Number of Catholics at record high

ehcocmeo · 18-10-2012 10:35PM #1

Interesting to see the new statistics.

THERE are more Catholics in Ireland than ever before, The Catholic Church now has 3.86m members in Ireland, the highest since records began.

WillyWaggler · 18-10-2012 10:37PM

Nice spin.

18-10-2012 10:51PM

Comparing absolute numbers is misleading. (Perhaps) there are more Catholics in Ireland now, but that would be due to an increase in population. You need to look at the relative numbers: the proportion of the total population that Catholics constitute. Namely, you need to look at the percentages. In 2011, Roman Catholics made up 84.16% of the population; in 2006, 87.4%. That's a percentage drop of 3.24%.

Morbert · 18-10-2012 11:03PM

ehcocmeo wrote: »

Interesting to see the new statistics.

THERE are more Catholics in Ireland than ever before, The Catholic Church now has 3.86m members in Ireland, the highest since records began.

Ah I see. That explains why churches are full to the brim, why we have an abundance of qualified priests, and why the philosophy and morality of Catholicism is so relevant to today's generation.

Onesimus · 18-10-2012 11:16PM

I have been to Sunday Mass in many parishes in my town. I see many many Catholics each sunday in each church in just one town. Its packed. The ''nobody goes to church anymore'' is an urban and media myth.

There is a nice story though about the Pope visiting a monastery. about 500 monks celebrating Liturgy. He says to the abbot ''how many monks are here would you say?'' and the abbot replies ''oh about four or five.''

joseph brand · 19-10-2012 12:02AM

There was a poll on The Journal.ie

Census figures are quite misleading, for various reasons.

Case in point: my wife classed our family of four as catholics in the census. I never saw the forms. None of us go to mass. I don't even know anyone who goes to mass, except my dad. And even he says the cathedral is pretty empty. Those who are there are old.

This idea of catholics believing something which is false? You're free to believe that the churches are packed every Sunday. Doesn't make it true.

Onesimus · 19-10-2012 12:20AM

Oh no. The ''Poll''. Every atheists ''Bible''.

Go to a Church Joseph on Sunday and go to each Liturgy from morning to afternoon. I see each one full on the hour in my parish churches.

newmug · 19-10-2012 12:25AM

Yep. Sure the Journal covers everybody in Ireland, and its always right.

Onesimus · 19-10-2012 12:28AM

newmug wrote: »

Yep. Sure the Journal covers everybody in Ireland, and its always right.

Yes people like Joseph have great ''faith'' in it. hee hee hee hee :pac:

totus tuus · 19-10-2012 01:01AM

Good crowds going to Mass where I live, with many young people in the congregation.

Gumbi · 19-10-2012 02:00AM

Onesimus wrote: »

Oh no. The ''Poll''. Every atheists ''Bible''.

Go to a Church Joseph on Sunday and go to each Liturgy from morning to afternoon. I see each one full on the hour in my parish churches.

More sources could be quoted. Don't be so childish. You're positing anecdote as a more reasonable basis for deriving conclusions.

Peregrinus · 19-10-2012 05:53AM

There are a variety of sources that could be quoted, pretty well all of them more rigorous and more credible than a poll on journal.ie. Many of them come from the church authorities; others from academic sources.

But they all show the same picture; a steep and sustained decline in mass attendance which has not been reversed.

And, the demographics suggest, it’s not likely to be. Mass attendance rates are highest among the oldest age groups. But, as each cohort ages, they do not tend to “step up” their mass attendance rates. This suggests that (barring a revival for other reasons) attendance rates will continue to decline (though more slowly than heretofore) for at least the next generation.

The decline is most marked for Catholics, but this is only because they started from an extremely high mass attendance rate, and so had further to fall. Protestant denominations (mostly - there are exceptions) are also experiencing increased numbers of adherents, per the census, but no rise in (already low) church attendance figures.

(Interestingly, surveys which rely on asking people how frequently they go to church tend to show higher attendance rates than surveys which actually measure the number of people turning up on Sunday mornings. Make of that what you will.)

Galwayguy35 · 19-10-2012 06:10AM

Ther would be a higher number of Mass goers in smaller towns and rural areas, among younger people, and no I'm not talking about kids or teenagers who are with their parents here but the 20 - 35 age group.

eviltwin · 19-10-2012 09:37AM

It would be interesting to see how many of those who put themselves down as Catholic actually practice.

My husband hasn't been to mass in nearly 30 yrs but for some bizarre reason insisted on putting himself down as Catholic. When I mentioned this on a night out with friends it turned out many of them had done the same thing.

Calling yourself Catholic is not the same as actually being one.

GarIT · 19-10-2012 09:54AM

Onesimus wrote: »

Oh no. The ''Poll''. Every atheists ''Bible''.

Its a bit better than going "Oh, seems legit, I'll believe"

totus tuus wrote: »

Good crowds going to Mass where I live, with many young people in the congregation.

A lot of them are forced to go by religious parents. Many of them were also listed as Catholic by their parents. Others were made go by other people. Personally I know several people who were made go by their parents that have now stopped once they got to move away for college. Out of a group of 10 friends (all 17-20) there is one Catholic. I also know someone who was bullied into goingto church by the local because she lived in a small town and recieved threats about not going, so very Catholic. :rolleyes:

Penn · 19-10-2012 10:06AM

I had to convince my mother to put me down as No Religion in the Census. Then the next morning, I discovered my father had crossed it out and put me down as Catholic (So I crossed that out and put me back down as No Religion)

While I still wouldn't consider the Census to be 100% accurate, it is the closest thing we have to an accurate result. And from the Census, the percentage of Catholics in Ireland has decreased over the past 5 years.

Peregrinus · 19-10-2012 10:13AM

Penn wrote: »

While I still wouldn't consider the Census to be 100% accurate, it is the closest thing we have to an accurate result.

Yes. It measures the religious identification people choose for themselves. Or, at least, the religious identification that their nearest and dearest choose for them which, complaints about interfering Mammies and Daddies notwithstanding, is still probably more meaningful than the identity that some bloke on a discussion board with an axe to grind would choose for them.

Penn wrote: »

And from the Census, the percentage of Catholics in Ireland has decreased over the past 5 years.

Indeed. While both the number and the percentage of people identifying as having no religion has increased dramatically. It would be simply delusional to dispute this.

joseph brand · 19-10-2012 10:18AM

eviltwin wrote: »

It would be interesting to see how many of those who put themselves down as Catholic actually practice.

My husband hasn't been to mass in nearly 30 yrs but for some bizarre reason insisted on putting himself down as Catholic. When I mentioned this on a night out with friends it turned out many of them had done the same thing.

Calling yourself Catholic is not the same as actually being one.

+1

The poll above should give a more correct approximation of what percentage of us are practising catholics. The census captures those who were born catholic, and in that case that includes me. Like almost everyone I know, I chose to be a catholic when I was a baby. But when I grew up, asked questions and looked around me, I changed. My skin went chalk white, I grew fangs and developed a taste for eating babies. I was now, an ATHEIST! "Wooooo!"

Doctor DooM · 19-10-2012 10:27AM

Where are all these full churches you speak of gentlemen?

Because of the two I was forced to attend as a child 1 has been halved in size to become a community centre and the other only puts on half as much masses due to the tiny congregation. Anecdotal evidence is easy. Loads of young people at churches? Probably the Mammy sending them. See?

The actual real interesting information I found from the census is the amount of "no religion" babies being born (although I find the idea of religious babies laughable). There's a fairly big spike in the amount of families with no intention of giving the child a religious upbringing.

Benny_Cake · 19-10-2012 11:40AM

joseph brand wrote: »

+1

The poll above should give a more correct approximation of what percentage of us are practising catholics. The census captures those who were born catholic, and in that case that includes me. Like almost everyone I know, I chose to be a catholic when I was a baby. But when I grew up, asked questions and looked around me, I changed. My skin went chalk white, I grew fangs and developed a taste for eating babies. I was now, an ATHEIST! "Wooooo!"

All the census can really tell us is what people identify themselves as being (taking Peregrinus's health warning about presumptuous parents into account). That said, it's the best approximation you are likely to find. The profile of Journal.ie users is not likely to reflect the population as a whole.

Benny_Cake · 19-10-2012 11:47AM

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Where are all these full churches you speak of gentlemen?

Because of the two I was forced to attend as a child 1 has been halved in size to become a community centre and the other only puts on half as much masses due to the tiny congregation. Anecdotal evidence is easy. Loads of young people at churches? Probably the Mammy sending them. See?

It really varies from place to place, some churches are close to empty, while some are packed. One thing I've noticed (and this is only my personal experience) is that those who attend Mass tend to fall largely into two categories: older people, and families with primary school aged children. I don't see young single people, or even young couples without children, or teenagers. From personal experience, you can really feel left out as a single person on a Sunday (I no longer attend and am no longer single, but that was my experience).

I think that one thing we can be certain about is that church attendance is down significantly in the last 30 years, although the decline varies greatly from place to place.

Doctor DooM · 19-10-2012 11:50AM

Benny_Cake wrote: »

All the census can really tell us is what people identify themselves as being (taking Peregrinus's health warning about presumptuous parents into account). That said, it's the best approximation you are likely to find. The profile of Journal.ie users is not likely to reflect the population as a whole.

Does it matter what they identify as when they don't believe in any of it or partake the rituals other than the basist of lip service?

I believe there was another recent survey done where I think over 40% of people who identified as Catholic said Ireland would be no worse off if the RCC withdrew from the country. To me, that is mind boggling. I'll dig it up.

Benny_Cake · 19-10-2012 12:03PM

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Does it matter what they identify as when they don't believe in any of it or partake the rituals other than the basist of lip service?

I believe there was another recent survey done where I think over 40% of people who identified as Catholic said Ireland would be no worse off if the RCC withdrew from the country. To me, that is mind boggling. I'll dig it up.

In one way, it probably doesn't matter, although I suspect in terms of the big life events - birth, marriages, deaths - they still approach these bingo a church context. That's not particularly unusual as a lot of other European countries are like that too.

With regard to the 40% statistic, it doesn't really surprise me. A lot of practising Catholics are as furious with the institution of the church over what has gone on as anyone else, but they would still see their own faith as something important to them, despite the failings of the institution. I remember seeing an interview with an American priest who said the best thing to happen to the church would be for all the money and positions of power to be taken away and all that would be left was the Gospel. Looking at the photos of Archbishop Dolan laughing it up with Romney and Obama the other night makes me think he had a point.

GarIT · 19-10-2012 12:46PM

Just another thing I remembered, a relitive of mine makes quite a lot of padeo preist jokes and hates the RCC yet put down Cathoulic to 'show respect for their parents beliefs'. People really are idiots with how they fill out the census.

I'm going to have to say something I tend to say a lot. If i stand in my garden and tell everone that passes that I'm actually inside my house that doesn't mean I'm actually in my house. Similarly, if i tell everyone I'm Catholic it doesnt actually make me a Catholic unless I follow the Catholic way of life etc.

eviltwin · 19-10-2012 01:38PM

Benny_Cake wrote: »

It really varies from place to place, some churches are close to empty, while some are packed. One thing I've noticed (and this is only my personal experience) is that those who attend Mass tend to fall largely into two categories: older people, and families with primary school aged children.

I wonder would they just be there to show their faces in advance of Communion or Confirmation

Benny_Cake · 19-10-2012 01:47PM

eviltwin wrote: »

I wonder would they just be there to show their faces in advance of Communion or Confirmation

I suspect that is a large part of it alright. Also, in many ways the local national schools have been a huge asset to the church in building relationships with the local families. Where I grew up in Dublin, people tended to go outside of the local area for secondary school and that's when involvement in the local church seemed to tail off in many cases.

vicwatson · 19-10-2012 01:54PM

Like the positioning of "No Religion" on this census of 2011 ? Hmmmmm

ehcocmeo · 19-10-2012 01:55PM

joseph brand wrote: »

There was a poll on The Journal.ie

Census figures are quite misleading, for various reasons.

Case in point: my wife classed our family of four as catholics in the census. I never saw the forms. None of us go to mass. I don't even know anyone who goes to mass, except my dad. And even he says the cathedral is pretty empty. Those who are there are old.

This idea of catholics believing something which is false? You're free to believe that the churches are packed every Sunday. Doesn't make it true.

JOURNAL.IE POLL!!.... Come on.

Sarky · 19-10-2012 04:01PM

How many churches are full because people from various parishes are travelling to the one place that will actually do a service, seeing as their local just can't get the numbers to do more than a service every other week? That's how it goes where my parents are from, anyway.

Peregrinus · 19-10-2012 04:02PM

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Does it matter what they identify as when they don't believe in any of it or partake the rituals other than the basist of lip service?

But we don't know that.

We know that a lot of them rarely go to mass. But there's a big gap between "rarely goes to mass" and "doesn't believe in any of it, or partake the rituals other than the basest of lip service".

My starting presumption is that if somebody identifies as Catholic - or, for that matter, as Atheist - that means something, and probably something fairly significant. But there's a pretty wide range of things it could plausibly mean, and if I want to narrow it down a bit my only option is to ask him what he means.

I'm regularly amused at the readiness of Christian boardies to tell us what atheists mean when they call themselves atheist, and of atheist boardies to tell us what Christians or Catholics mean when they call themselves Christians or Catholics. These pontifications tell us more about the person doing the pontificating than they do about the people being pontificated about.

Davyhal · 19-10-2012 04:15PM

I'm a man of 24, and I'd still go to Mass occasionally (once every month or two) and I will say this much for mass... some serious talent to be spotted at the big masses!

Number of Catholics at record high

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