £785 (€962) per fan per visit.

The averages are high because of the number of visitors from the United States and Asia but even if the typical Irish spend is half that average, the total outlay from Irish soccer fans ran to €78 million in 2011."

I know Irish fans doing trips for less than €100 all in per trip, agreed with 28064212 this article is guesswork at best

And this blame game that goes on by LOI clubs / fans to English football clubs/fans does nothing to help the Irish game, it just makes people resent it more

daheff · 23-10-2012 09:50AM

Its all to do with the product being sold.

Premier league is all glitzy and glamour -just look at the players profiles in the press (they're all dating glamour models & tv presenters).

LOI is gritty and gloomy. In fairness to LOI, its been getting its act together over the last few years. Gone are the days of 'oh another clubs overspent and gone bust' to the days of sustainable clubs (SRFC, Sligo, Derry).

LOI will get better...but its never going to reach the days where they had 40K+ crowds.

LOI would do worse than to look at what Rugby has done. Rugby is getting to the glamour status in Ireland that soccer has in Britain.

23-10-2012 09:51AM

Love these threads. If its not an occasion, most people just don't wanna know. Look no further than our drubbing at the hands of Germany. Silence, moaning and apathy. Contrast it to the Spain game at the Euro's where everyone and their brother were in full voice after a 4-0 demolition.

gimmick · 23-10-2012 09:51AM

All my friends and family supported a certain british team when I was growing up so I had to chose them. It had nothing at all to do with the fact that they were the team winning most things at the time. it was my older brothers/dads/friends influence.

I wanted to support a local team, but my influences had no interest so I never got to get into it.

_blank_ · 23-10-2012 09:54AM

I wento a game once and it rained, so I didn't go again.

gimmick · 23-10-2012 09:57AM

Generally the food outlets are not very good in LOI grounds. If there were a few more McDonalds in them I might start going to games.

And cushioned seats. It needs more cushioned seats.

23-10-2012 09:58AM

You can get a trip for 100 quid all in if you book flights etc well in advance.

Don't see why people say it's too expensive tbh.

GavRedKing · 23-10-2012 09:58AM

How long before this is closed, I'm going to say 15-20 posts before this descends into a cluster fúck and its closed.

Anyway......article says 174,000 people go cross channel to see the teams they support, saying almost 200,000 is strecthing the figure TBH.

Now lets take the 174,000 that go to England, the latest population figure is around 4.59 Million, so that leaves 4,416,000 that dont go to England to games.

The problem with Irish Football isn't with fans going across the water, the problem with Irish football is right at the very top, the FAI and how they run the domestic game and how they promote it at grass root levels.

_blank_ · 23-10-2012 09:59AM

Some school aged kids were throwing shapes at each other, and I felt intimidated by them, so I hurried on past the ground on my way to the pub.

GavRedKing · 23-10-2012 10:02AM

Omackeral wrote: »

Love these threads. If its not an occasion, most people just don't wanna know. Look no further than our drubbing at the hands of Germany. Silence, moaning and apathy. Contrast it to the Spain game at the Euro's where everyone and their brother were in full voice after a 4-0 demolition.

The bandwagon for the Euro's was well and truly bursting at the seems though.

Mix that with a mtch K/O in the afternnon and the fact that we the Irish enjoy the odd cheap drink or ten means there was always going to be more atmosphere and singing at the Euro's regardless of the results.

bohsman · 23-10-2012 10:03AM

GavRedKing wrote: »

Now lets take the 174,000 that go to England, the latest population figure is around 4.59 Million, so that leaves 4,416,000 that dont go to England to games.

That's a strange way of looking at it. Taking into account people that do go to LOI games we probably have 200k people that are willing to go to live football matches in this country. If even 25% of the people that travel gave their own league a bit of support aswell it would be massive for the league.

ArmaniJeanss · 23-10-2012 10:13AM

A decent amount of these trips are 'lads weekends away' with the football match just used as an excuse.

GavRedKing · 23-10-2012 10:15AM

bohsman wrote: »

That's a strange way of looking at it. Taking into account people that do go to LOI games we probably have 200k people that are willing to go to live football matches in this country. If even 25% of the people that travel gave their own league a bit of support aswell it would be massive for the league.

I agree with ya, for example, lets say a father and son decide to go to Old Trafford.

Your looking at €200-250 for 2 flights, another €75-100 for 2 tickets and another €50-75 for accom and throw in another we'll say €50-75 for food, transport, drinks. a conservative estimate of about €375 for a weekend away to go to England.

Now if the same father and son supoprt a LoI team it'll cost 2 x tickets €30-40 , petrol €10, food/drink €10-15, giving us a figure of €50 for a LoI of match, thats 1/7 the cost of going to England.

Some fans can manage to go to England for 20+ games while others go the odd time a season, the LoI is certainly more appealing now then it has ever been and I think it represents good value to any fan, in fact when I have a son I'll try bring him to Turners Cross whenever I get a chance but it will be up to him if he wants to go.

If you support an English side and a LoI of team then there is nothing stopping ya going to your local LoI team when your not going cross channel as the cost isnt so huge that it will affect your travel fund to England.

EdenHazard · 23-10-2012 10:17AM

it is a major problem(for football here) but who wants to go to a match and be on the sidelines watching lads you prob knew before. i'd rather play myself thanks. p.s i dont follow any english team

bohsman · 23-10-2012 10:29AM

EdenHazard wrote: »

it is a major problem(for football here) but who wants to go to a match and be on the sidelines watching lads you prob knew before. i'd rather play myself thanks. p.s i dont follow any english team

I'd far prefer to be watching people who are far far better footballers than me but are still for the most part down to earth and not paid 200k per week.

There's a few Bohs fans that have come up through the schoolboys getting their game for the first team and angling for a move to England if they keep playing well. I'm far happier spending my money watching them give 110% than some overpaid primadonnas who couldn't care less about the club.

Father Damo · 23-10-2012 10:46AM

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

A decent amount of these trips are 'lads weekends away' with the football match just used as an excuse.

Exactly. The amount of lads who go to every, or even a monthly, game would not be that big at all. I read the figures before for a few clubs Irish regulars but it is maybe 1000 or 2000 for the big clubs. If I was on the lash with the lads in any English city I would likely want to catch a match if they have a decent team that I do not dislike. Same way that most lads who end up in Barcelona, Madrid or an Italian city like to catch a match even if they are more admirers than die hard fans of the team involved.

2ndcoming · 23-10-2012 10:47AM

Outside most clubs' hardcore fanbase, most Irish fans have little or no link to LOI clubs. I support my local LSL side in the flesh on Sunday mornings and financially to the tune of €240 a year, because I value the club, what it did for me down the years and what it does for the local community, getting kids involved in the game etc.

Look what happened to Sporting Fingal and Kildare County. You can't just plop a brand new club in someplace where nobody has a link to it and expect people to care. Look at Monaghan and to a lesser extent Longford, you can't really expect local people to care about a load of ex-<insert Dublin club here> schoolboys that didn't quite make it at the Dublin clubs so come down to play in their county a few times a month.

I'm an Arsenal fan and have been since I was six, I feel more connected to that club than any LOI club, but I definitely invest more time and money supporting my local club. If the FAI built up and supported the schoolboy leagues and provincial leagues and saw to it that we had at least 10 UEFA badged coaches in every county, particularly at under-age levels, there'd be a lot more potential for improvement in the LOI 20 years down the line.

Father Damo · 23-10-2012 11:23AM

GavRedKing wrote: »

The bandwagon for the Euro's was well and truly bursting at the seems though.

Mix that with a mtch K/O in the afternnon and the fact that we the Irish enjoy the odd cheap drink or ten means there was always going to be more atmosphere and singing at the Euro's regardless of the results.

Exactly what percentage of the lads who went to Poland do you reckon had not watched a match between the France play off and the Estonia play off? Believe it or not, from the many European nationalities I have met, percentage wise the Irish are probably one of the most serious nations in the world when it comes to public interest in the qualifying rounds. Fair enough, it is partly because we are so error prone that a match aainst a 6th seeder is vitally important on our radar compared to Spain vs Liechteinstein, but lets be honest, you dont see the bars of Dublin that show European qualifiers jammed with Italian ex pats watching their lads fight in Azerbaijan, yet for a similar game on even a weeknight most Irish pubs would be fairly full. Irish people simply have more of an affinity with national, rather than club football, often in spite of how poor we are playing.

AgileMyth · 23-10-2012 12:55PM

Such idiots going over to England. I just go to Celtic games, which is totally different cause they're Irish.

Davidth88 · 23-10-2012 01:07PM

Guys, Have to put a disclaimer in her , I am English , living in Ireland for 12 years .

I have been to quite a number of LOI games , all over the country from Cork to Dundalk .

You have to think of the scale of things , look at the current leaders in the Championship , Sligo , this is a town of what ... about 20-22 k people ? It's a large ' catchment ' area , but I find that Counties are very tribal , can you see people from Mayo/Leitrim or whatver supporting Sligo Town in any numbers ?

So that limits the attendances hugely .

Dublin is a city of what , about 1 million if you bring in the outlaying areas , it has what , 5 clubs ( or six if you include Bray which for all purposes is within the Dublin Metro area ) competing for that crowd , that's a city slightly larger than Sheffield .....

Add to this that clubs appear / disappear / change names etc , so local people feel very little connection to their local club , I would lay money if you asked 100 people in say Crumlin to name their local club 90 would struggle.

What I would do .

Get rid of the LOI and the Irish League , combine them and reduce the number of clubs to a league similar to the SPL,

I also think it does not help that football is played during the summer here so is competing against other sports ( namely GAA of course ), what's the history behind that ?

Guy:Incognito · 23-10-2012 01:07PM

bohsman wrote: »

There's a few Bohs fans that have come up through the schoolboys getting their game for the first team and angling for a move to England if they keep playing well. .

Maybe those lads need to be sneered at and looked down on for not sticking with their local team and league? That'll help build a nice successful league that people want to see.

Or is it only fans that are not allowed do as they please?

RoryMac · 23-10-2012 01:09PM

AgileMyth wrote: »

Such idiots going over to England. I just go to Celtic games, which is totally different cause they're Irish.

Yeah that's trotted out all the time on here! :rolleyes:

23-10-2012 01:11PM

Davidth88 wrote: »

I also think it does not help that football is played during the summer here so is competing against other sports ( namely GAA of course ), what's the history behind that ?

The GAA may as well be year-round at this point and I don't know the full history but they seem intent on hoovering as many players as possible for as long as possible. They'll have a match and 1-2 training sessions per week and wil often have players play at 2 age levels when they're kids or bounce between senior/intermediate/junior when they're a bit older. It's a very, very hard grip to try to break and there isn't the structure in football here to compete with the the loyalty that can be created in GAA where someone joins a club at 6 or 7 and can progress through about 8 levels at that club into their mid-thirties.

Davidth88 · 23-10-2012 01:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The GAA may as well be year-round at this point and I don't know the full history but they seem intent on hoovering as many players as possible for as long as possible. They'll have a match and 1-2 training sessions per week and wil often have players play at 2 age levels when they're kids or bounce between senior/intermediate/junior when they're a bit older. It's a very, very hard grip to try to break and there isn't the structure in football here to compete with the the loyalty that can be created in GAA where someone joins a club at 6 or 7 and can progress through about 8 levels at that club into their mid-thirties.

Sorry I should have made myself a bit clearer , i was thinking more as a spectator than participant .

If you take me as an example , I would have difficulty kicking a ball , but I have attended 100's of matches .

Father Damo · 23-10-2012 02:00PM

Davidth88 wrote: »

So that limits the attendances hugely .

Dublin is a city of what , about 1 million if you bring in the outlaying areas , it has what , 5 clubs ( or six if you include Bray which for all purposes is within the Dublin Metro area ) competing for that crowd , that's a city slightly larger than Sheffield .....

What I would do .

Get rid of the LOI and the Irish League , combine them and reduce the number of clubs to a league similar to the SPL,

The current LOI fans and clubs would never back this. While they are small in number the proposition, to them, may as well be the same as Arsenal and Spurs linking as North London United- most of the fans would sooner support a completely different team than a made up one like that. The chairman of Hearts suggested they and Hibs do this back in the late 80s, claiming Edinborough was too small for two big teams to challenge the Old Firm, and got vilified by both his own fans and Hibs.

There is no guarantee people would embrace these clubs. Its a big money gamble with no reward guaranteed for the investor.

uch · 23-10-2012 02:11PM

GavRedKing wrote: »

How long before this is closed, I'm going to say 15-20 posts before this descends into a cluster fúck and its closed.

Anyway......article says 174,000 people go cross channel to see the teams they support, saying almost 200,000 is strecthing the figure TBH.

Now lets take the 174,000 that go to England, the latest population figure is around 4.59 Million, so that leaves 4,416,000 that dont go to England to games.

The problem with Irish Football isn't with fans going across the water, the problem with Irish football is right at the very top, the FAI and how they run the domestic game and how they promote it at grass root levels.

Couldn't agree more with above, I attend LOI football every other week and I've never once seen the FAI promoting a match, with the exception of the cup final maybe.

The root of the problems with Irish football

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