Dosing

whelan1

thought i would start a thread on dosing:) i dose all cows at drying off with either albex or endospec ... 1 cow in particular is quite thin and i dried her about a month ago, give her meal each day , gave her endospec, did her this morning with zanil, she has a swelling under her jaw, should i do her again with endospec as zanil only does mature fluke?

bob charles

Are you not routinely doing the milkers for rumen fluke, seen major problems, even a problem where farmer dosed cows for rumen fluke on the 1st of Nov and are 6 weeks cows were still showing a burden before second dose. I just told the individual to shorten the gap between treatments to avoid future problems

reilig

This thread is now under the "Important Threads and useful Information" Sticky. Please keep posts on topic and don't go off on tangents - this will help to make this thread a useful resource for all

6480

bob charles wrote: »

Are you not routinely doing the milkers for rumen fluke, seen major problems, even a problem where farmer dosed cows for rumen fluke on the 1st of Nov and are 6 weeks cows were still showing a burden before second dose. I just told the individual to shorten the gap between treatments to avoid future problems

i am not sayig u are wrong or anything but our vet says not to come back with another dose til about 9 or 10 weeks as to give the animal a chance to fight it herself , i asked another vet and he had the same answer .

blue5000

Is it a suckler or dairy cow? Is the ban on certain fluke doses still in place for dairy cows?

6480

blue5000 wrote: »

Is it a suckler or dairy cow? Is the ban on certain fluke doses still in place for dairy cows?

yes ur spot on hopefully this year there will be a few more new products launched on the market that dairy farmers can use

whelan1

its a dairy cow , but the rate shes going she wont be milking next lactation:cool: just interested in people advice...

Farm Master

I have a question oral dosing. I am thinking of getting a dosing hook. Do any of you use them and do they make life easier.

mattthetrasher

whelan did ya take any dung samples, we have been taking samples pre dosing now for about 2 years. at least you know if theres a need and what exactly that is.rumen fluke at high levels may also explain a high scc

6480

Farm Master wrote: »

I have a question oral dosing. I am thinking of getting a dosing hook. Do any of you use them and do they make life easier.

i bought one there and its the best yoke i ever bought, its a joy to use saves man and beast and time

dar31

Farm Master wrote: »

I have a question oral dosing. I am thinking of getting a dosing hook. Do any of you use them and do they make life easier.

the hook end for a dose gun is bloody brilliant.
philips dose gun 30ml with hook is what we use all the time, make sure the gun is one of the cast ones as the plastic ones dont take any abuse
and if you get one of the really awkward cows that keeps putting her head down inside the front cow, use the hook end under her jaw to pull her head up and catch by hand to do.

zanil at drying off and again the day they calve. will be taken down for 3 days min for antibiotics anhow

Injuryprone

dar31 wrote: »

zanil at drying off and again the day they calve. will be taken down for 3 days min for antibiotics anhow

I was advised at my herd health meeting not to dose with Zanil at calving, as it'll be an additional strain on the cow at a time when she's already under alot of pressure and it has been known to cause scouring iirc.

Was told to wait til they're inside permanently 8 weeks and then dose them. And try to be at least a week before calving.

Am planning to put them through the parlour in 10 days time, throw a kilo or 2 of ration into the troughs and pour the zanil in on top of the ration. Hopefully that shouldn't stress them too much,

Dunedin

whelan1 wrote: »

, she has a swelling under her jaw, ?

Swelling under the jaw is often Timber tongue. Is she frothing a bit or a bit empty looking.

TT - if it is that, is easily enough treatable

whelan1

Injuryprone wrote: »

Am planning to put them through the parlour in 10 days time, throw a kilo or 2 of ration into the troughs and pour the zanil in on top of the ration. Hopefully that shouldn't stress them too much,

wtf:eek: have never in all my life heard of such a lazy atitude, what if they dont eat it... waste of time and money... put them down the crush , catch them and dose them, then at least you know they have it.... if i can do it anyone can

Tipp Man

Dunedin wrote: »

Swelling under the jaw is often Timber tongue. Is she frothing a bit or a bit empty looking.

TT - if it is that, is easily enough treatable

Yeah have often had it in cattle, never on a cow though.

whelan1

is a swelling under the jaw also a sign of a heart problem ?

6480

whelan1 wrote: »

is a swelling under the jaw also a sign of a heart problem ?

it might be causing her not to eat as much as she should , had a mature cow with a similar problem few years ago but got her into the cull cow ring in time

badshot

whelan1 wrote: »

thought i would start a thread on dosing:) i dose all cows at drying off with either albex or endospec ... 1 cow in particular is quite thin and i dried her about a month ago, give her meal each day , gave her endospec, did her this morning with zanil, she has a swelling under her jaw, should i do her again with endospec as zanil only does mature fluke?

might just be an abcess
get your vet to look at it
if it is all it needs is to be lanced
and kept washed out for afew days

Injuryprone

whelan1 wrote: »

wtf:eek: have never in all my life heard of such a lazy atitude, what if they dont eat it... waste of time and money... put them down the crush , catch them and dose them, then at least you know they have it.... if i can do it anyone can

It's not a question of being lazy, (I dosed them "your" way back in december) I'm just trying to reduce stress on heavily in-calf cows that putting them through the crush might cause. If any of them don't eat it, then I'll just draft her to the crush. Cahl rep recommended the method, says a lot of people are doing it this way at this time of the year.

whelan1

so what happens if one cow doesnt eat it... the cow coming behind will eat it and get too much...what type of parlour do you have?

pakalasa

Quick question - Will zanil cover Liver Fluke also?

I have 2 cows very scoury at the moment. I did them with Zanil about 6 week ago. It ain't BVD(tested last year) or Copper (injected).
can't figure out what it could be? They're both home bred aswell.

redzerologhlen

pakalasa wrote: »

Quick question - Will zanil cover Liver Fluke also?

I have 2 cows very scoury at the moment. I did them with Zanil about 6 week ago. It ain't BVD(tested last year) or Copper (injected).
can't figure out what it could be? They're both home bred aswell.

I think it covers mature liver fluke only pak. Was talking to a rep in the co-op a few weeks back and he reckoned you should be careful not to overuse zanil because it's the only product on the Market for rumen fluke and they had seen a resistance start to build up in some herds where it was used alot.

Manoffeeling

Does anyone here pour the dosing over meal in troughs and then let in the cows? i saw a few guys at it and it works. better than hardship

1chippy

A lad told me last week to give a cow some baking soda around five minutes before orally dosing. supposed to rise different probs for dose to clear out. anyone heard of it.

LostCovey

bob charles wrote: »

Are you not routinely doing the milkers for rumen fluke, seen major problems, even a problem where farmer dosed cows for rumen fluke on the 1st of Nov and are 6 weeks cows were still showing a burden before second dose. I just told the individual to shorten the gap between treatments to avoid future problems

What basis is there to routinely dose for rumen fluke~? Isn't it somehting that just causes problems in an odd place in a bad year?

What do you mean by burdens - eggs in the dung?

Loads of cattle will have that, from small harmless numbers of rumen flukes.

This sounds mad to me, but maybe there is some reasoning behind it - open to hearing it.

LC

bbam

Manoffeeling wrote: »

Does anyone here pour the dosing over meal in troughs and then let in the cows? i saw a few guys at it and it works. better than hardship

Sounds like a coarse inaccurate method to me.
These medicens have specific dose rates for successful results and by lashing a go of it onto meal and hoping for the best you have no control at all.

Some will be put off by the dose and some will gorge themselves and get way over the dosage. I know I sound like LC but you need to administer the correct dose for the animal. Anything else is potentially dangerous, ineffective and money waisted. And as Whelan1 said, it's just plain lazy. If your going to have stock look after them properly!

whelan1

bbam wrote: »

Sounds like a coarse inaccurate method to me.
These medicens have specific dose rates for successful results and by lashing a go of it onto meal and hoping for the best you have no control at all.

Some will be put off by the dose and some will gorge themselves and get way over the dosage. I know I sound like LC but you need to administer the correct dose for the animal. Anything else is potentially dangerous, ineffective and money waisted. And as Whelan1 said, it's just plain lazy. If your going to have stock look after them properly!

if i can catch and dose stock then anyone can :cool:

Farmer Pudsey

Also with Oral dose's cattle should have an empty stomach for the dose to be totally effective against worm's and as well do not allow them access to food or water for 2 hour's ideally. Another issue is that with putting the dose on the ration is if cattle do not get the proper amount then we can have worm immunity in the long term this is a huge issue with sheep.

Tora Bora

Been some commentary in the farming rags, recently about the growing prevalence of resistance to common cattle drugs:(
Now there is a change in thinking to dosing / injecting ONLY AFTER a give issue shows itself, as opposed to routine preventative treatments.

What do ye think?

Of course, the routine preventative treatments have been a cash cow for the pharma companies. Maybe we farmers followed the pharma line too faithfully. Lining their pockets, and tearing the arse out of our own

pakalasa

You know, I think mine may have worms. They're both young cows that I bred myself. Overdosing is just as bad as undedosing. Their natural immunity doesn't seem to develop as good, if they are overdosed.

6480

pakalasa wrote: »

You know, I think mine may have worms. They're both young cows that I bred myself. Overdosing is just as bad as undedosing. Their natural immunity doesn't seem to develop as good, if they are overdosed.

get a hook dosing gun its nearly fun dosing cattle then