Dosing

whelan1

thought i would start a thread on dosing:) i dose all cows at drying off with either albex or endospec ... 1 cow in particular is quite thin and i dried her about a month ago, give her meal each day , gave her endospec, did her this morning with zanil, she has a swelling under her jaw, should i do her again with endospec as zanil only does mature fluke?

bob charles

Are you not routinely doing the milkers for rumen fluke, seen major problems, even a problem where farmer dosed cows for rumen fluke on the 1st of Nov and are 6 weeks cows were still showing a burden before second dose. I just told the individual to shorten the gap between treatments to avoid future problems

reilig

This thread is now under the "Important Threads and useful Information" Sticky. Please keep posts on topic and don't go off on tangents - this will help to make this thread a useful resource for all

6480

bob charles wrote: »

Are you not routinely doing the milkers for rumen fluke, seen major problems, even a problem where farmer dosed cows for rumen fluke on the 1st of Nov and are 6 weeks cows were still showing a burden before second dose. I just told the individual to shorten the gap between treatments to avoid future problems

i am not sayig u are wrong or anything but our vet says not to come back with another dose til about 9 or 10 weeks as to give the animal a chance to fight it herself , i asked another vet and he had the same answer .

blue5000

Is it a suckler or dairy cow? Is the ban on certain fluke doses still in place for dairy cows?

6480

blue5000 wrote: »

Is it a suckler or dairy cow? Is the ban on certain fluke doses still in place for dairy cows?

yes ur spot on hopefully this year there will be a few more new products launched on the market that dairy farmers can use

whelan1

its a dairy cow , but the rate shes going she wont be milking next lactation:cool: just interested in people advice...

Farm Master

I have a question oral dosing. I am thinking of getting a dosing hook. Do any of you use them and do they make life easier.

mattthetrasher

whelan did ya take any dung samples, we have been taking samples pre dosing now for about 2 years. at least you know if theres a need and what exactly that is.rumen fluke at high levels may also explain a high scc

6480

Farm Master wrote: »

I have a question oral dosing. I am thinking of getting a dosing hook. Do any of you use them and do they make life easier.

i bought one there and its the best yoke i ever bought, its a joy to use saves man and beast and time

dar31

Farm Master wrote: »

I have a question oral dosing. I am thinking of getting a dosing hook. Do any of you use them and do they make life easier.

the hook end for a dose gun is bloody brilliant.
philips dose gun 30ml with hook is what we use all the time, make sure the gun is one of the cast ones as the plastic ones dont take any abuse
and if you get one of the really awkward cows that keeps putting her head down inside the front cow, use the hook end under her jaw to pull her head up and catch by hand to do.

zanil at drying off and again the day they calve. will be taken down for 3 days min for antibiotics anhow

Injuryprone

dar31 wrote: »

zanil at drying off and again the day they calve. will be taken down for 3 days min for antibiotics anhow

I was advised at my herd health meeting not to dose with Zanil at calving, as it'll be an additional strain on the cow at a time when she's already under alot of pressure and it has been known to cause scouring iirc.

Was told to wait til they're inside permanently 8 weeks and then dose them. And try to be at least a week before calving.

Am planning to put them through the parlour in 10 days time, throw a kilo or 2 of ration into the troughs and pour the zanil in on top of the ration. Hopefully that shouldn't stress them too much,

Dunedin

whelan1 wrote: »

, she has a swelling under her jaw, ?

Swelling under the jaw is often Timber tongue. Is she frothing a bit or a bit empty looking.

TT - if it is that, is easily enough treatable

whelan1

Injuryprone wrote: »

Am planning to put them through the parlour in 10 days time, throw a kilo or 2 of ration into the troughs and pour the zanil in on top of the ration. Hopefully that shouldn't stress them too much,

wtf:eek: have never in all my life heard of such a lazy atitude, what if they dont eat it... waste of time and money... put them down the crush , catch them and dose them, then at least you know they have it.... if i can do it anyone can

Tipp Man

Dunedin wrote: »

Swelling under the jaw is often Timber tongue. Is she frothing a bit or a bit empty looking.

TT - if it is that, is easily enough treatable

Yeah have often had it in cattle, never on a cow though.

whelan1

is a swelling under the jaw also a sign of a heart problem ?

6480

whelan1 wrote: »

is a swelling under the jaw also a sign of a heart problem ?

it might be causing her not to eat as much as she should , had a mature cow with a similar problem few years ago but got her into the cull cow ring in time

badshot

whelan1 wrote: »

thought i would start a thread on dosing:) i dose all cows at drying off with either albex or endospec ... 1 cow in particular is quite thin and i dried her about a month ago, give her meal each day , gave her endospec, did her this morning with zanil, she has a swelling under her jaw, should i do her again with endospec as zanil only does mature fluke?

might just be an abcess
get your vet to look at it
if it is all it needs is to be lanced
and kept washed out for afew days

Injuryprone

whelan1 wrote: »

wtf:eek: have never in all my life heard of such a lazy atitude, what if they dont eat it... waste of time and money... put them down the crush , catch them and dose them, then at least you know they have it.... if i can do it anyone can

It's not a question of being lazy, (I dosed them "your" way back in december) I'm just trying to reduce stress on heavily in-calf cows that putting them through the crush might cause. If any of them don't eat it, then I'll just draft her to the crush. Cahl rep recommended the method, says a lot of people are doing it this way at this time of the year.

whelan1

so what happens if one cow doesnt eat it... the cow coming behind will eat it and get too much...what type of parlour do you have?

pakalasa

Quick question - Will zanil cover Liver Fluke also?

I have 2 cows very scoury at the moment. I did them with Zanil about 6 week ago. It ain't BVD(tested last year) or Copper (injected).
can't figure out what it could be? They're both home bred aswell.

redzerologhlen

pakalasa wrote: »

Quick question - Will zanil cover Liver Fluke also?

I have 2 cows very scoury at the moment. I did them with Zanil about 6 week ago. It ain't BVD(tested last year) or Copper (injected).
can't figure out what it could be? They're both home bred aswell.

I think it covers mature liver fluke only pak. Was talking to a rep in the co-op a few weeks back and he reckoned you should be careful not to overuse zanil because it's the only product on the Market for rumen fluke and they had seen a resistance start to build up in some herds where it was used alot.

Manoffeeling

Does anyone here pour the dosing over meal in troughs and then let in the cows? i saw a few guys at it and it works. better than hardship

1chippy

A lad told me last week to give a cow some baking soda around five minutes before orally dosing. supposed to rise different probs for dose to clear out. anyone heard of it.

LostCovey

bob charles wrote: »

Are you not routinely doing the milkers for rumen fluke, seen major problems, even a problem where farmer dosed cows for rumen fluke on the 1st of Nov and are 6 weeks cows were still showing a burden before second dose. I just told the individual to shorten the gap between treatments to avoid future problems

What basis is there to routinely dose for rumen fluke~? Isn't it somehting that just causes problems in an odd place in a bad year?

What do you mean by burdens - eggs in the dung?

Loads of cattle will have that, from small harmless numbers of rumen flukes.

This sounds mad to me, but maybe there is some reasoning behind it - open to hearing it.

LC

bbam

Manoffeeling wrote: »

Does anyone here pour the dosing over meal in troughs and then let in the cows? i saw a few guys at it and it works. better than hardship

Sounds like a coarse inaccurate method to me.
These medicens have specific dose rates for successful results and by lashing a go of it onto meal and hoping for the best you have no control at all.

Some will be put off by the dose and some will gorge themselves and get way over the dosage. I know I sound like LC but you need to administer the correct dose for the animal. Anything else is potentially dangerous, ineffective and money waisted. And as Whelan1 said, it's just plain lazy. If your going to have stock look after them properly!

whelan1

bbam wrote: »

Sounds like a coarse inaccurate method to me.
These medicens have specific dose rates for successful results and by lashing a go of it onto meal and hoping for the best you have no control at all.

Some will be put off by the dose and some will gorge themselves and get way over the dosage. I know I sound like LC but you need to administer the correct dose for the animal. Anything else is potentially dangerous, ineffective and money waisted. And as Whelan1 said, it's just plain lazy. If your going to have stock look after them properly!

if i can catch and dose stock then anyone can :cool:

Farmer Pudsey

Also with Oral dose's cattle should have an empty stomach for the dose to be totally effective against worm's and as well do not allow them access to food or water for 2 hour's ideally. Another issue is that with putting the dose on the ration is if cattle do not get the proper amount then we can have worm immunity in the long term this is a huge issue with sheep.

Tora Bora

Been some commentary in the farming rags, recently about the growing prevalence of resistance to common cattle drugs:(
Now there is a change in thinking to dosing / injecting ONLY AFTER a give issue shows itself, as opposed to routine preventative treatments.

What do ye think?

Of course, the routine preventative treatments have been a cash cow for the pharma companies. Maybe we farmers followed the pharma line too faithfully. Lining their pockets, and tearing the arse out of our own

pakalasa

You know, I think mine may have worms. They're both young cows that I bred myself. Overdosing is just as bad as undedosing. Their natural immunity doesn't seem to develop as good, if they are overdosed.

6480

pakalasa wrote: »

You know, I think mine may have worms. They're both young cows that I bred myself. Overdosing is just as bad as undedosing. Their natural immunity doesn't seem to develop as good, if they are overdosed.

get a hook dosing gun its nearly fun dosing cattle then

Manoffeeling

bbam wrote: »

Sounds like a coarse inaccurate method to me.
These medicens have specific dose rates for successful results and by lashing a go of it onto meal and hoping for the best you have no control at all.

Some will be put off by the dose and some will gorge themselves and get way over the dosage. I know I sound like LC but you need to administer the correct dose for the animal. Anything else is potentially dangerous, ineffective and money waisted. And as Whelan1 said, it's just plain lazy. If your going to have stock look after them properly!

He feeds his cows through those fancy head lock feed rails. This guy is no fool and is far from lazy. Don't knock it until you see it.

Enjoy the sun!!!!!

bbam

Manoffeeling wrote: »

He feeds his cows through those fancy head lock feed rails. This guy is no fool and is far from lazy. Don't knock it until you see it.

Enjoy the sun!!!!!

Don't ever want to see it.
If its worth doing its worth doing right.

roran

pakalasa wrote: »

You know, I think mine may have worms. They're both young cows that I bred myself. Overdosing is just as bad as undedosing. Their natural immunity doesn't seem to develop as good, if they are overdosed.

What part of Clare are you in OP? I use a lab in Portumna to test dung samples for worms and fluke. They need your vet details also, but you will know results same day and they are very reasonable (less than 10 Euro). Your vet will tell you what you need to target dosing. PM me if you want more info.

LostCovey

roran wrote: »

What part of Clare are you in OP? I use a lab in Portumna to test dung samples for worms and fluke. They need your vet details also, but you will know results same day and they are very reasonable (less than 10 Euro). Your vet will tell you what you need to target dosing. PM me if you want more info.

If it is Paralabs, I have used them a few times and they are fantastic.

http://www.paralabs.ie/

LostCovey

bbam wrote: »

I know I sound like LC

Cough cough

LostCovey

LostCovey wrote: »

What basis is there to routinely dose for rumen fluke~? Isn't it somehting that just causes problems in an odd place in a bad year?

What do you mean by burdens - eggs in the dung?

Loads of cattle will have that, from small harmless numbers of rumen flukes.

This sounds mad to me, but maybe there is some reasoning behind it - open to hearing it.

LC

Ah Jaysis am I having to argue with meself.

OK.

That is plainly ridiculous LC. Everybody knows there is loads of animals dying from rumen fluke and if you don't dose everything for it once a month, you're a messer. The Journal sez so.

roran

LostCovey wrote: »

If it is Paralabs, I have used them a few times and they are fantastic.

http://www.paralabs.ie/

They are the guys I use.

bbam

LostCovey wrote: »

Cough cough

Careful there with that cough. Someone here will give you a jab of something. Or just throw it over your dinner and hope you eat the right amount

Manoffeeling

bbam wrote: »

Careful there with that cough. Someone here will give you a jab of something. Or just throw it over your dinner and hope you eat the right amount

Or in the shampoo

Grecco

Injuryprone wrote: »

Am planning to put them through the parlour in 10 days time, throw a kilo or 2 of ration into the troughs and pour the zanil in on top of the ration. Hopefully that shouldn't stress them too much,

whelan1 wrote: »

wtf:eek: have never in all my life heard of such a lazy atitude, what if they dont eat it... waste of time and money... put them down the crush , catch them and dose them, then at least you know they have it.... if i can do it anyone can

Have to agree with Whelan here, jezz I missed that post;
Get off you backside and dose them properly

Injuryprone

I tried out dosing the cows in the parlour in January, mixing it with 2kgs of coarse ration. You'd want to have them fairly hungry for them to clean out the troughs properly. Out of 60 animals, 3 didn't touch it so they were done the 'normal' way in the crush on the way out. I can walk down behind the troughs in the parlour which makes it handier to do the job, I suppose.
Got the result from the first herd health screening of the bulk milk back a few weeks back and it showed an almost total kill of fluke. Same test showed I had a problem last year. So I'm happy enough.
From what I gather from listening to Doreen Corridan at a Munster Herd Health meeting, a lot of people are trying out this method with good results. It was the sales rep from CAHL that suggested it to me.
For me it wasn't a question of being lazy, it was the huge stress reduction over dosing heavily incalf cows that was the main reason for doing it that way. Anyway, every man to himself, I suppose. 95% accuracy will do me.

Muckit

whelan1 wrote: »

wtf:eek: have never in all my life heard of such a lazy atitude, what if they dont eat it... waste of time and money... put them down the crush , catch them and dose them, then at least you know they have it.... if i can do it anyone can

You'I love this one whelan1..............

I know a dairy lad that throws the dry milk replacer powder in a trough and lets the calves lick it up!!! He has a separate big water trough in the pen. 'sure can't they mix it up themselves' he told me:rolleyes: Reckons it's the right job. He has made enquiries into seeing if he can get the replacer pelleted

Manoffeeling

I had a calf once that would not drink milk so had to mix the powder in the meal with sugar. He turned out ok.

eddiek

going back to the hook dosing gun here.am i right in thinking, put the cattle tight in the crush and walk down beside them and administer dose, with a bit of humouring on them of course! i dont have to put each ones head in the gate individually?

bob charles

bbam wrote: »

Sounds like a coarse inaccurate method to me.
These medicens have specific dose rates for successful results and by lashing a go of it onto meal and hoping for the best you have no control at all.

Some will be put off by the dose and some will gorge themselves and get way over the dosage. I know I sound like LC but you need to administer the correct dose for the animal. Anything else is potentially dangerous, ineffective and money waisted. And as Whelan1 said, it's just plain lazy. If your going to have stock look after them properly!

didn't see this thread back a few months ago but its pretty much the norm for doing our second dose in the feed. if it wasn't done in the feed it wouldn't be done at all. I know exactly how much TMR the bunches of animals are eating, mostly around 2.5% DM of bodyweight give or take differences between males/females. All animals will eat a proportion to their body weight unless they are off there diet which you should have noticed in the first place. When say 50ml of product are mixed with 40kgs of feed (daily feed intake), animals will not notice the product and I have never seen a drop in intakes when the dose has being administrated. Main reasons for treating in this manner is down to animal welfare issues. Is it effective, well when the animals are slaughtered and showing no signs of a worm burden thats good enough for me. I would only be treating for worms in the feed though and wouldn't use a rumen fluke product in this way. the rumen fluke product is administrated on point of entry through the crush.

Anyone remember what was said when some of us started administrating some vaccines intra-nasally

Just to add, i fed the animals 5 grams per animal of one product and 10 grams per animal of another product through the TMR each day, is this also wasted money - i think not as I see the results each day

PMU

Muckit wrote: »

You'I love this one whelan1..............

I know a dairy lad that throws the dry milk replacer powder in a trough and lets the calves lick it up!!! He has a separate big water trough in the pen. 'sure can't they mix it up themselves' he told me:rolleyes: Reckons it's the right job. He has made enquiries into seeing if he can get the replacer pelleted

i am doing this for some small calves( 75 KG), 1 kg powder and 5 kgs coarse ration for 6 calves. they are eating it fine on grass

49801

eddiek wrote: »

going back to the hook dosing gun here.am i right in thinking, put the cattle tight in the crush and walk down beside them and administer dose, with a bit of humouring on them of course! i dont have to put each ones head in the gate individually?

spot on.
start at the back of the line though... they'll find it harder to see you coming;)
usually give albex to the cows with a hook for the winter but its a bit thick to be pumping with a dosing gun. try and use a light product if you can

bigdaddy1896

another good way to see if cattle have fluke is if your slaughtering cattle ask for analysis of liver, more accurate than dung samples.

keep going

time is coming for dosing the cows at drying off so what are ye going to do.thinking of going with zanil,injectable invertamin and a"spot on"product for lice and then following it up with albex in 8 weeks

whelan1

we do with endospec 10% at drying and zanil at calving... pour on for lice about 4 or 5 weeks after housing, also get rotavec corona at drying. There is a fasinex dose out soon , withdrawal is 60 days for milk