Cancer...Is there more of it around now?

Pherekydes · 22-10-2012 10:14AM

100% of people who don't contract cancer will die!

A comforting thought for Monday morning.

gbee · 22-10-2012 10:18AM

Pherekydes wrote: »

100% of people who don't contract cancer will die!.

Men enjoy a built in self-destruct mechanism, if he does not die of anything else, prostrate cancer WILL take him out

Pherekydes · 22-10-2012 10:30AM

gbee wrote: »

Men enjoy a built in self-destruct mechanism, if he does not die of anything else...

Shhhhh! Keep it under your hat, but women aren't immune from death, either.

professore · 22-10-2012 10:31AM

As someone who lost a young family member to cancer, I have also done a lot of research on this, and having a scientific background, I looked at facts, not scare stories.

Firstly, "organic" food has MORE carcinogens in it than "non-organic" food (of course all food is organic, but anyway ...) . In order to survive all the bugs eating them, only the plants stuffed with toxins that the bugs won't eat, survive. These are selectively bred. Food sprayed with pesticides on the other hand don't need to be as tough, and those pesticides are tested to the nth degree before being allowed in the food chain. No such testing is done on organic food. There has been a famous study by Bruce Ames on this: http://harvardmagazine.com/1997/05/health.html

A lot of nonsense is also talked about mobile phone telephone masts, pylons and other such sources. See here for the true sources of radiation. Had a CT scan or eaten food recently? http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/radiation-dosage-chart/.

Atmospheric pollution from diesel particulates and gasoline in general, and burnt food are much more potent sources of carcinogens than any radiation apart from radon in some areas - the sun is the #1 source for most of us.

My parents are both in their 80s now, their parents didn't live anywhere near as long. Go out in the street, look at all the old people everywhere? Look at our pensions bill, and how poweful a lobby the pensioners have become even here, a relatively young country. This tells it's own story.

gurramok · 22-10-2012 11:30AM

Did all these cancers exist pre-Industrial Revolution? Wondering if cancers are a product of what happened since then rather than being the norm that affects the human race for millenia.

Ziphius · 22-10-2012 11:37AM

gurramok wrote: »

Did all these cancers exist pre-Industrial Revolution? Wondering if cancers are a product of what happened since then rather than being the norm that affects the human race for millenia.

Probably. Cancer has been shown to have affected dinosaurs too http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2003/oct/23/dinosaurs.science

It's been around for a long time.

Nichololas · 22-10-2012 11:51AM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There will be plenty more of it about if the government dose not place an immediate ban on genetically modified crops and their by products ie beef etc.

No, beef is a by product of cow sex, not genetically modified crops.

Lord Trollington · 22-10-2012 12:41PM

paulsgirl wrote: »

I'm a cancer survivor and have done a lot of research on the topic.

We are only "living longer" with cancer because its diagnosed earlier than before.

The food we put in our mouths has a huge, huge impact on our cancer rates. Lots of people like to blame pollution etc (which is also some of the cause) but the most important thing, is the one thing we can control and thats whether we decide to eat processed/GMO,hormone pumped food or fresh, organic produce.

To me, that side of it is a no brainer.

This is an interesting point.

How is one to know going into a butchers if the steak or chicken they have just purchased which looks very frsh isn't filled with harmful chemicals?

The education out there on nutrition is quite poor. Yes they print the salt content and calories in most of our products now. But its much deeper we need to look than that.

paulsgirl · 22-10-2012 12:47PM

Hi Lord Trollington,

I'm, as a result of my cancer diagnosis over 3 years ago, studying to be a nutritionist. Prior to that, I have spent time in a health institute and various other places learning about food and how to eat to stay healthy.

To ensure you are buying meat without harmful chemicals/hormones etc, you would need to ensure your meat has been grass fed and organic. Its possible to buy organic meat in the supermarkets. I'm not sure if local butchers stock organic meat, I doubt it (but I'm not sure as I don't eat meat at all).

Also, just to add to this. The organic meat is more expensive but I buy smaller portions of it now and do not cook meat 7 day a week (my husband is a meat eater). Its simply not healthy to have too much animal protein in our diet. There are very few people hospitalised with a deficiency in protein (because you can get it from so many other sources other than meat). I've never heard of a single person anyway.

paulsgirl · 22-10-2012 03:40PM

Obesity problems aside, diets have improved vastly in the last century. Chemicals? You realise everything contains chemicals?

You can't be serious?! Most of the world are suffering from malnutrition. The world (mostly the western part of it) are becoming Obese. We are the first generation that will die before their parents. There has never been so much GMO/Processed Food available. 99% of people are hooked on sugar as its in almost every processed food in some form or another. And heart disease is the number one killer, cancer following a close second. And our diets improved? I don't think so....

Solair · 22-10-2012 03:54PM

Living beyond 35 is probably a big factor. In the past most people didn't live very old.
A lot of cancers wouldn't have been diagnosed either or would have been mistaken for other diseases.

We are exposed to a lot more chemicals though than our ancestors. Although, that exposure probably peaked in the first half of the 20th century. Environmental pollution improved the developed world from the 1970s onwards.

There's possibly something in the exposure to nuclear weapons testing fallout theory. There were 2053 tests and two actual attacks carried out since the late 1940s, many of the earlier ones being atmospheric.

The major issue with that is releasing hot particles which can be incorporated into our tissues. So, for example you could have a small quantities of a radioactive isotope of calcium bound into your bones. That would slowly bombard the surrounding tissue with alpha, beta and gamma radiation and could ultimately cause cancer.

Smoke tends to include a lot of potentially carcinogenic materials. So, the exposure to burnt particles from fires, furnaces etc etc would have been impacting upon us since at least the industrial revolution.

Then you've also got to factor in things like exposure to viruses, which can damage dna. We've always had to coexist with those.

the_syco · 22-10-2012 04:39PM

gurramok wrote: »

Did all these cancers exist pre-Industrial Revolution? Wondering if cancers are a product of what happened since then rather than being the norm that affects the human race for millenia.

Were potatoes eaten before the industrial revolution?

Ziphius · 22-10-2012 04:56PM

paulsgirl wrote: »

You can't be serious?! Most of the world are suffering from malnutrition. The world (mostly the western part of it) are becoming Obese. We are the first generation that will die before their parents. There has never been so much GMO/Processed Food available. 99% of people are hooked on sugar as its in almost every processed food in some form or another. And heart disease is the number one killer, cancer following a close second. And our diets improved? I don't think so....

You've mentioned GM food in relation to cancer rates a few times. There is no proven link between GM food and cancer. Moreover, there is no evidence that organic food is healthier than conventional agriculture or GM food.

While there is a link between diet and cancer incidence (for example insufficient dietary fibre and increased rates of bowel cancer) it has nothing to do with GM.

Solair · 22-10-2012 05:21PM

the_syco wrote: »

Were potatoes eaten before the industrial revolution?

Yes.

Solair · 22-10-2012 05:22PM

Ziphius wrote: »

You've mentioned GM food in relation to cancer rates a few times. There is no proven link between GM food and cancer. Moreover, there is no evidence that organic food is healthier than conventional agriculture or GM food.

While there is a link between diet and cancer incidence (for example insufficient dietary fibre and increased rates of bowel cancer) it has nothing to do with GM.

I'd be far more concerned with some of the pesticides and other gunk on fruit and vegetables than whether or not they're GM.

gbee · 23-10-2012 07:22AM

BBC [last night and for the next two nights].

A 40,000 year old skeleton of a 40 to 45 year old male Neanderthal died of Cancer. A form of Lung Cancer which may cause heart disease and lung and heart failure.

Europeans, have from 3% to 7% Neanderthal DNA, almost no Neanderthal DNA is in Africa which means that New Man, the last man out of Africa and the only survivor, bred with Neanderthal across Europe.

gbee · 23-10-2012 07:27AM

Solair wrote: »

I'd be far more concerned with some of the pesticides and other gunk on fruit and vegetables than whether or not they're GM.

Of course, genetic modifications have been going on all the time, in animals, food crops and horticulture.

The huge variety of dogs alone conceals a tale of genetic modifications via cross breeding ~ those beautiful roses are often grafted onto wild aggressive, invasive bush stems ~ it's all genetic modification.

CathyMoran · 23-10-2012 07:53AM

I was diagnosed with oesophageal cancer when I was 32. As I am a type 1 diabetic with thyroid issues I would have died when I was 10 from the diabetes if not the thyroid issues when I was younger. Medicine has meant that a lot of people are living that would have otherwise died (from vaccines against various illnesses to insulin for diabetes). People are living longer because to a large part advances in the medical field and that also increases cancer cases as more mutations etc increase with age.

paulsgirl · 23-10-2012 08:19AM

You've mentioned GM food in relation to cancer rates a few times. There is no proven link between GM food and cancer. Moreover, there is no evidence that organic food is healthier than conventional agriculture or GM food.

While there is a link between diet and cancer incidence (for example insufficient dietary fibre and increased rates of bowel cancer) it has nothing to do with GM.

I haven't said there is a direct link. I believe its an overall picture. Nutrition plays a huge part in cancer (but exercise, mental health etc also play some of the role), whether its GM or not. My point is, most people are not getting enough fibre, barely eating their 5 a day and hooked on sugar as its in virtually everything.

paulsgirl · 23-10-2012 08:22AM

I'd imagine genetics plays a huge part. Luck of the draw really. 2 Parents, 4 grandparents, 25 1st cousins and 9 aunts/uncles and no cancers in my extended family. You might have 7 or 8 out of 10 in another family ultimately suffer or die of some form of cancer.

In other words I don't think the statistics are that 1 out of every 3 family members for all families will die of cancer, its that 1 third of the population as a whole will suffer cancer at some point. One family gets through life unscathed and another is decimated. Sad but true.

Actually, only 10-20% of Cancers are genetic, the other 80% is caused by different things like the environment, food etc. I know this because my cancer was genetic as I got tested for it.

And even if it is genetic, that is not to say that you will get cancer. Something changes the expression of a gene in order for you to get cancer (a trigger).

Eating habits, lifestyle habits usually filter from generation to generation, this can have a huge effect on our health.

Ziphius · 23-10-2012 09:10AM

paulsgirl wrote: »

I haven't said there is a direct link. I believe its an overall picture. Nutrition plays a huge part in cancer (but exercise, mental health etc also play some of the role), whether its GM or not. My point is, most people are not getting enough fibre, barely eating their 5 a day and hooked on sugar as its in virtually everything.

Fair enough. As you've said diet certainly effects the probability of developing cancer. Regular exercise has also been shown to reduce the risks of developing certain cancers, breast cancer for example.

Capt'n Midnight · 23-10-2012 06:13PM

gbee wrote: »

Europeans, have from 3% to 7% Neanderthal DNA, almost no Neanderthal DNA is in Africa which means that New Man, the last man out of Africa and the only survivor, bred with Neanderthal across Europe.

recent research would suggest that it came from a shared ancestor rather than interbreeding

We are finding out that Neanderthal culture was more advanced than previously thought.

gbee · 24-10-2012 07:40AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

recent research would suggest that it came from a shared ancestor rather than interbreeding .

Prehistoric Autopsy BBC. A show that's running for three nights, tonight being the last one. They seem to be suggesting slightly differently. As many as seven humans seemingly sprang from Homo erectus, including Neanderthal and New Man, the main three lived as separate species at the same time for a period.

Last night bone analysis on a 1.4million year old reveals possible cause of death = cancer.

Cancer...Is there more of it around now?

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