The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 2)

J C · 17-10-2012 09:06PM

systemsready wrote: »

Well...why would you offer these quotes as evidence that man is allowed only 1 wife. I assume that was the reason you offered them meaning you made an interpretation that they supported the 1 wife only rule which God never said.

God has said that we should have one wife.

The fact that some of the prophets and kings of the Old Testament behaved sinfully by having more than one wife ... doesn't alter the fact that we should marry one woman and cleave to her for life, becoming 'one flesh' with her and forsaking all others.

The fact that King David, for example, went as far as arranging the death of the husband of a married woman that he lusted after, showed the depth of his sinfullness ... and doesn't indicates that this was acceptable.

systemsready · 18-10-2012 09:31AM

J C wrote: »

God has said that we should have one wife.

The fact that some of the prophets and kings of the Old Testament behaved sinfully by having more than one wife ... doesn't alter the fact that we should marry one woman and cleave to her for life, becoming 'one flesh' with her and forsaking all others.

The fact that King David, for example, went as far as arranging the death of the husband of a married woman that he lusted after, showed the depth of his sinfullness ... and doesn't indicates that this was acceptable.

So if we think along those lines...Jacob sinned and God did not recognise the second wife Rachel...meaning that the sons of rachel ..Joseph and Benjamin are (i dont want to say the word..God forgive me for this but I must point it out)
So a Prophet (Joseph) can be born from an illegitimate marriage?

Or do they (the scholars that be) have a way of twisting this as well?

systemsready · 18-10-2012 09:35AM

J C wrote: »

I hate to disagree with you, because your heart is obviously in the right place ... and you have enough opposition from the Atheists on this thread, without me joining in!!!

However, I must point out that all animals are potentially subject to disease ... and therefore potential causes of disease or food poisoning.
For example, cattle can be infected with a whole list of Zoonotic diseases ranging from Brucellosis to TB ... yet their use for food isn't banned in the Bible.
Any disease present in meat can be easily neutralised by proper cooking ... and this applies to all meat, including pigmeat.

It is thought that the ban on swine (which both Jews and Muslims observe) had it's root in the fact that swine don't have sweat glands and therefore need to wallow in mud to cool down ... which would create major problems in an arid region, like the Middle East, where clean water is scarce and therefore highly valued.

A swine farmer wouldn't be very popular if his pigs regularly mucked up the only water source in the village ... thereby making it undrinkable!!!
... and this is probably the reason why this potentially anti-social issue was resolved by banning the keeping and eating of swine using Dietary Law.
Cattle and other grazing animals don't need to wallow ... and they only require water to drink ... without the anti-social and water wasting wallowing that pigs engage in.

Thats twisting JC..sorry mate but thats how I see it. Its not for us to say why God forbids something and then we in our intelligence decide that the reason God forbade it is ........etc etc...and now we dont need to follow Gods Laws because we are really clever and have found our own way...saying to God..thanks but no thanks.
I rather listen to God than someone who is only on the earth for a few decades and cant possibly understand the world and its nature as God does.

shizz · 18-10-2012 10:08AM

systemsready wrote: »

not all the way...there must be something that always existed ..otherwise its absurd

Why? How do you know how it works outside the universe? If there is anything at all.

systemsready · 18-10-2012 11:45AM

shizz wrote: »

Why? How do you know how it works outside the universe? If there is anything at all.

Is there an OUTSIDE of this universe? And if there isnt an outside..does the universe stop or is it infinite?

tommy2bad · 18-10-2012 02:26PM

systemsready wrote: »

Is there an OUTSIDE of this universe? And if there isnt an outside..does the universe stop or is it infinite?

So God is located inside this universe? Not in any christian theology or Jewish, pagan yes.

systemsready · 18-10-2012 03:06PM

tommy2bad wrote: »

So God is located inside this universe? Not in any christian theology or Jewish, pagan yes.

Maybe you misread my post

Fanny Cradock · 18-10-2012 09:55PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I don't have a particular view on Jewish dietary laws, but at least I have an idea what they actually are.

Well tell us a little about them then. You have on a couple of occasions told systemsready how ignorant he/ she is about the kashrut laws - and that might well be true. I suspect that very few of of us are experts here. In that regard, I think that now would be a good time to start gently correcting any mistakes that you are aware of.

I'm quite interested in Judaism so if you have anything constructive to offer on the customs - past or present - please do so.

Monty Burnz · 18-10-2012 11:39PM

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Well tell us a little about them then. You have on a couple of occasions told systemsready how ignorant he/ she is about the kashrut laws - and that might well be true.
I'm quite interested in Judaism so if you have anything constructive to offer on the customs - past or present - please do so.

If Systemsready ever gets tired of lecturing us on the merits of different types of excrement sandwich, he can spend ten minutes educating himself about the subject on Wikipedia. That way his next bizarre rant will be on a firmer footing.

I still suspect there's an element of Poe's Law going on here, but it's not really my place to be policing that sort of thing so I'll say no more.

systemsready · 19-10-2012 10:07AM

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Well tell us a little about them then. You have on a couple of occasions told systemsready how ignorant he/ she is about the kashrut laws - and that might well be true. I suspect that very few of of us are experts here. In that regard, I think that now would be a good time to start gently correcting any mistakes that you are aware of.

I'm quite interested in Judaism so if you have anything constructive to offer on the customs - past or present - please do so.

That was an excellent call of Monty's bluff!

systemsready · 19-10-2012 10:10AM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I'll say no more.

Is that a promise?

Gerry T · 19-10-2012 10:54AM

systemsready wrote: »

Is that a promise?

Now that's misrepresenting what was said - Monty was saying he would "say no more" regarding policing.
I would guess the dietary laws at the time were specific to the geographical location, so the lack of drinking water would mean an animal that rolls around in water is not great in such a climate -- not really an issue in Ireland. Pigs do not eat their excrement, because it has no nutritional value. They will eat human excrement because we don't digest our food and the waste has nutritional value -- but pigs would not eat that if they had fresh food available. Its because us humans starve the animal and give it excrement, a form or torture really. Other animals have no such problem in eating their own excrement -- chickens for example. Am I right in saying Jesus came to earth to sacrifice himself to save humanity, really do you think he was that bothered to say you can't eat meat and drink milk at the same time, or that if an animal is not slaughtered in a specific way that it's not fit to eat ? these sound like laws made up by men, probably built around the climate and hygiene. If Jesus came to Ireland, Iceland, Canada, Russia you would find the laws written would be very different.
Jesus didn't write the bible, man did, I'm going out on a limb here but was the bible not written decades after Jesus was on earth - don't kill me on this one, its something I heard and I can't prove this, it's more of a question really. But if that is the case, how would the second world war be recorded today if nothing was written until now ??

Benny_Cake · 19-10-2012 11:35AM

systemsready wrote: »

Is that a promise?

Systemsready, stop goading other posters. Tackle the post, not the poster.

maguffin · 19-10-2012 01:03PM

Gerry T wrote: »

......
Jesus didn't write the bible, man did, I'm going out on a limb here but was the bible not written decades after Jesus was on earth - don't kill me on this one, its something I heard and I can't prove this, it's more of a question really. But if that is the case, how would the second world war be recorded today if nothing was written until now ??

The Bible was written over a period of 1400 to 1800 years by more than 40 different authors. The Bible is a compilation of 66 separate books, divided into two primary divisions: the Old Testament (containing 39 books) and the New Testament (containing 27 books). It is believed that all of the books of the Bible were written under inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

The first five books of the Old Testament (known as the Pentateuch or Torah) was written by Moses during the forty years that the children of Israel wandered in the wilderness (1450 - 1410 B.C.). The twelve historical books of the Old Testament continue to record the history of the people of Israel under the leadership of Joshua, through the period of the Judges and the reign of the kings of Israel. The books of Ezra, Nehemiah, and Esther record the history of Israel following its period of captivity under Babylonian rule. The historical books span the history of Israel from 1050 - 465 B.C.

The books of Job, the Psalms, the Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Solomon are considered the poetical books of the Old Testament. Scholars have been unable to determine with any specificity when Job was written. Based upon the manners and customs recorded in the text, many believe that the book was written during the time of the Patriarchs of the faith. The individual Psalms, comprising the entire collection, were written from the days of Israel's Exodus to its restoration after the Babylonian captivity. Many of the Psalms were written by King David during his reign over Israel. The entire book was compiled between 1000 - 300 B.C.

King David's son, Solomon is credited with writing Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and Song of Solomon, during his reign (971 - 931 B.C.). The seventeen Prophetical books of the major and minor prophets span Israel's history from 700 - 450 B.C. For 400 years after the writing of the Book of Malachi, the Lord was silent (for some unknown reason!!) and the Old Testament was closed.

It is generally agreed that the Book of Mark was the first Gospel written and that it was written between A.D. 50 and 75. Of the four Gospel's, John's is considered to have been the last one written, around A.D. 85. The Book of Acts, a historical account of the establishment of the early Christian church, is believed to have been written by one of the Apostle Paul's associates, around A.D. 62 (near the end of Paul's imprisonment in Rome).

The Pauline Epistles (the Apostle Paul's letters to the early church) were authored between A.D. 50 - 67. The author of Hebrews is unknown, but the book is commonly thought to have been written around A.D. 70. The epistles of the other Apostles were written between A.D. 48 - 90.

The Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ is believed to have been penned by the Apostle John between A.D. 70 - 95.

Gerry T · 19-10-2012 03:09PM

"The Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ is believed to have been penned by the Apostle John between A.D. 70 - 95. "

Since none of the bible was a direct transcript from Jesus to paper its conceivable that some of the bible authors may have thrown in some of their own interpretations, its probable that the laws around types of food consumption and food preparation had everything to do with the climate, that would be a reasonable conclusion. It really does not make any sense that it’s ok to kill and eat some animals and not others - doesn't sound in any way plausible. If Jesus came today and said " thou shall not eat pork" and someone said, sure we have fridges and thermostatically controlled ovens, Jesus would probably then say, "ah sure in that case, thou shall feast on pork and apple sauce". It sort of sounds like a bit of an enid blyton story when you really think about it. What’s the whole mystery about it, why can't God just categorically show proof that he exists, why not ?? then if people stray, and I’m sure they would - ok into hell for a time period. But that’s not going to happen.
If people want to believe I see nothing wrong with that, if that belief brings happiness and contentment then that’s great. But that’s not a good enough reason to quote the bible to prove God exists, neither God or Jesus wrote the bible, they didn’t say to some author, grab a pen and start writing this down, it’s a man written book on historical events, seen through the eyes of a man - how can that really be taken as gospel (excuse the pun!)

systemsready · 19-10-2012 03:12PM

Gerry T wrote: »

Jesus would probably then say, "ah sure in that case, thou shall feast on pork and apple sauce"

So you think Jesus may come back and this time he may appear in the form of a Paddy?

Lelantos · 19-10-2012 03:20PM

systemsready wrote: »

So you think Jesus may come back and this time he may appear in the form of a Paddy?

Ladies & Gentlemen, I give you the saviour of the wooorld, Enda Kenny!

Gerry T · 19-10-2012 03:34PM

If he did come back as a paddy I wonder could we get Trappatoni to take a look at him, because we sure need some divine inspiration in that dept !!

systemsready · 19-10-2012 03:49PM

Gerry T wrote: »

If he did come back as a paddy I wonder could we get Trappatoni to take a look at him, because we sure need some divine inspiration in that dept !!

You mean have trappatoni replaced by an apostle?

AtomicHorror · 19-10-2012 06:08PM

J C wrote: »

I hate to disagree with you, because your heart is obviously in the right place ... and you have enough opposition from the Atheists on this thread, without me joining in!!!

However, I must point out that all animals are potentially subject to disease ... and therefore potential causes of disease or food poisoning.
For example, cattle can be infected with a whole list of Zoonotic diseases ranging from Brucellosis to TB ... yet their use for food isn't banned in the Bible.
Any disease present in meat can be easily neutralised by proper cooking ... and this applies to all meat, including pigmeat.

It is thought that the ban on swine (which both Jews and Muslims observe) had it's root in the fact that swine don't have sweat glands and therefore need to wallow in mud to cool down ... which would create major problems in an arid region, like the Middle East, where clean water is scarce and therefore highly valued.

A swine farmer wouldn't be very popular if his pigs regularly mucked up the only water source in the village ... thereby making it undrinkable!!!
... and this is probably the reason why this potentially anti-social issue was resolved by banning the keeping and eating of swine using Dietary Law.
Cattle and other grazing animals don't need to wallow ... and they only require water to drink ... without the anti-social and water wasting wallowing that pigs engage in.

That... makes perfectly good sense. :eek::pac::pac::pac:

systemsready · 19-10-2012 07:36PM

AtomicHorror wrote: »

That... makes perfectly good sense. :eek::pac::pac::pac:

Yeah I guess you are right..what was I thinking? I must have been really silly to think that God is always right. I suppose I have to start maybe thinking that God is not always the last word on things. Other peoples opinions are just as valid as Gods. I mean, who does God think he is?? God??

The sheer audacity of mankind..they think they have brought themselves into existence.

AtomicHorror · 19-10-2012 10:02PM

systemsready wrote: »

Yeah I guess you are right..what was I thinking? I must have been really silly to think that God is always right. I suppose I have to start maybe thinking that God is not always the last word on things. Other peoples opinions are just as valid as Gods. I mean, who does God think he is?? God??

The sheer audacity of mankind..they think they have brought themselves into existence.

These half-assed sarky garbage answers are getting really tiresome. Is that meant to be witty? Feel like throwing an eye-rolling smiley in there in case we all missed it?

I mean really, what are you talking about? What does this have to do with my response to J_C? He's made a more plausible interpretation of scripture than you have and I was recognizing a rare moment in which he and I agree on something. His position is far more reasonable than yours, and that's coming from someone who normally pans J_C's reasoning. You on the other hand have some very poorly-defined, internally inconsistent and yet- paradoxically- weirdly inflexible ideas about scripture. You've failed to convince pretty much everyone and yet you're filling pages and pages with this stuff.

systemsready · 19-10-2012 10:26PM

AtomicHorror wrote: »

These half-assed sarky garbage answers are getting really tiresome. Is that meant to be witty? Feel like throwing an eye-rolling smiley in there in case we all missed it?

I mean really, what are you talking about? What does this have to do with my response to J_C? He's made a more plausible interpretation of scripture than you have and I was recognizing a rare moment in which he and I agree on something. His position is far more reasonable than yours, and that's coming from someone who normally pans J_C's reasoning. You on the other hand have some very poorly-defined, internally inconsistent and yet- paradoxically- weirdly inflexible ideas about scripture. You've failed to convince pretty much everyone and yet you're filling pages and pages with this stuff.

Are you suggesting I should begin 'dumbing down' my posts?

AtomicHorror · 19-10-2012 10:31PM

systemsready wrote: »

Are you suggesting I should begin 'dumbing down' my posts?

Impossible. The only way is up.

systemsready · 20-10-2012 09:47AM

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Impossible. The only way is up.

That will prove far too complicated for you.

Might I suggest for future reading you use the "Easy Read Version of the Bible" ERV.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+1&version=ERV

systemsready · 20-10-2012 09:49AM

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I was recognizing a rare moment in which he and I agree on something.

BTW sorry to have butted in there on your 'moment'

Benny_Cake · 20-10-2012 11:50AM

Systemsready - take a three day break, and learn to behave yourself.

AtomicHorror · 20-10-2012 06:17PM

systemsready wrote: »

That will prove far too complicated for you.

Might I suggest for future reading you use the "Easy Read Version of the Bible" ERV.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+1&version=ERV

Thanks for the link, appreciate it! Enjoy your holiday!

systemsready · 23-10-2012 02:31PM

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Thanks for the link, appreciate it! Enjoy your holiday!

Hahaha

J C · 25-10-2012 08:20PM

systemsready wrote: »

Hahaha

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The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 2)

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