Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Dosing

2

Comments

  • #32
    Manoffeeling
    Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭Manoffeeling


    bbam wrote: »
    Sounds like a coarse inaccurate method to me.
    These medicens have specific dose rates for successful results and by lashing a go of it onto meal and hoping for the best you have no control at all.

    Some will be put off by the dose and some will gorge themselves and get way over the dosage. I know I sound like LC but you need to administer the correct dose for the animal. Anything else is potentially dangerous, ineffective and money waisted. And as Whelan1 said, it's just plain lazy. If your going to have stock look after them properly!


    He feeds his cows through those fancy head lock feed rails. This guy is no fool and is far from lazy. Don't knock it until you see it.

    Enjoy the sun!!!!!


  • #33
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    Manoffeeling wrote: »
    He feeds his cows through those fancy head lock feed rails. This guy is no fool and is far from lazy. Don't knock it until you see it.

    Enjoy the sun!!!!!

    Don't ever want to see it.
    If its worth doing its worth doing right.


  • #34
    roran
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 96 ✭✭roran


    pakalasa wrote: »
    You know, I think mine may have worms. They're both young cows that I bred myself. Overdosing is just as bad as undedosing. Their natural immunity doesn't seem to develop as good, if they are overdosed.

    What part of Clare are you in OP? I use a lab in Portumna to test dung samples for worms and fluke. They need your vet details also, but you will know results same day and they are very reasonable (less than 10 Euro). Your vet will tell you what you need to target dosing. PM me if you want more info.


  • #35
    LostCovey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭LostCovey


    roran wrote: »
    What part of Clare are you in OP? I use a lab in Portumna to test dung samples for worms and fluke. They need your vet details also, but you will know results same day and they are very reasonable (less than 10 Euro). Your vet will tell you what you need to target dosing. PM me if you want more info.


    If it is Paralabs, I have used them a few times and they are fantastic.

    http://www.paralabs.ie/


  • #36
    LostCovey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭LostCovey


    bbam wrote: »
    I know I sound like LC

    Cough cough


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    LostCovey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭LostCovey


    LostCovey wrote: »
    What basis is there to routinely dose for rumen fluke~? Isn't it somehting that just causes problems in an odd place in a bad year?

    What do you mean by burdens - eggs in the dung?

    Loads of cattle will have that, from small harmless numbers of rumen flukes.

    This sounds mad to me, but maybe there is some reasoning behind it - open to hearing it.

    LC

    Ah Jaysis am I having to argue with meself.

    OK.

    That is plainly ridiculous LC. Everybody knows there is loads of animals dying from rumen fluke and if you don't dose everything for it once a month, you're a messer. The Journal sez so.


  • #38
    roran
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 96 ✭✭roran


    LostCovey wrote: »
    If it is Paralabs, I have used them a few times and they are fantastic.

    http://www.paralabs.ie/


    They are the guys I use.


  • #39
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    LostCovey wrote: »
    Cough cough

    Careful there with that cough. Someone here will give you a jab of something. Or just throw it over your dinner and hope you eat the right amount ;)


  • #40
    Manoffeeling
    Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭Manoffeeling


    bbam wrote: »
    Careful there with that cough. Someone here will give you a jab of something. Or just throw it over your dinner and hope you eat the right amount ;)

    Or in the shampoo


  • #41
    Grecco
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭Grecco


    Injuryprone wrote: »

    Am planning to put them through the parlour in 10 days time, throw a kilo or 2 of ration into the troughs and pour the zanil in on top of the ration. Hopefully that shouldn't stress them too much,
    whelan1 wrote: »
    wtf:eek: have never in all my life heard of such a lazy atitude, what if they dont eat it... waste of time and money... put them down the crush , catch them and dose them, then at least you know they have it.... if i can do it anyone can

    Have to agree with Whelan here, jezz I missed that post;
    Get off you backside and dose them properly


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    Injuryprone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭Injuryprone


    I tried out dosing the cows in the parlour in January, mixing it with 2kgs of coarse ration. You'd want to have them fairly hungry for them to clean out the troughs properly. Out of 60 animals, 3 didn't touch it so they were done the 'normal' way in the crush on the way out. I can walk down behind the troughs in the parlour which makes it handier to do the job, I suppose.
    Got the result from the first herd health screening of the bulk milk back a few weeks back and it showed an almost total kill of fluke. Same test showed I had a problem last year. So I'm happy enough.
    From what I gather from listening to Doreen Corridan at a Munster Herd Health meeting, a lot of people are trying out this method with good results. It was the sales rep from CAHL that suggested it to me.
    For me it wasn't a question of being lazy, it was the huge stress reduction over dosing heavily incalf cows that was the main reason for doing it that way. Anyway, every man to himself, I suppose. 95% accuracy will do me.


  • #43
    Muckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,173 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    whelan1 wrote: »
    wtf:eek: have never in all my life heard of such a lazy atitude, what if they dont eat it... waste of time and money... put them down the crush , catch them and dose them, then at least you know they have it.... if i can do it anyone can

    You'I love this one whelan1..............

    I know a dairy lad that throws the dry milk replacer powder in a trough and lets the calves lick it up!!! He has a separate big water trough in the pen. 'sure can't they mix it up themselves' he told me:rolleyes: Reckons it's the right job. He has made enquiries into seeing if he can get the replacer pelleted


  • #44
    Manoffeeling
    Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭Manoffeeling


    I had a calf once that would not drink milk so had to mix the powder in the meal with sugar. He turned out ok.


  • #45
    eddiek
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70 ✭✭eddiek


    going back to the hook dosing gun here.am i right in thinking, put the cattle tight in the crush and walk down beside them and administer dose, with a bit of humouring on them of course! i dont have to put each ones head in the gate individually?


  • #46
    bob charles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭bob charles


    bbam wrote: »
    Sounds like a coarse inaccurate method to me.
    These medicens have specific dose rates for successful results and by lashing a go of it onto meal and hoping for the best you have no control at all.

    Some will be put off by the dose and some will gorge themselves and get way over the dosage. I know I sound like LC but you need to administer the correct dose for the animal. Anything else is potentially dangerous, ineffective and money waisted. And as Whelan1 said, it's just plain lazy. If your going to have stock look after them properly!

    didn't see this thread back a few months ago but its pretty much the norm for doing our second dose in the feed. if it wasn't done in the feed it wouldn't be done at all. I know exactly how much TMR the bunches of animals are eating, mostly around 2.5% DM of bodyweight give or take differences between males/females. All animals will eat a proportion to their body weight unless they are off there diet which you should have noticed in the first place. When say 50ml of product are mixed with 40kgs of feed (daily feed intake), animals will not notice the product and I have never seen a drop in intakes when the dose has being administrated. Main reasons for treating in this manner is down to animal welfare issues. Is it effective, well when the animals are slaughtered and showing no signs of a worm burden thats good enough for me. I would only be treating for worms in the feed though and wouldn't use a rumen fluke product in this way. the rumen fluke product is administrated on point of entry through the crush.

    Anyone remember what was said when some of us started administrating some vaccines intra-nasally

    Just to add, i fed the animals 5 grams per animal of one product and 10 grams per animal of another product through the TMR each day, is this also wasted money - i think not as I see the results each day


  • #47
    PMU
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 635 ✭✭✭PMU


    Muckit wrote: »
    You'I love this one whelan1..............

    I know a dairy lad that throws the dry milk replacer powder in a trough and lets the calves lick it up!!! He has a separate big water trough in the pen. 'sure can't they mix it up themselves' he told me:rolleyes: Reckons it's the right job. He has made enquiries into seeing if he can get the replacer pelleted
    i am doing this for some small calves( 75 KG), 1 kg powder and 5 kgs coarse ration for 6 calves. they are eating it fine on grass


  • #48
    49801
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭49801


    eddiek wrote: »
    going back to the hook dosing gun here.am i right in thinking, put the cattle tight in the crush and walk down beside them and administer dose, with a bit of humouring on them of course! i dont have to put each ones head in the gate individually?

    spot on.
    start at the back of the line though... they'll find it harder to see you coming;)
    usually give albex to the cows with a hook for the winter but its a bit thick to be pumping with a dosing gun. try and use a light product if you can


  • #49
    bigdaddy1896
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8 ✭bigdaddy1896


    another good way to see if cattle have fluke is if your slaughtering cattle ask for analysis of liver, more accurate than dung samples.


  • #50
    keep going
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,551 ✭✭✭keep going


    time is coming for dosing the cows at drying off so what are ye going to do.thinking of going with zanil,injectable invertamin and a"spot on"product for lice and then following it up with albex in 8 weeks


  • #51
    whelan1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭whelan1


    we do with endospec 10% at drying and zanil at calving... pour on for lice about 4 or 5 weeks after housing, also get rotavec corona at drying. There is a fasinex dose out soon , withdrawal is 60 days for milk


  • Advertisement
  • #52
    Manoffeeling
    Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭Manoffeeling


    I was at my suckler group last week. Dosing came up and I suggested throwing it on the meal. Most agreed with me with one guy going further and mixing it through the diet feeder.


  • #53
    whelan1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭whelan1


    i would be the kind of person that actually likes to see it going down the throat ... only in a mad fooker that i couldnt catch would i put it on meal


  • #54
    Milkymoos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26 ✭Milkymoos


    keep going wrote: »
    time is coming for dosing the cows at drying off so what are ye going to do.thinking of going with zanil,injectable invertamin and a"spot on"product for lice and then following it up with albex in 8 weeks

    If your injecting with ivermectin at housing or after that should take care of the worms so no real need to use albex in 8 weeks for worms. If you do have a confirmed rumen fluke problem then I would just treat with zanil at 8 weeks aswell instead. You could use fasinex 24 for a very good fluke clean out at drying, far superior product on liver fluke then any albendazole based drench e.g albex, endospec . Milk withdrawal for fasinex is 35 days plus 48 hours I think. Use zanil 8 weeks later for rumen fluke then. With lice would wait till everything is in and then treat all with pour-on. If lice infestation is heavy you may have to go in again after 3 weeks but should then get a descent kill.


  • #55
    whelan1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭whelan1


    Milkymoos wrote: »
    If your injecting with ivermectin at housing or after that should take care of the worms so no real need to use albex in 8 weeks for worms. If you do have a confirmed rumen fluke problem then I would just treat with zanil at 8 weeks aswell instead. You could use fasinex 24 for a very good fluke clean out at drying, far superior product on liver fluke then any albendazole based drench e.g albex, endospec . Milk withdrawal for fasinex is 35 days plus 48 hours I think. Use zanil 8 weeks later for rumen fluke then. With lice would wait till everything is in and then treat all with pour-on. If lice infestation is heavy you may have to go in again after 3 weeks but should then get a descent kill.
    was in vets on monday and afair he said 60 day milk withdrawal for fasinex


  • #56
    Black Smoke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭Black Smoke


    I read an article recentky, on trials done in Australia, on dosing animals.
    The conclusion was, that dosing is most effective, when the animals, rumens were empty.
    Recommendation was, that the animals should be housed 18 to 24 hours before dosing, without access to food or water.
    Then dosed, and no food or water for a further 4 hours after dosing.
    Sort of makes sense when you think about it.
    Must try find a link to the article and post it later.


  • #57
    Milkymoos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26 ✭Milkymoos


    whelan1 wrote: »
    was in vets on monday and afair he said 60 day milk withdrawal for fasinex

    Meat is 56 days withdrawal, milk withdrawal is 35 days plus 48 hours post calving. Pretty sure of this.


  • #58
    keep going
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,551 ✭✭✭keep going


    Milkymoos wrote: »
    If your injecting with ivermectin at housing or after that should take care of the worms so no real need to use albex in 8 weeks for worms. If you do have a confirmed rumen fluke problem then I would just treat with zanil at 8 weeks aswell instead. You could use fasinex 24 for a very good fluke clean out at drying, far superior product on liver fluke then any albendazole based drench e.g albex, endospec . Milk withdrawal for fasinex is 35 days plus 48 hours I think. Use zanil 8 weeks later for rumen fluke then. With lice would wait till everything is in and then treat all with pour-on. If lice infestation is heavy you may have to go in again after 3 weeks but should then get a descent kill.

    but dont you have to kill the imature fluke that zanil dosent get.part of the reason i posted is to get more info about products.dont know if i have a rumen fluke proplem but i have the dose anyway.you need a spoton product with ivomec to kill the "biting" lice.ps how will they know whether you used fasinex or fasinex240;)


  • #59
    pakalasa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭pakalasa


    I did a young teaser bull (18 months) with Zanil about 2 weeks ago. I can see a huge improvment in him already. I've had a problem with scoury cows, on and off for a few years now. Vet even tested for Samonella about 5 years ago.I even went and earnotch BVD tested everything. I wonder now was it Rumen Fluke all along. We have some very low lying corcas type land. It's not like the Rumen Fluke appeared out of nowhere in the last year or two.

    I realise it could be Johne's Disease too.


  • #60
    vanderbadger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,087 ✭✭✭vanderbadger


    pakalasa wrote: »
    I did a young teaser bull (18 months) with Zanil about 2 weeks ago. I can see a huge improvment in him already. I've had a problem with scoury cows, on and off for a few years now. Vet even tested for Samonella about 5 years ago.I even went and earnotch BVD tested everything. I wonder now was it Rumen Fluke all along. We have some very low lying corcas type land. It's not like the Rumen Fluke appeared out of nowhere in the last year or two.

    I realise it could be Johne's Disease too.

    was there something in the journal the other week about research showing that wet or dry ground made no difference to fluke going against the common assumption that you could get away without dosing if you had good dry ground..maybe it wasnt journal, i read it somewhere anyway


  • Advertisement
  • #61
    Milkymoos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26 ✭Milkymoos


    keep going wrote: »
    but dont you have to kill the imature fluke that zanil dosent get.part of the reason i posted is to get more info about products.dont know if i have a rumen fluke proplem but i have the dose anyway.you need a spoton product with ivomec to kill the "biting" lice.ps how will they know whether you used fasinex or fasinex240;)

    Fair enough. Albex wont kill immature fluke either so what you are doing with albex/zanil after 8 weeks is killing the fluke that have matured since the last dose. re the spot on product for lice, you could use an ivermectin pour on and that will cover both biting & sucking lice as well as a good kill on worms. Re using fasinex 240 or fasinex 10%, when filling out the blue book or your board bia book, if department look into it and you used fasinex 10% or a generic instead of fasinex 240 they can start questioning why you used an off license product. Better to keep within the law really,would much rather use a licensed product where possible.


Advertisement