The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 2)

systemsready · 13-10-2012 10:59AM

Sin City wrote: »

Not actually answering the question there systemsready?

What confuses you about there not being a God?

How do you say its repulsive and absurd and not give reasons why?

Sin City..thats impossible to say in a few lines.
There are thousands of reasons why atheism is repulsive. To name one..and I dont want to open a new can of worms here...in atheism...there is no Hope.
Hope according to Wikipedia means:
"Hope is the emotional state which promotes the belief in a positive outcome related to events and circumstances in one's life. Despair is the opposite of hope"

In atheism..death is the end of existence..total annihilation, nihilism. That means you are living in the emotional state that things will get worse eventually..unless you feel that non existence is better than existence.
So we cannot apply Hope in its literal sense to an atheist's existence.
The old adage "Hope springs eternal" is the true meaning of Hope.

Thats just one notion about atheism that repulses me.

philologos · 13-10-2012 11:02AM

Sin City wrote: »

Faith, does not prove anything.

I have faith that Ireland are going to beat Germany tonight
Doesnt mean Im right. (Though hopefully I am)

As for maths, that just it, you can prove something with a degree of certainty, you cant do that in religion

Faith doesn't prove anything, because it is the result trusting the evidence. In terms of Christianity - the eyewitness testimony that we have from the first century in terms of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus, and prior revelation.

These claims can also be analysed. The more and more we see in the world that gives credence to the Gospels, the less and less reason I have for rejecting it.

systemsready · 13-10-2012 11:03AM

Sin City wrote: »

What has God done that proves that he exists?
You seem sure so go on give us all the evidence for the existence of God

He brought you into existence, how else could you have been brought into existence?
By primordial soup? (Cambell's or Heinz?)

Sin City · 13-10-2012 11:03AM

systemsready wrote: »

FFS! Sin City..thats impossible to say in a few lines.
There are thousands of reasons why atheism is repulsive. To name one..and I dont want to open a new can of worms here...in atheism...there is no Hope.
Hope according to Wikipedia means:
"Hope is the emotional state which promotes the belief in a positive outcome related to events and circumstances in one's life. Despair is the opposite of hope"

In atheism..death is the end of existence..total annihilation, nihilism. That means you are living in the emotional state that things will get worse eventually..unless you feel that non existence is better than existence.
So we cannot apply Hope in its literal sense to an atheist's existence.
The old adage "Hope springs eternal" is the true meaning of Hope.

Thats just one notion about atheism that repulses me.

So your afraid of atheism. You are afraid of no longer existing and you cling onto religion to kid yourself that there is something beyond just to make yourself feel better.

Its the idea of having to face reality that repulses you

Sin City · 13-10-2012 11:05AM

systemsready wrote: »

He brought you into existence, how else could you have been brought into existence?
By primordial soup? (Cambell's or Heinz?)

My mam and dad brought me into existence

Lelantos · 13-10-2012 11:07AM

systemsready wrote: »

Lelantos wrote: »

There is no fundamental truth that a god is there. It is your opinion & that is all it is.

That means you just have not thought it through fully enough. You may think you have, but how did you know when to stop analysing? It could have been you stopped thinking it through right before you were about to achieve a revelation.
But if you say you haven't yet fully thought it through then you cannot say God is a myth. You can say "don't know yet but I'm working on it."

You mean will I sit down & dedicate my life to proving the bible incorrect? No obviously not, but I have reasoned enough thru my life to prove to myself that certain tenants that people hold true, are in fact completely without basis & merit. If people wish to live by a set of rules from the bible, written by man, then yes, no issues. But if people believe it to be the word of a god, and a command or a law for all to live their lives by, then no, sorry, that is incorrect.

Sin City · 13-10-2012 11:08AM

philologos wrote: »

Faith doesn't prove anything, because it is the result trusting the evidence. In terms of Christianity - the eyewitness testimony that we have from the first century in terms of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus, and prior revelation.

These claims can also be analysed. The more and more we see in the world that gives credence to the Gospels, the less and less reason I have for rejecting it.

Thats just it , eye witness testimony is highly inaccurate. Its actually the weakest of any evidence.

systemsready · 13-10-2012 11:08AM

Sin City wrote: »

So your afraid of atheism. You are afraid of no longer existing and you cling onto religion to kid yourself that there is something beyond just to make yourself feel better.

Its the idea of having to face reality that repulses you

Duh...that's the first time I heard that argument! Oh now what? I'm shaking in my boots at the idea of non existence. You caught me..lol

Another thing that repulses me...innocent kids being raised up believing that they developed from soup. That life is nihilism...that there indeed is only hopelessness.

Now you know why there is a heaven and hell. Its ok for yourself to live as a nihilist..thats fine ..thats your choice..you will maybe be able to find an excuse for doing that. But if you are a parent..and you have kids..and you grow these kids up with hopelessness, then you have contributed to the world..and that will be your legacy. I don't think that can be excusable.
Thats why many atheists indeed Hope that there is no Day of Judgement...because that sin is going to have to be paid for..in spades.

systemsready · 13-10-2012 11:14AM

Lelantos wrote: »

You mean will I sit down & dedicate my life to proving the bible incorrect? No obviously not, but I have reasoned enough thru my life to prove to myself that certain tenants that people hold true, are in fact completely without basis & merit. If people wish to live by a set of rules from the bible, written by man, then yes, no issues. But if people believe it to be the word of a god, and a command or a law for all to live their lives by, then no, sorry, that is incorrect.

You are now mixing two debates up. First we were talking about the existence of God..then you jumped to the bible. Establish first the existence of God..then talk about the bible. If you doubt one you will doubt the other.
If you are unsure about God's existence then the bible will mean nothing to you. But if you first establish in your mind that God indeed exists, and you reject atheism completely...then you can discuss revelation properly.

Answers to questions come in dualisms...there are different answers depending on the fundamental belief ..either God exists or He doesent?
Then when you choose one..your perspective adheres to it.

Sin City · 13-10-2012 11:16AM

systemsready wrote: »

Duh...that's the first time I heard that argument! Oh now what? I'm shaking in my boots at the idea of non existence. You caught me..lol

Your words.

systemsready wrote: »

Another thing that repulses me...innocent kids being raised up believing that they developed from soup. That life is nihilism...that there indeed is only hopelessness.

Its better than we all inbred, and are condemed by the sins of Adam.

systemsready wrote: »

Now you know why there is a heaven and hell. Its ok for yourself to live as a nihilist..thats fine ..thats your choice..you will maybe be able to find an excuse for doing that. But if you are a parent..and you have kids..and you grow these kids up with hopelessness, then you have contributed to the world..and that will be your legacy. I don't think that can be excusable.
Thats why many atheists indeed Hope that there is no Day of Judgement...because that sin is going to have to be paid for..in spades.

Can tell me where heaven is and where hell is if they do exist?
If you want to live in a fairytale thats your call but do not judge me for rejecting said fairytale.

Why would my kids grow up with hopleessness?

I dont sit around and tell them they are going to die

I also dont tell them they are going to burn in hell if they dont follow some deities rules. Make them afriad of something that doesnt exist . I will teach them morals and how to behave because it is right and not because they will burn in hell if they dont

systemsready · 13-10-2012 11:17AM

Sin City wrote: »

My mam and dad brought me into existence

Did they? all by themselves? I wonder would they be able to do that again on demand? To bring into existence another one of You.
No they cant..and they could never ...even if they were 30 years old and in prime condition. So who decided on You? Not them...

Sin City · 13-10-2012 11:18AM

systemsready wrote: »

Did they? all by themselves? I wonder would they be able to do that again on demand? To bring into existence another one of You.
No they cant..and they could never ...even if they were 30 years old and in prime condition. So who decided on You? Not them...

God hasnt made another one of me either?

But me mam and dad did make some brothers and sisters for me

God couldnt do that either

systemsready · 13-10-2012 11:20AM

Sin City wrote: »

Your words.

Its better than we all inbred, and are condemed by the sins of Adam.

Can tell me where heaven is and where hell is if they do exist?
If you want to live in a fairytale thats your call but do not judge me for rejecting said fairytale.

Why would my kids grow up with hopleessness?

I dont sit around and tell them they are going to die

I also dont tell them they are going to burn in hell if they dont follow some deities rules. Make them afriad of something that doesnt exist . I will teach them morals and how to behave because it is right and not because they will burn in hell if they dont

Yu dont have to tell your kids they will die..everyone knows they will die eventually. And if they dont know it..they will know it one day...and knowing about deah begets questions? The main question is.."Whats all this about?"
"Why are we here?" "What for?"
And then they will remember dad's wisdom...."You are here because of an accident in a bowl of soup about 100 million years ago"

"Thanks dad!"

systemsready · 13-10-2012 11:25AM

Sin City wrote: »

God hasnt made another one of me either?

But me mam and dad did make some brothers and sisters for me

God couldnt do that either

You didnt read the question...I said another YOU....if they set out to create a child...did they say..lets make a blue eyed ,blond haired to become 6ft tall etc...no..it was all unexpected.

people don't know whats going to come out after they plant a seed.

systemsready · 13-10-2012 11:32AM

Basically, what it boils down to is that Belief is better than Disbelief.
Try the two lives, live as a believer and live as a disbeliever.
One is absolute negativity and the other is full of potential.
Thats proof enough for anyone who even has a single brain cell.

Sin City · 13-10-2012 11:47AM

systemsready wrote: »

Basically, what it boils down to is that Belief is better than Disbelief.
Try the two lives, live as a believer and live as a disbeliever.
One is absolute negativity and the other is full of potential.
Thats proof enough for anyone who even has a single brain cell.

Not quite. Again your saying you believe because you like the concept, doesnt mean its true though does it

systemsready · 13-10-2012 11:52AM

Sin City wrote: »

Not quite. Again your saying you believe because you like the concept, doesnt mean its true though does it

If a man is building a house on quick-sand and another is building on solid rock..which one of them is on the right path?

Please dont go into "it depends if the quick-sand site has a better view of the beach"

Sin City · 13-10-2012 11:55AM

systemsready wrote: »

If a man is building a house on quick-sand and another is building on solid rock..which one of them is on the right path?

Please dont go into "it depends if the quick-sand site has a better view of the beach"

Obviously like atheism , a man would build on a solid foundation of scientific facts and not fables that when you question them dissapear like quicksand.

Your comparison is very childish, much like most of your arguements

MadYaker · 13-10-2012 11:57AM

systemsready wrote: »

Basically, what it boils down to is that Belief is better than Disbelief.
Try the two lives, live as a believer and live as a disbeliever.
One is absolute negativity and the other is full of potential.
Thats proof enough for anyone who even has a single brain cell.

That's your opinion. I was raised by devout catholics and I suppose I was 13 or so when I started to question all the stories I was being told. I can't just choose to believe something because they told me to. I have to have reason to believe, there needs to be evidence. All the time I've spent in school and college studying physics and the biology and genetics of evolution have given me lots of answers, far more answers than I could ever get from my parents or priests or the bible.

It seems to me the main reason for your beliefs, apart from an obvious lack of scientific knowledge, is a fear of the unknown. At the end of the day religion was merely another attempt by mankind to find answers before proper science began to provide them. It all stems from fear.

You say the life of a disbeliever is total negativity which is just nonsense to be quite honest, in fact its the opposite, you constantly live in fear of sin and eternal damnation. I live a perfectly full and happy life, I can do whatever I want and all I have to worry about is the law and getting caught. The thought of sinning means nothing to me.

I know that when I die its game over, I'm going to go into the ground and my body will be eaten by bacteria, fungii and worms. And thats fine by me. I feel sorry for anyone who can't live a happy life without giving themselves false hope in the form of superstitions about spirit forms and the afterlife.

systemsready · 13-10-2012 11:59AM

Sin City wrote: »

Obviously like atheism , a man would build on a solid foundation of scientific facts and not fables that when you question them dissapear like quicksand.

Your comparison is very childish, much like most of your arguements

In that case "to you your way and to me mine".
It just remains to be seen the outcome of the paths. Those that choose belief will sow a seed and those that choose atheism will sow a seed...it will not be in our lifetime that we will see the seeds reach maturity...if ever they do.
But I have faith (confidence) in the teachings of the Prophets, and thats the way I'm going , you have faith in scientists..then off you go with them.

shizz · 13-10-2012 11:59AM

systemsready wrote: »

Basically, what it boils down to is that Belief is better than Disbelief.
Try the two lives, live as a believer and live as a disbeliever.
One is absolute negativity and the other is full of potential.
Thats proof enough for anyone who even has a single brain cell.

I'm guessing a life in disbelief is full of negativity and the other is of full potential? Yes?

I don't live my life in negativity. Not believing in a god really allows you to appreciate your place in the universe and, IMO of course, makes it all the more beautiful. Knowing that the evidence so far shows that you just die when you die allows you to really live your life while you're here.

And as for your full potential? What blindingly accepting everything on faith allows you to reach this? Give me a break.

Also, yes. You're right. It is proof enough for anyone who has a single brain cell. If you have any more you can see how it's utter tripe.

systemsready · 13-10-2012 12:04PM

MadYaker wrote: »

That's your opinion. I was raised by devout catholics and I suppose I was 13 or so when I started to question all the stories I was being told. I can't just choose to believe something because they told me to. I have to have reason to believe, there needs to be evidence. All the time I've spent in school and college studying physics and the biology and genetics of evolution have given me lots of answers, far more answers than I could ever get from my parents or priests or the bible.

It seems to me the main reason for your beliefs, apart from an obvious lack of scientific knowledge, is a fear of the unknown. At the end of the day religion was merely another attempt by mankind to find answers before proper science began to provide them. It all stems from fear.

You say the life of a disbeliever is total negativity which is just nonsense to be quite honest, in fact its the opposite, you constantly live in fear of sin and eternal damnation. I live a perfectly full and happy life, I can do whatever I want and all I have to worry about is the law and getting caught. The thought of sinning means nothing to me.

I know that when I die its game over, I'm going to go into the ground and my body will be eaten by bacteria, fungii and worms. And thats fine by me. I feel sorry for anyone who can't live a happy life without giving themselves false hope in the form of superstitions about spirit forms and the afterlife.

If you cease to exist at death and eventually all humanity ceases to exist and eventually the universe ceases to exist except as dust...then all of your existence is meaningless.
You have to think it through right to the end.
To accept that your existence is meaningless..is absurd.

BTW..yes we know about the worms..thats fine too..everyones gotta eat!

MadYaker · 13-10-2012 12:14PM

systemsready wrote: »

But I have faith (confidence) in the teachings of the Prophets, and thats the way I'm going , you have faith in scientists..then off you go with them.

Science is not a matter of faith..... Its not a question of believing or not believing. We have a funny thing called The Scientific Method. When someone proposes a theory they must outline how they reached this conclusion, they must state clearly their results and the method by which they attained these results. This method must be reproducible by anyone to achieve the same results. In short, 1) here's my theory, 2) here is my evidence, 3) here is how got this evidence, 4) go do it yourself and you will get the same results. In the case of religion it doesn't go beyond step 1.

On the point of our existence being meaningless, I think ultimately our existence is no more meaningful than that of an ant, an elephant, a fish or a bacterium. In terms of the life of our planet, the span of human existence will only be a tiny tiny miniscule fraction. There was other life for billions of years before us, and it will still be there long after we have destroyed ourselves.

systemsready · 13-10-2012 12:18PM

shizz wrote: »

I'm guessing a life in disbelief is full of negativity and the other is of full potential? Yes?

I don't live my life in negativity. Not believing in a god really allows you to appreciate your place in the universe and, IMO of course, makes it all the more beautiful. Knowing that the evidence so far shows that you just die when you die allows you to really live your life while you're here.

And as for your full potential? What blindingly accepting everything on faith allows you to reach this? Give me a break.

Also, yes. You're right. It is proof enough for anyone who has a single brain cell. If you have any more you can see how it's utter tripe.

Again..anyone who lives a full or 80 or 90 years life span without having answers to the three fundamental questions..and when I say answers ..I dont mean just 'fillers' is living in a negativ state
1 Who or what am I (atheists say, a biped animal like a chimpanzee)
2. What is the purpose of my existence (atheists differ,but most of them say to 'enjoy' life ,or have fun LOL)
3. What happens after I die..(atheists say .."thats it")

LMAO at thos answers....and you live 90 years in that mindset? No wonder drugs and alcohol are neccessary to maintain this perception.

systemsready · 13-10-2012 12:26PM

MadYaker wrote: »

Science is not a matter of faith..... Its not a question of believing or not believing. We have a funny thing called The Scientific Method. When someone proposes a theory they must outline how they reached this conclusion, they must state clearly their results and the method by which they attained these results. This method must be reproducible by anyone to achieve the same results. In short, 1) here's my theory, 2) here is my evidence, 3) here is how got this evidence, 4) go do it yourself and you will get the same results. In the case of religion it doesn't go beyond step 1.

On the point of our existence being meaningless, I think ultimately our existence is no more meaningful than that of an ant, an elephant, a fish or a bacterium. In terms of the life of our planet, the span of human existence will only be a tiny tiny miniscule fraction. There was other life for billions of years before us, and it will still be there long after we have destroyed ourselves.

Its funny how every atheists one meets is an amateur scientist in his spare time.
Alex Rosenberg...in his book "The atheist guide to reality"...says that Scientism is a better identity than Atheism
Does that mean all of you non-believers suddenly get upgraded to be called scientists.?
Atheism=Scientism...therefore Atheist=Scientist
It is actually hilarious the way atheists see themselves. Come down out of it before you hurt yourselves.

"Whats your faith" "I'm a scientist?" WoW

greenpilot · 13-10-2012 12:31PM

systemsready wrote: »

Sin City wrote: »

why would god make the world seem older than it is ?
what possible reason would he have to decieve us ?

God does not deceive us, we deceive ourselves. We see what we want to see,in order to shore up previously held prejudices.

Explain this deception then....
http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056778851?page=1#post_81210885

MadYaker · 13-10-2012 12:34PM

I don't work as a scientist but I have a degree and now I'm doing a masters... Does that make me an amateur? I work in a research lab but I don't get payed for it, in fact I'm paying good money to do it! And I think I made it clear that I don't adhere to any faith. I haven't read any of Alex Rosenbergs work.

You failed to address any of the points in my post.

13-10-2012 12:35PM

systemsready wrote: »

Its funny how every atheists one meets is an amateur scientist in his spare time.
Alex Rosenberg...in his book "The atheist guide to reality"...says that Scientism is a better identity than Atheism
Does that mean all of you non-believers suddenly get upgraded to be called scientists.?
Atheism=Scientism...therefore Atheist=Scientist
It is actually hilarious the way atheists see themselves. Come down out of it before you hurt yourselves.

"Whats your faith" "I'm a scientist?" WoW

The more you post the more you expose your ignorance.

Do you know what scientism is? Scientism does not equal science; all scientists are not adherents to scientism; atheism and science, let alone atheism and scientism, are not synonymous or equivalent. Scientism is a philosophical position on the supremacy of empiricism; its adherents believe the scientific method is universally applicable, and is the only source of knowledge, with the exclusion of all other methods for attaining knowledge. It's often a pejorative term, too.

smcgiff · 13-10-2012 12:40PM

systemsready wrote: »

Its funny how every atheists one meets is an amateur scientist in his spare time.
Alex Rosenberg...in his book "The atheist guide to reality"...says that Scientism is a better identity than Atheism
Does that mean all of you non-believers suddenly get upgraded to be called scientists.?
Atheism=Scientism...therefore Atheist=Scientist
It is actually hilarious the way atheists see themselves. Come down out of it before you hurt yourselves.

"Whats your faith" "I'm a scientist?" WoW

You don't need to be a scientist or even particularly smart not to believe in god/s, just have common sense. The same common sense that allowed you to question the existence of the easter bunny, santa clause, selfless politician, celibate heterosexual priest or the stork bringing your brother.

shizz · 13-10-2012 12:48PM

systemsready wrote: »

Again..anyone who lives a full or 80 or 90 years life span without having answers to the three fundamental questions..and when I say answers ..I dont mean just 'fillers' is living in a negativ state
1 Who or what am I (atheists say, a biped animal like a chimpanzee)
2. What is the purpose of my existence (atheists differ,but most of them say to 'enjoy' life ,or have fun LOL)
3. What happens after I die..(atheists say .."thats it")

LMAO at thos answers....and you live 90 years in that mindset? No wonder drugs and alcohol are neccessary to maintain this perception.

But they are answers? Just ones you aren't willing to accept!

The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 2)

Comments