Real or phantom bidder? Advice needed!

MsG · 15-10-2012 06:41PM #1

Hi there,
I've been reading with interest some of the first time buyer advice on this forum. Myself and the OH have just started the process of looking for a house. We have AIP from AIB and are eager to find somewhere now.

I have seen a house online that we're very interested in. It's on for 310,000. I rang the estate agent today to arrange a viewing and was told that there is an offer of 295,000 on it. Now the house has only been on the market for 10 days.

Do you think that it's just a really eager bidder or is the EA having me on?
I'd appreciate your opinion on this one!
Thanks

Idbatterim · 15-10-2012 06:46PM

unless it is priced to sell, that offer seems very close to asking, a lot closer tham you might expect in such a short time frame! unless, the house is priced to sell quickly, instead of chasing the market down. What are the directly comparable houses in the area going for? assuming there are any! if you post up a link Id be able to give you much better advice...

djimi · 15-10-2012 06:52PM

There was someone on here recently who said that they offered the asking price for a house as their first offer, so its not entirely beyond the realm of possibility that its a real bid!

It does sound to me suspicously like the seller is trying to set a level below the asking price below which they do not want to hear offers.

Idbatterim · 15-10-2012 06:54PM

It does sound to me suspicously like the seller is trying to set a level below the asking price below which they do not want to hear offers.

Exactly it is Impossible to know if the claim is true or not. I would more than likely says its BS, but you cant be sure.

MsG · 15-10-2012 08:17PM

Thanks for the super quick replies guys. It seems priced in and around what others in the area have been selling for...perhaps slightly higher even.
Here's the link,
http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/18-willow-park-avenue-glasnevin-dublin-11/2172925

Thanks again!

Idbatterim · 15-10-2012 08:35PM

how long have you been looking Op and what are you circumstances? i.e currently renting etc?

thehamo · 15-10-2012 08:38PM

MsG wrote: »

Thanks for the super quick replies guys. It seems priced in and around what others in the area have been selling for...perhaps slightly higher even.
Here's the link,
http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/18-willow-park-avenue-glasnevin-dublin-11/2172925

Thanks again!

I know houses around that area have sold for 285/290. One house on the road of similar spec was on the market for 275 and went for 285 so demand is high in the area. Could well have been an eager bidder. A house I went sale agreed on recently went straight in at the asking price and we had to bid over. People are being a bit silly at the mo because of the interest relief ending

Idbatterim · 15-10-2012 08:47PM

op you could go and view it, I can guarantee that if they are saying there is an offer on it, whether its true or not, they will want to play you off the other party or parties! go see a few houses, decide if its the one for you or not, and what its worth to you. No harm in going and saying 275 or so k is the max you could go... Tell them to let you know if sale falls through. do you know the circumstances of the seller? this can have big bearing on final sale price.

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/54-glasnevin-park-glasnevin-dublin-11/2100473

MsG · 15-10-2012 10:10PM

We have only been looking seriously for about 2 months but I would have been keeping an eye on houses around the area for a while now. Only just have
AIP. We've been to view the one on Glasnevin park and also Glasnevin ave...the both needed a good bit of work and are both north facing so not ideal.
We'll go and view this one in a few days anyway and try to get some more info out of the estate agent.

Idbatterim · 15-10-2012 10:18PM

Op, you can track price changes at the below link. Maybe also take look at

http://www.myhome.ie/pricechanges?LocalityIDs=1303

http://www.propertypriceregister.ie/

id play everything very cool with the estate agent, even if you love a particular property, they will try to exploit emotions etc...

riclad · 15-10-2012 11:32PM

AS the houses have sold at that price ,i think you have to assume its a real bid ,
People may be in a hurry to bid, as the mortgage tax credit scheme will be ending soon.
i know certain ,streets , there might be only 1 house for sale in a year,so if one comes up ,people will bid on it quickly.
if you want to get tax credits on interest, you,ll have to buy something in the near future.

Idbatterim · 16-10-2012 12:43AM

AS the houses have sold at that price ,i think you have to assume its a real bid ,
People may be in a hurry to bid, as the mortgage tax credit scheme will be ending soon.
i know certain ,streets , there might be only 1 house for sale in a year,so if one comes up ,people will bid on it quickly.
if you want to get tax credits on interest, you,ll have to buy something in the near future.

ok so lets assume this is true and some people are pushing up prices to avail of the interest relief! what do you reckon the result will be come january? lots of competition now v less in new year...

Ritchi · 16-10-2012 09:44AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

ok so lets assume this is true and some people are pushing up prices to avail of the interest relief! what do you reckon the result will be come january? lots of competition now v less in new year...

House prices look to have gone up in the past few months(in certain areas), I think it's due to the mortgage interest relief, most people don't actually seem to realise how little it is worth to them.

I suspect house prices to go back down again from January on, due to probably income tax increases, property tax increases, interest rate increases(AIB has gone up twice recently, BOI once) and it looks like no new incentives from the government. All of these, along with the existing problems of lack of bank lending, emmigration, lack of trust in the market, will lead to less competition and a highly likely drop in prices.

Zamboni · 16-10-2012 09:48AM

MsG wrote: »

Thanks for the super quick replies guys. It seems priced in and around what others in the area have been selling for...perhaps slightly higher even.
Here's the link,
http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/18-willow-park-avenue-glasnevin-dublin-11/2172925

Thanks again!

Lovely area.
I think it is overpriced though. Hold out.
Plenty of people in that area dying.

riclad · 16-10-2012 10:00AM

in certain area,s theres a small amount of propertys that come up for sale.Prices may go down a bit ,when tax credits for mortgages are no longer avaidable.

bazwaldo · 16-10-2012 10:35AM

I'd say its BS. If its only on the market 10 days its unlikely that a bid has come in that quick.

From the couple of experiences I have had this year on bidding I have learnt that the EAs cannot be trusted in the slightest. Avoid showing any emotion and tell them as little as possible when dealing with them.

For a house like this there will be interest as its a decent family home. It will sell for sure. You need to work out how much you are happy to pay for it and never go above that. Start with a bid lower than this if possible and increase if needs be when they say no or you are outbid. State its your final bid if you feel the price is good so they don't come back looking for more and risk losing you.

You can also match an existing bid you are "ready to go" as you are a preferable buyer. Also if outbidding another, increment in the smallest denomation possible.

gurramok · 16-10-2012 11:42AM

Zamboni wrote: »

Lovely area.
I think it is overpriced though. Hold out.
Plenty of people in that area dying.

Dying? Strange comment; ) I see what you say though, there is an elderly demographic here.

Not sure about lovely area, its right next to a not lovely area. That should be reflected in the price.

Zamboni · 16-10-2012 11:51AM

gurramok wrote: »

Dying? Strange comment; ) I see what you say though, there is an elderly demographic here.

Not sure about lovely area, its right next to a not lovely area. That should be reflected in the price.

Where Ballymun?
If it was a house on the Road facing Poppintree park I would expect a discount or if it was in Pinewood backing onto the new housing.
But not the avenue.

gurramok · 16-10-2012 12:28PM

Zamboni wrote: »

Where Ballymun?
If it was a house on the Road facing Poppintree park I would expect a discount or if it was in Pinewood backing onto the new housing.
But not the avenue.

Its only 2 streets away! I'd prefer myself if in that situation to look south of Glasnevin\Ballymun ave rather than north of it.

gurramok · 16-10-2012 12:33PM

Surprised no-one has mentioned the Price Register yet, its a valuable tracking device!

14/01/2010 €405,000.00 98 Willow Park Avenue, Glasnevin, Dublin 11, Dublin
23/04/2010 €222,500.00 24 Willow Park Avenue, Glasnevin Dublin 11, Dublin
17/12/2010 €365,000.00 78 Willow Park Avenue, Glasnevin, Dublin
10/07/2012 €150,000.00 ** 47 Willow Park Avenue, Glasnevin, Dublin 11, Dublin
31/08/2012 €285,000.00 45 Willow Park Avenue, Glasnevin, Dublin 11, Dublin

No 2 houses are the same in theory but the house in question is not far from number 24.

MagicMarker · 16-10-2012 12:34PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

op you could go and view it, I can guarantee that if they are saying there is an offer on it, whether its true or not, they will want to play you off the other party or parties! go see a few houses, decide if its the one for you or not, and what its worth to you. No harm in going and saying 275 or so k is the max you could go... Tell them to let you know if sale falls through. do you know the circumstances of the seller? this can have big bearing on final sale price.

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/54-glasnevin-park-glasnevin-dublin-11/2100473

Jaysus, were those pictures taken in the 80s?!

Idbatterim · 16-10-2012 02:33PM

Jaysus, were those pictures taken in the 80s?!

agree, but whether its dated or dated dated, gutting jobs one way or another, makes no real difference! What strikes me as funny OP, is that normally a house that had just gone on the market, would not receive offers so close to the asking, its possible, but surprises me a little! Id get a friend or family member to ring up and see if they get same story...

Idbatterim · 16-10-2012 02:48PM

Ill say one thing though, I vaguely know the area, but live in Churchtown, house prices in Dundrum, Churchtown area are pretty similar and those areas have vastly better facilities and amenities in IMHO...

For a house like this there will be interest as its a decent family home. It will sell for sure. You need to work out how much you are happy to pay for it and never go above that. Start with a bid lower than this if possible and increase if needs be when they say no or you are outbid. State its your final bid if you feel the price is good so they don't come back looking for more and risk losing you.

You can also match an existing bid you are "ready to go" as you are a preferable buyer. Also if outbidding another, increment in the smallest denomation possible.

totally agree with the above...

EricPraline · 16-10-2012 03:52PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

Ill say one thing though, I vaguely know the area, but live in Churchtown, house prices in Dundrum, Churchtown area are pretty similar and those areas have vastly better facilities and amenities in IMHO...

I don't think the prices are that similar tbh. An equivalent house in a less desirable and less well-serviced part of Churchtown would currently be asking 100k more (example in Landscape Gardens). A better comparison might be the older estates in Sandyford or the fringes of Kilmacud, although you're still paying the "Southside tax" to some extent there too

OP there's no way you can really know whether the bid is real or not right now. Either you believe they are genuine and you increase the bid, or you call the agent's bluff and stick with a lower bid. The choice is up to you.

On another note, personally I'd look at the south or central end of Glasnevin, very different area in terms of atmosphere, amenities, schools and proximity to city centre, when compared to the former Ballymun Avenue area.

MsG · 16-10-2012 03:57PM

Thanks again,
Lots to think about there. Viewing towards the end of the week so I'll let you know how we get on. I know Glasnevin very well and while I would prefer to be closer to the 'real/original' Glasnvein, there's not much on offer that meets our specs around the area.

Gillian1 · 16-10-2012 04:38PM

Op, my situation is not exactly like yours but when we were looking for a house we wanted the area where I grew up and when a house we were interested in came on market it was initial over priced. Didn't view it or consider it as not only was it out of our price range it was also over priced for area. Fast forward 3mths house has 50k price drop so now we're interested. We tried to contact EA which was closed over Xmas but we managed to have a private viewing as the sellers are friends of a relation of mine. We decide we like house didn't get into prices with private viewing they were happy to stick with EA so rings ea in new yr explain I've already viewed and very interested ea tells me there's already interest in house and that he has another viewing lined up on Saturday morning and not to hang around if interested so I ask can we also view it on Saturday morning wanted a second look at it. Saturday morning comes around we get to house before ea he comes along we view then tells us other couple are due to view it straight after us so we leave drive up road and park and just as we expected ea gets in car and leaves 2mins later. Then we knew he was full of BS and ball was in our court.

Sorry for long post but imo u should get a family member to view it and see if they get the same story off the EA as personally I'd say he's lying!

Baky · 16-10-2012 09:00PM

I've heard one way to find out if other offers are bogus or not is to ask the EA for details of the offer in writing so that you can show your bank manager and solicitor. I have done that in the past (twice) and on both occasions was told that the offer had been withdrawn. (So presumably never existed - they are not willing to put phantom bids in writing.) May be worth a try so at least you're not going in with an offer above its value.

In the height of the madness, the EAs told you on the way in to the first viewing that they already had an offer in excess of the asking price and now that competition is hotting up again for family homes, they're up to their old tricks. That said - an offer at this level is entirely possible, even within 10 days because there is a shortage of housing in certain areas. I viewed a house in Blackrock 2 weeks ago that had gone on the market on Friday with first viewing on Saturday. I got a call from the EA on Tuesday saying if I was interested I'd need to get my bid in by lunchtime as they had secured the full asking price (€630,000 for a 3 bed semi on Frascati Park) and intended to go Sale Agreed by the end of the day. I scoffed at this on the phone, wondering aloud if she had time travelled back to 2003 - but the Sale Agreed sign was up by the following Friday - one week after going on the market :eek:

Baky · 16-10-2012 09:04PM

Not Frascati Park actually - Convent Road.

deandean · 16-10-2012 09:07PM

OP ya just don't know. There are lot of buyers chasing 'family homes' at the moment.

Mate of mine last year was interested in a house (these figures are approx) and bid 340K, the EA came right back & told him there was an offer of 355K, my mate smelled a rat and pulled out. He looked up the price index last week, the house sold for 340K to a.n.other!

You just can't trust an EA.

Idbatterim · 16-10-2012 10:50PM

That said - an offer at this level is entirely possible, even within 10 days because there is a shortage of housing in certain areas. I viewed a house in Blackrock 2 weeks ago that had gone on the market on Friday with first viewing on Saturday. I got a call from the EA on Tuesday saying if I was interested I'd need to get my bid in by lunchtime as they had secured the full asking price (€630,000 for a 3 bed semi on Frascati Park) and intended to go Sale Agreed by the end of the day. I scoffed at this on the phone, wondering aloud if she had time travelled back to 2003 - but the Sale Agreed sign was up by the following Friday - one week after going on the market

if this is the case, youd wonder why sell so quick, unless the person offering the full asking, put gun to EA / Sellers head (I.e wanted same or next day response or they were pulling out), or were sellers desperate, just right buyer at right time for seller? uninformed buyer? who knows...

flintash · 16-10-2012 11:49PM

Baky wrote: »

I've heard one way to find out if other offers are bogus or not is to ask the EA for details of the offer in writing so that you can show your bank manager and solicitor. I have done that in the past (twice) and on both occasions was told that the offer had been withdrawn. (So presumably never existed - they are not willing to put phantom bids in writing.) May be worth a try so at least you're not going in with an offer above its value.

On what basis your bank manager would want to know other's offer? Just dont want to look silly when I ask for this, as I'm a horrible liar. Surely EA will go "What?"

Real or phantom bidder? Advice needed!

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