Just when i thought the catholic church couldn't get any worse

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

People seem to pick and choose what they like about the catholic church, they want the wedding, communion, christening etc. but many of those people wouldn't agree that homosexuals are all going to hell, that women shouldn't use birth control and a good deal would also be pro-choice as its called. But that stuff usually isn't thrown in your face at usual mass, but in all fairness everyone knows what the church stands for, just because you don't like hearing it because you only wanted the nice bits.

I agree it shouldn't have been done in front of children, thats a fuppin disgrace. But this is what the Catholic Church preaches, it's not like it's come as some big surprise to people. For instance say I decided to join a Neo Nazi organisation really liked some parts of it but whenever anyone said anything anti-Semitic I would get really pissed off. It is exactly the same thing, to me anyway.

Maybe the parents should take some responsibility as well, they chose to bring their child to mass, to christen them etc. knowing well what the Catholic Church preaches.

I don't blame you personally for perpetuating a popular opinion du Jour, but speaking as a Roman Catholic myself, the original ideals and beliefs of the Catholic Church have been twisted and corrupted beyond all recognition by centuries of abuse of power and authority within the hierarchy of the Catholic Church. The desperation of the Vatican to cling to power over people has turned them into nothing but merely a spectacle of ridicule and derision, and rightfully so, but by all means aim your criticism at the hierarchy, not at the Catholic Church itself, as for many Roman Catholics, the Vatican's outdated and ignorant preachings do not represent the views of their congregation.

Many modern day Roman Catholics no longer take their instruction from the Vatican and have no interest in being preached to from the pulpit, but they use their intelligence to be able to read Church doctrine and interpret it for themselves and extract their own meaning from it, which of course means they're going to pick and choose what suits them. Is this not the very foundation of a belief system? To always question your beliefs and interpret scripture as it relates to you, and may mean something completely different to the person beside you?

However the intrinsic belief remains the same- tolerance and understanding of those around you, and I can see why people deride the Catholic Church for what they see as intolerance and ignorance displayed by them. However, as I've previously mentioned, save your scorn for the hierarchy, and not the Roman Catholic Church as a whole in and of itself.


If you think I'm just talking out my àrse, then have a look at the atheism movement and see how now there is yet a new movement called "atheism+", which derides atheists for not holding the same opinions they do on matters stretching way beyond just a lack of belief in a deity. Now they want to incorporate other social constructs in their mantra and if you don't go along with them, then you are derided as an ignorant and beneath their superior enlightened intellect. It's a good thing though that atheists too are intelligent enough that they can pick and choose what from the atheism movement and rightly ridicule this nonsensical extension of what it is to be an atheist, the very same as the Roman Catholic hierarchy should be held up for ridicule and derision for their corruption of the original doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church.

fishy fishy wrote: »

they actually did - I was there and I heard it right from the horses mouth. Just one of their backtracks in recent years.

What horse would that be?

fishy fishy wrote: »

you really think so? I think the CC preaches at will and changes the rules whenever they want. I suppose you may not remember the torture they put mothers through when their babies died before getting "baptized" - where was it they were, LIMBO. How cruel. Only a few years ago they then decided that LIMBO was not real at all and to forget about it. idiots.

Limbo was never an official doctrine of the church. Theologians dreamt it up to explain what probably happens to babies who have not sinned but who die before they're baptised (stillborn, miscarried or aborted)

This probably explains why the Catholic Church is so unfashionably "pro-life"

fishy fishy wrote: »

The fundamental importance, in Roman Catholic theology, of the sacrament of water baptism gives rise to the argument that, because original sin excludes from the beatific vision enjoyed by the souls in heaven, those who have not been freed from it either by the sacrament or by baptism of desire or baptism of blood are not eligible for entry into heaven.


you forgot this bit in your quote above.

What about people who aren't eligible but by the grace of God get in anyway? The Pope doesn't actually give out free tickets to heaven, and he doesn't have the final say. In fact, in Catholic teaching it is Jesus Christ himself who decides who's getting in to heaven.

I think the reason for your irrational hatred is because you are clearly mis-interpreting the teachings of the Church, or you are twisting it to suit your own agenda.

say_who_now? wrote: »

Many modern day Roman Catholics no longer take their instruction from the Vatican and have no interest in being preached to from the pulpit, but they use their intelligence to be able to read Church doctrine and interpret it for themselves and extract their own meaning from it, which of course means they're going to pick and choose what suits them.

See this, this doesn't really make any sense at all. I think they should draft up a list of problems they have with Vatican instruction and nail it to the door of their nearest cathedral.

fishy fishy wrote: »

would differ on everything you stated above.
the catholic church is a business - a business that preys on the vulnerable in the most tortuous way (sp), by exploiting their emotional wellbeing in order to gain "followers". absolutely nothing to do with living "right" or living "wrong". Their teachings have been consistent alright - consistently anti-women, and cruel. Thank goodness people have woken up to them and now they HAVE to come in line with modern times to keep the money rolling in. While their are "teaching" and "preaching" to the "flock" they seem to think they can do whatever they want themselves, again preying on the vulnerable and making sure about the "secrecy". Vultures.

I appreciate that this is your opinion, but that's all it is. You believe that it's a business with less than positive effects and goals.
Many many people believe very differently and many could care less.

The incident in question was an awful mistake. This poor woman has obvious issues which are unresolved and I'd expect is being used by those who wish to oppose abortion. It also sounds like this priest is guilty of not being sure what would be said before letting her speak in public. Some of the things said were dreadful and very hurtful but would not reflect the teachings and beleifs of the RC Church as a whole.

fishy fishy wrote: »

some of the posters on here seem quite young and have no idea what was preached in the churches of Ireland before they were born. Wikipedia seems to be the new "bible", but in reality, as in, when people were here before wikipedia, the reality was quite different. Ask your mammys and daddys about limbo - see what they have to say, if it was preached or not. And the church and state in Ireland was intermingled long after the time of dev etc. Life didn't start with the celtic tiger.

catholic church will be long gone in the next 100 years and people then will be scratching their heads at the stupidity of people believing the lies.

Would the Catholic News Service be a good enough source for you?

"Many Catholics grew up thinking limbo -- the place where babies who have died without baptism spend eternity in a state of "natural happiness" but not in the presence of God -- was part of Catholic tradition.

Instead, it was a hypothesis -- a theory held out as a possible way to balance the Christian belief in the necessity of baptism with belief in God's mercy.

Like hypotheses in any branch of science, a theological hypothesis can be proven wrong or be set aside when it is clear it does not help explain Catholic faith."

bluewolf wrote: »

say_who_now? wrote: »

Is this not the very foundation of a belief system? To always question your beliefs and interpret scripture as it relates to you, and may mean something completely different to the person beside you?

No, it's the foundation of being a protestant. It's the complete antithesis of catholic belief. That's why historically you weren't allowed to read the bible for yourself under catholicism.

If you want to interpret the bible yourself, if you don't like the RCC, then find a christian denomination that suits you.

Again though IMO, questioning one's beliefs is not the antithesis of what it is to be a Roman Catholic as I understand it from my own interpretation of what it is to be a Roman Catholic. Certainly I agree with you though bluewolf that what is needed is a reformation of the Catholic Church to shake off the trappings of wealth and corruption, ignorance and depravity, and desperation to cling to power and authority that has infiltrated the HIERARCHY of the Catholic Church, but I choose to interpret the teachings of the Catholic Church as it relates to me personally, and I have no wish to force my beliefs on others. I firmly believe that when there are enough people that think like I do, a second reformation WILL happen, but I personally would prefer if the few bad apples were kicked out of the barrel rather than the majority of good apples being forced out and the corrupt few that are left being allowed to further ruin the image of the Roman Catholic Church! Protestantism just isn't for me, and having said that, my religion isn't all I am as a person either. If that's what I wanted, I would convert to Islam and become a Muslim as my sister has done.