199 different nationalities now in Ireland

jfallon · 09-10-2012 09:30PM

A very interesting point was made earlier regarding when exactly do we draw the line with regards to Immigration, In the past 12yrs almost 500,000 immigrants have joined us here in Ireland placing a massive strain on our health, education and housing budgets. Immigration can greatly benefit an area if it's regulated properly, if it's not controlled it can be disastrous.. Akin to putting too many people into an already sinking boat.
So my question for the far left posters is this - How many immigrants is too many? Should we have a cap or should just have an open door policy? Should someone wishing to immigrate to Ireland meet any skills, education or other requirements?
There are approx 1.5 Billion people in this world who are living in what as defined as absolute poverty, The world bank defines this as people who live on less than $1 per day. A lot if not all of these people would sacrifice their first born to even have half of the opportunities and living standards that we enjoy in Ireland, I've been to a lot of 3rd world countries and witnessed this poverty first hand, I would love if we could help them all but the reality is we can't! We in Ireland do a lot for 3rd world poverty through charities and government aid but we must also look after our own people first and foremost!
@old hippy, you're username is quite apt!

Ghost Buster · 09-10-2012 09:51PM

jfallon wrote: »

A very interesting point was made earlier regarding when exactly do we draw the line with regards to Immigration, In the past 12yrs almost 500,000 immigrants have joined us here in Ireland placing a massive strain on our health, education and housing budgets. Immigration can greatly benefit an area if it's regulated properly, if it's not controlled it can be disastrous.. Akin to putting too many people into an already sinking boat.
So my question for the far left posters is this - How many immigrants is too many? Should we have a cap or should just have an open door policy? Should someone wishing to immigrate to Ireland meet any skills, education or other requirements?
There are approx 1.5 Billion people in this world who are living in what as defined as absolute poverty, The world bank defines this as people who live on less than $1 per day. A lot if not all of these people would sacrifice their first born to even have half of the opportunities and living standards that we enjoy in Ireland, I've been to a lot of 3rd world countries and witnessed this poverty first hand, I would love if we could help them all but the reality is we can't! We in Ireland do a lot for 3rd world poverty through charities and government aid but we must also look after our own people first and foremost!
@old hippy, you're username is quite apt!

I do see some sense in what you say and the Australian model is good. So long as you have resources, skills, a job to go to and a clean criminal record then come on in. I cant speak for old hippy but the posts i object to here are the xenophobic/ aryian /lets keep ireland irish crap. You just know that but for the charter these guys would be typing 'nigggar' and 'paki'

Crann na Beatha · 09-10-2012 09:57PM

This post has been deleted.

jfallon · 09-10-2012 10:00PM

Phoenix wrote: »

The sooner we adopt the Canadian approach to immigration the better!

Now that's what I'm talking aboot!:)

Peregrine · 09-10-2012 10:04PM

Phoenix wrote: »

The sooner we adopt the Canadian approach to immigration the better!

Define this "Canadian approach"

Sappa · 09-10-2012 10:16PM

old hippy wrote: »

Sappa wrote: »

Good luck with that,seriously the Japanese do not like foreigners integrating and would rather you did not speak any Japanese.
They are very much about there own culture and preserving it's identity.
You should know this being married to a Japanese lady or may e you haven't spent too much time there.
I worked in Japan and spoke with expats living there 20+ years who said they are still treated as just a foreigner and society will never take to you 100 % even if you speak perfect Japanese.
Look at the cases in Japan where American service men knock up a local lady that kid is shunned by Japanese people as being not one of them even though the mother is a native.
I would do some research on this first old hippy Japan is not as it seems.

Our friend's daughter is half Japanese and half Kenyan. She doesn't meet with that kind of predjudice. I've been to Japan many times and have studied the culture since I could read.

I'm not blind to the country's negative aspects, by any means. But pig headed ignorance is sadly rampant in every country. Just read the posts here to give you an idea.

It's well known that this prejudice exists,you could live in Japan for 50 years but your still a foreigner in their eyes and many practices and customs are hidden from non Japanese.
I have to say while there are many things I like about Japan it really is a complex society full of idiosyncratic mannerisms but also with old school prejudices prevalent in all aspects of life there.
This is not just solely common to Japan but South Korea to an extent is very similar in attitude to foreigner nationals.
I am glad to hear your half Japanese friend has not been subject to these such prejudices but I have witnessed it on several occasions with American mix raced acquaintences while I was in Japan.

Crann na Beatha · 09-10-2012 10:30PM

This post has been deleted.

Nodin · 09-10-2012 11:18PM

jfallon wrote: »

A very interesting point was made earlier regarding when exactly do we draw the line with regards to Immigration, In the past 12yrs almost 500,000 (......)we must also look after our own people first and foremost!
@old hippy, you're username is quite apt!

The vast and overwhelming majority of those are from the EU and are allowed free movement, so why you drag in the third world somewhat escapes me.

MadsL · 09-10-2012 11:38PM

old hippy wrote: »

Nodin, surely?

Shhh! That fact is only revealed to levels higher than Initiate.

jugger0 wrote: »

Is it racist to want to keep Ireland Irish? And indeed Europe European?

Bit late for that, unless you plan to expel anyone of Norman, Saxon, Welsh, Scottish or Spanish bloodline.
I'm also guessing you probably couldn't colour in "Europe" correctly on a blank map.

jugger0 wrote: »

81% of British Muslims consider themselves Muslims before British, thats pretty bad!

What do 2nd generation Irish living in the UK call themselves I wonder?

Clareboy wrote: »

So our hospitals are full of foreign doctors and nurses, while at the same time Irish doctors and nurses have to emigrate to find work. That makes a lot of sense! !

You probably wouldn't want to run Irish medical schools without foreign students fees.

Tchaikovsky · 09-10-2012 11:56PM

Phoenix wrote: »

A progressive,understanding approach of how immigration can produce long-term benefits and gains for the Canadian economy.

Canada is what, forty times bigger than Ireland? With a plethora of natural resources and with a very small percentage of native people (aka those who were there before the 1600s)

K-9 · 10-10-2012 12:03AM

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

Canada is what, forty times bigger than Ireland? With a plethora of natural resources and with a very small percentage of native people (aka those who were there before the 1600s)

Peregrine · 10-10-2012 12:32AM

Phoenix wrote: »

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

Define this "Canadian approach"

A progressive,understanding approach of how immigration can produce long-term benefits and gains for the Canadian economy.

Fact of the matter is, you cannot control immigration from EU states no matter how much you want to nor can you deport the redundant

Majority of immigrants from Asia were brought here on a work visa when there was a genuine need for them (i.e. They didn't just decide to pack their bags and move here). Long term benefits were considered but sure weren't we all surprised when the Irish economy slumped into this recession?

People saying "time to turn off the taps", they're closed. But EU is like a wider country, it allows free movement of it's people, nothing you can do about that.

The chances are, if we had a census in 2013 that 500,000 would be still around 500,000 no change and if it does increase(doubt it), it should be from EU countries

old hippy · 10-10-2012 08:02AM

Sappa wrote: »

It's well known that this prejudice exists,you could live in Japan for 50 years but your still a foreigner in their eyes and many practices and customs are hidden from non Japanese.
I have to say while there are many things I like about Japan it really is a complex society full of idiosyncratic mannerisms but also with old school prejudices prevalent in all aspects of life there.
This is not just solely common to Japan but South Korea to an extent is very similar in attitude to foreigner nationals.
I am glad to hear your half Japanese friend has not been subject to these such prejudices but I have witnessed it on several occasions with American mix raced acquaintences while I was in Japan.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist. My wife's grandmother was, by all accounts, not favourable towards Americans. I dread to think of what she would have made of my grandfather, who fought against the Japanese in Okinawa

I have experienced one or two incidents in East Asia (Japan, Korea, Taiwan) but not so much as to make me condemn the peoples of these countries. Elsewhere on boards, I'm pretty sure I mentioned they mayor of one Japanese city who has/had a habit of appealing to the lowest common denominator voters by stating that us foreigners brought in disease, crime and violence. Sounds depressingly familiar, eh?

In the meantime, let those who wish to try and denigrate someone's retirement dream continue to their hearts content. I know of plenty of people who wish to come to Ireland and retire; why would I spoil their dreams?

I will say though, I am slightly wary of posts calling for Ireland to be kept "white" and do wonder what kind of poster these threads attract. Overall, though, such posters epitomise the far right & why their vile ways will never catch on. Reading these posts confirms their all too evident achilles heel - misinformed, misanthropic and mutton headed.

It's all about education. I can't stress that enough.

Sappa · 10-10-2012 08:13AM

old hippy wrote: »

Sappa wrote: »

It's well known that this prejudice exists,you could live in Japan for 50 years but your still a foreigner in their eyes and many practices and customs are hidden from non Japanese.
I have to say while there are many things I like about Japan it really is a complex society full of idiosyncratic mannerisms but also with old school prejudices prevalent in all aspects of life there.
This is not just solely common to Japan but South Korea to an extent is very similar in attitude to foreigner nationals.
I am glad to hear your half Japanese friend has not been subject to these such prejudices but I have witnessed it on several occasions with American mix raced acquaintences while I was in Japan.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist. My wife's grandmother was, by all accounts, not favourable towards Americans. I dread to think of what she would have made of my grandfather, who fought against the Japanese in Okinawa

I have experienced one or two incidents in East Asia (Japan, Korea, Taiwan) but not so much as to make me condemn the peoples of these countries. Elsewhere on boards, I'm pretty sure I mentioned they mayor of one Japanese city who has/had a habit of appealing to the lowest common denominator voters by stating that us foreigners brought in disease, crime and violence. Sounds depressingly familiar, eh?

In the meantime, let those who wish to try and denigrate someone's retirement dream continue to their hearts content. I know of plenty of people who wish to come to Ireland and retire; why would I spoil their dreams?

I will say though, I am slightly wary of posts calling for Ireland to be kept "white" and do wonder what kind of poster these threads attract. Overall, though, such posters epitomise the far right & why their vile ways will never catch on. Reading these posts confirms their all too evident achilles heel - misinformed, misanthropic and mutton headed.

It's all about education. I can't stress that enough.

Not trying to knock your retirement plans at all just sending words of caution that it's no utopia over there.
Although I do see myself living in Asia again in a couple of years and if I am lucky enough to reach retirement then it is always an option to build our home there but appealing and all as it is I am well aware of the negatives.
My other half is Asian and I just ignore these nut jobs calling for a White society as she clearly is not White and they probably see me as mixing with there enemy but stuff them.
What info find as a general rule in Asia as opposed to Ireland/Europe is at present the amount of negativity here compared to there with attitudes and outlook,it's a breath of fresh air when we visit each year.

Herb Powell · 10-10-2012 09:11AM

jfallon wrote: »

A very interesting point was made earlier regarding when exactly do we draw the line with regards to Immigration, In the past 12yrs almost 500,000 immigrants have joined us here in Ireland placing a massive strain on our health, education and housing budgets. Immigration can greatly benefit an area if it's regulated properly, if it's not controlled it can be disastrous.. Akin to putting too many people into an already sinking boat.

It's a point, but not a very good point, because it assumes that none of the immigrants are employed or paying taxes. Which anyone with a bit of cop on would know is utter bolloccks

not yet · 10-10-2012 09:12PM

Herb Powell wrote: »

It's a point, but not a very good point, because it assumes that none of the immigrants are employed or paying taxes. Which anyone with a bit of cop on would know is utter bolloccks

It may be utter boollocks as you call it but we still have 100,000 non Irish nationals on the dole.I'm well aware they paid their tax's etc etc but how long should they receive this dole ? when their stamps run out do people feel they are still entitled to Job seekers allowance etc.

Can anybody please explain to me the reason so many non European nationals are here taking minimum wage jobs. I'm asking a serious question and don't need to lazy answer of didn't we go everywhere etc.

MadsL · 10-10-2012 09:23PM

not yet wrote: »

It may be utter boollocks as you call it but we still have 100,000 non Irish nationals on the dole.I'm well aware they paid their tax's etc etc but how long should they receive this dole ? when their stamps run out do people feel they are still entitled to Job seekers allowance etc.

Can anybody please explain to me the reason so many non European nationals are here taking minimum wage jobs. I'm asking a serious question and don't need to lazy answer of didn't we go everywhere etc.

100k non-Irish nationals with the right to live and work here. Just as millions of Irish have the right to up sticks and go work in Germany.

Are you proposing that numbers should be adjusted according to how well the economy is doing? Each time we take a dip, round up another 10,000 random non Europeans and kick them out? Their employers and spouses might have something to say about that.

not yet · 10-10-2012 09:30PM

MadsL wrote: »

100k non-Irish nationals with the right to live and work here. Just as millions of Irish have the right to up sticks and go work in Germany.

Are you proposing that numbers should be adjusted according to how well the economy is doing? Each time we take a dip, round up another 10,000 random non Europeans and kick them out? Their employers and spouses might have something to say about that.

No, but what I am saying is as a small country on the edge of Europe, going trough the worst recession in living memory we need to stop issuing pps numbers to 1000s of non Europeans each year.

I think It's incredible that 1000s of Pakistanis enter this country each year to work in jobs when They come here on student visas.

Pherekydes · 10-10-2012 09:54PM

not yet wrote: »

I think It's incredible that 1000s of Pakistanis enter this country each year to work in jobs when They come here on student visas.

According to the CSO, the number of Pakistanis living in Ireland increased from 2,939 in 2002 to 6,847 in 2011, a net increase of 3,908, which equates to less than a 500 per year increase. So where are these thousands each year you speak of?

not yet · 10-10-2012 10:01PM

Pherekydes wrote: »

According to the CSO, the number of Pakistanis living in Ireland increased from 2,939 in 2002 to 6,847 in 2011, a net increase of 3,908, which equates to less than a 500 per year increase. So where are these thousands each year you speak of?

A quick check shows me in 2011 795 were issued, even allowing that figure as a point of reference do you believe this is acceptable whilst 20-28 year old's cannot find work.

summerskin · 10-10-2012 10:05PM

not yet wrote: »

Pherekydes wrote: »

According to the CSO, the number of Pakistanis living in Ireland increased from 2,939 in 2002 to 6,847 in 2011, a net increase of 3,908, which equates to less than a 500 per year increase. So where are these thousands each year you speak of?

A quick check shows me in 2011 795 were issued, even allowing that figure as a point of reference do you believe this is acceptable whilst 20-28 year old's cannot find work.

Ok. So Australia, GB, USA shouldn't let the Irish enter for the same reasons, how's that sound?

MadsL · 10-10-2012 10:09PM

@Notyet The UK is back in serious recession. I propose closing the doors to the Irish. That will help, would you agree? Plus a systematic programme of deporting Irish on the dole in the UK. That OK too? And if times get really tough, if your name is O'Something - out ya go. Still alright with that?

not yet · 10-10-2012 10:13PM

summerskin wrote: »

Ok. So Australia, GB, USA shouldn't let the Irish enter for the same reasons, how's that sound?

The difference being these countries have massive labour markets and 10s of millions of people. We on the other hand are a small country with a reasonably small labour market. Let me ask you all a question, If the government said as of Jan 1st next year they were issuing 1 million new PPS numbers on a first come basis to all non nationals would that be acceptable.

not yet · 10-10-2012 10:26PM

Pherekydes wrote: »

According to the CSO, the number of Pakistanis living in Ireland increased from 2,939 in 2002 to 6,847 in 2011, a net increase of 3,908, which equates to less than a 500 per year increase. So where are these thousands each year you speak of?

After a quick check the amount of pps numbers issued to Pakistanis between 2002-2009 is 11,000 in the same period 28,000 were issued to Indian Nationals. That makes TOTAL of 39,000 from these two countries alone. I find that hard to understand. We can rabbit on about what if Oz and Canada,USA etc sent Irish nationals home, the difference is we have long standing relationships with these countries some of which we helped found.

Pherekydes · 10-10-2012 10:30PM

not yet wrote: »

After a quick check the amount of pps numbers issued to Pakistanis between 2002-2009 is 11,000 in the same period 28,000 were issued to Indian Nationals. That makes TOTAL of 39,000 from these two countries alone. I find that hard to understand. We can rabbit on about what if Oz and Canada,USA etc sent Irish nationals home, the difference is we have long standing relationships with these countries some of which we helped found.

The net migration is 3908 Pakistanis inwards. Do you think that everyone who's issued with a PPS number stays permanently? Maybe it'll improve your understanding of the numbers to realise that people come and go.

Anyway, about these millions...

El Weirdo · 10-10-2012 10:31PM

not yet wrote: »

After a quick check the amount of pps numbers issued to Pakistanis between 2002-2009 is 11,000 in the same period 28,000 were issued to Indian Nationals. That makes TOTAL of 39,000 from these two countries alone. I find that hard to understand. We can rabbit on about what if Oz and Canada,USA etc sent Irish nationals home, the difference is we have long standing relationships with these countries some of which we helped found.

Not to mention the fact that Pakistanis and Indians generally aren't white, eh?

not yet · 10-10-2012 10:31PM

MadsL wrote: »

@Notyet The UK is back in serious recession. I propose closing the doors to the Irish. That will help, would you agree? Plus a systematic programme of deporting Irish on the dole in the UK. That OK too? And if times get really tough, if your name is O'Something - out ya go. Still alright with that?

Who mentioned anything about a systematic deportation of anyone, It's foolish **** like that that makes a rational debate on this forum impossible. Why can't we just not re-issue work permits when they run out. And implement a Swedish- Ozzie style system where If the jobs are here we invite applications from non EE nationals to apply.

not yet · 10-10-2012 10:31PM

El Weirdo wrote: »

Not to mention the fact that Pakistanis and Indians generally aren't white, eh?

Classic

not yet · 10-10-2012 10:39PM

Pherekydes wrote: »

The net migration is 3908 Pakistanis inwards. Do you think that everyone who's issued with a PPS number stays permanently? Maybe it'll improve your understanding of the numbers to realise that people come and go.

Anyway, about these millions...

Wow, condescending as well, nice touch.

bodice ripper · 10-10-2012 10:41PM

Gurgle wrote: »

Who's missing? Is there a prize for completing the set?

did they count the Order of Malta? seemingly it's a sovereign state...

199 different nationalities now in Ireland

Comments