Why is Ireland still so expensive to live in?

davet82 · 10-10-2012 05:17PM #1

Ireland is the fifth most expensive country in the EU, with consumers paying 17 per cent more than the EU average, a new Central Statistics Office report has found.

Since we were ranked the second most expensive country to live in, in 2008, should prices not be coming down faster now the country is broke?

seamus · 10-10-2012 05:23PM

The state is broke, but most people aren't.

We have a stupidly high level of personal savings. The cost of living is still high because people are still well paid on average, so can still afford the higher prices of goods.

Pacing Mule · 10-10-2012 05:26PM

seamus wrote: »

The state is broke, but most people aren't.

We have a stupidly high level of personal savings. The cost of living is still high because people are still well paid on average, so can still afford the higher prices of goods.

The higher wage levels are a higher cost in everything produced and service provided in the country. If we were being paid the wage levels of the cheaper countries our prices wouldn't be as high. Bit of a vicious circle.

davet82 · 10-10-2012 05:27PM

seamus wrote: »

The state is broke, but most people aren't.

We have a stupidly high level of personal savings. The cost of living is still high because people are still well paid on average, so can still afford the higher prices of goods.

so wage cuts is the answer?

i'm sorry i asked now :pac:

super_furry · 10-10-2012 05:29PM

The main expense that most people have is rent/their mortgage. This is not going to decrease any time soon because of the stupidly high mortgages people took out in the past decade. Either they're stuck paying them or have to rent out their properties to people who will have to pay a stupidly high rent because of the mortgage and because the government's rent allowance system keeps rents artificially high.

seamus · 10-10-2012 05:30PM

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

The higher wage levels are a higher cost in everything produced and service provided in the country. If we were being paid the wage levels of the cheaper countries our prices wouldn't be as high. Bit of a vicious circle.

We also have high transport and energy costs, partially due to higher wages, but also down to duties and taxes.

The cost of living is actually relatively complex, but I would expect Ireland even in a stable & happy economy to be one of the most expensive places to live, primarily because we're an island with a small and well spread out population.

While cities individually tend to be expensive (because space is at a premium), it's the countries with small populations that tend overall to be more expensive because they have to import more goods, and it costs more to import smaller quantities of such goods.

Dodge · 10-10-2012 05:32PM

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Bit of a vicious circle.

Thats it. Wages have come down significantly, particularly in the public sector.

Inflation has eased, but the cost of basics goods hasn't come down at all. Some 'luxury' items are now cheaper than 4/5 years ago but that masks the fact that the stuff required to live on hasn't come down

So we're left with many items costing the same as 4/5 years and many people having less income to spend. So economy stagnates.

Can't decrease wages much further as economy will shrink even further

Go on boards, flame away...

eth0 · 10-10-2012 05:32PM

seamus wrote: »

The state is broke, but most people aren't.

We have a stupidly high level of personal savings. The cost of living is still high because people are still well paid on average, so can still afford the higher prices of goods.

We have a stupidly high level of personal debt.

Fizman · 10-10-2012 05:33PM

seamus wrote: »

The state is broke, but most people aren't.

We have a stupidly high level of personal savings. The cost of living is still high because people are still well paid on average, so can still afford the higher prices of goods.

I would be very grateful if you pointed me in the direction of my stupidly high personal savings account.

Thank you in advance.

donegal_road · 10-10-2012 05:48PM

I find Ireland to be better value for certain things than countries like Canada, Denmark and the UK for example. It is all relative, for example a box of 25 cigarettes in Canada (Ontario) is $16 Can, which is approx €13. Petrol in Canada is approx $1.35 Can which is very good value until you have to drive twice the distance to get from A to B.
Petrol in the UK has been more expensive than ROI up until now, and the difference is still only marginal. Groceries have become expensive up North (for certain things) yet wage levels remain considerably lower than in the Republic.

Booze from an off license is cheaper up North, but more expensive in Canada and Denmark than it is here. Going to the pub in Canada is considerably more expensive than here.

Fizman · 10-10-2012 05:51PM

donegal_road wrote: »

I find Ireland to be better value for certain things than countries like Canada, Denmark and the UK for example. It is all relative, for example a box of 25 cigarettes in Canada (Ontario) is $16 Can, which is approx €13. Petrol in Canada is approx $1.35 Can which is very good value until you have to drive twice the distance to get from A to B.
Petrol in the UK has been more expensive than ROI up until now, and the difference is still only marginal. Groceries have become expensive up North (for certain things) yet wage levels remain considerably lower than in the Republic.

Booze from an off license is cheaper up North, but more expensive in Canada and Denmark than it is here. Going to the pub in Canada is considerably more expensive than here.

Not too sure I get your point here, can you elaborate?

donegal_road · 10-10-2012 06:01PM

Fizman wrote: »

Not too sure I get your point here, can you elaborate?

I lived in Toronto, there were people who drove more than 2 hours to get to work in the morning, and you are still considered to be in the Greater Toronto Area (gta)

Fighting Irish · 10-10-2012 06:05PM

donegal_road wrote: »

I lived in Toronto, there were people who drove more than 2 hours to get to work in the morning, and you are still considered to be in the Greater Toronto Area (gta)

lol

celtictiger32 · 10-10-2012 06:07PM

can someone lend me a euro 20euro

Fizman · 10-10-2012 06:09PM

donegal_road wrote: »

I lived in Toronto, there were people who drove more than 2 hours to get to work in the morning, and you are still considered to be in the Greater Toronto Area (gta)

My friend, what you are referring to there is A to D. Think of it as A to B, but around twice the distance.

A to B still exists in Canada. (As does A to D in Ireland).

RADIUS · 10-10-2012 06:09PM

celtictiger32 wrote: »

can someone lend me a euro 20euro

One of these might be able to help you out;

http://www.ecb.int/home/html/index.en.html

http://www.imf.org/external/index.htm

tayto lover · 10-10-2012 06:09PM

seamus wrote: »

The state is broke, but most people aren't.

We have a stupidly high level of personal savings. The cost of living is still high because people are still well paid on average, so can still afford the higher prices of goods.

We have a stupid high level of dopey politicians you mean.
Where is the evidence of high savings among the working population. The high savers are also the rich, well protected friends of the high and mighty. You talk some tosh when standing up for the the stupidity of the party you love.

Mikros · 10-10-2012 06:09PM

Ireland's Household debt levels are 64.8% above the euro area average. Overall our total real economic debt runs at a 524% of our GDP and 650% of our GNP. We're number 1 there.

That means it is very difficult to reduce wages as a lot of people are servicing this debt. High wages feed into higher cost of living. Cutting wages would reduce costs but the debt will remain the same (and in fact continue to grow with the interest) reducing further the amount of money in circulation. The government is borrowing billions to keep the economy propped up through social welfare and public service pay.

In the absence of either sustained growth or inflation or defaults it will all break down eventually.

Hidalgo · 10-10-2012 06:17PM

tayto lover wrote: »

We have a stupid high level of dopey politicians you mean.
Where is the evidence of high savings among the working population. The high savers are also the rich, well protected friends of the high and mighty. You talk some tosh when standing up for the the stupidity of the party you love.

Are our politicians any more dopey than other EU states?? Is it simply dopey politicians that caused fiscal problems in Spain, Greece, Italy etc??

tayto lover · 10-10-2012 06:27PM

Hidalgo wrote: »

Are our politicians any more dopey than other EU states?? Is it simply dopey politicians that caused fiscal problems in Spain, Greece, Italy etc??

Just as bad if not worse i'd say. Did you ever watch the antics from the Dail and all the fake bickering. We have far too many highly paid parasites of politicians who are only in the job to self-serve.

books4sale · 10-10-2012 06:28PM

The high cost of living these days has a lot to do with the high cost of energy and fuel, being an island that imports practically everything doesn't help.

The policies of the government don't help much either welcoming huge multinationals with open arms (which is fine) but failing to support small fledgling homegrown businesses that could eventually have massive potential.

Celly Smunt · 10-10-2012 06:28PM

donegal_road wrote: »

I find Ireland to be better value for certain things than countries like Canada, Denmark and the UK for example. It is all relative, for example a box of 25 cigarettes in Canada (Ontario) is $16 Can, which is approx €13. Petrol in Canada is approx $1.35 Can which is very good value until you have to drive twice the distance to get from A to B.

Booze from an off license is cheaper up North, but more expensive in Canada and Denmark than it is here. Going to the pub in Canada is considerably more expensive than here.

First of all,where the hell are you buying your cigarettes that cost $16.The motorway system in Ontario is a fine system,you can go twice the distance in in the same time compared to Ireland because people know how to use the thing.Traffic is subtle as the towns are well planned also.Therefore travelling distances isn't too bad at all.

As for booze,you must buy your pints in the same place you buy your smokes.

seamus · 10-10-2012 06:55PM

tayto lover wrote: »

We have a stupid high level of dopey politicians you mean.
Where is the evidence of high savings among the working population. The high savers are also the rich, well protected friends of the high and mighty. You talk some tosh when standing up for the the stupidity of the party you love.

What party, what are you talking about? Are you so completely blinded by your prejudice that you need to stick people into little boxes?

How about you present some links to counter what I've said instead of bleating on about "de ordinairy wurkers" and "dem der rich feckers wot did ruin are cuntry"?

eth0 · 10-10-2012 07:05PM

seamus wrote: »

What party, what are you talking about? Are you so completely blinded by your prejudice that you need to stick people into little boxes?

How about you present some links to counter what I've said instead of bleating on about "de ordinairy wurkers" and "dem der rich feckers wot did ruin are cuntry"?

You didn't provide any links yourself either. Looks like you'd rather come up with a little condescending dig at another poster than go through that trouble

seamus · 10-10-2012 07:11PM

eth0 wrote: »

You didn't provide any links yourself either. Looks like you'd rather come up with a little condescending dig at another poster than go through that trouble

Wow, it's wagon-circling time here in AH I see.
Report from the beginning of 2012: http://www.mii.ie/uploads/ConsumerMarketMonitor_2012_Q1.pdf

The level of personal saving in Ireland increased dramatically over the past three years, from a low of 3 % of disposable income in 2007 to a high of 12 % in 2010. The average for the past decade has been 5.4%.
The household savings ratio was 13% in 2011 and it is not expected to reduce much in the next few years as consumers prioritise repaying personal loans and mortgage debt over current spending.

From July this year: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0727/1224320883450.html

Of course, the rebuttal will be claims of biase and propaganda, and "the Irish Times and UCD are in Enda Kenny's pocket".

dvpower · 10-10-2012 07:28PM

seamus wrote: »

Of course, the rebuttal will be claims of biase and propaganda, and "the Irish Times and UCD are in Enda Kenny's pocket".

The CSO figures (for example here and here) show strong household savings.

Naturally, I don't expect CSO figures to be accepted by many of the usual suspects, being as they are under the control of the blueshirts. :eek:

Islander13 · 10-10-2012 07:32PM

pmcmahon wrote: »

First of all,where the hell are you buying your cigarettes that cost $16.The motorway system in Ontario is a fine system,you can go twice the distance in in the same time compared to Ireland because people know how to use the thing.Traffic is subtle as the towns are well planned also.Therefore travelling distances isn't too bad at all.

As for booze,you must buy your pints in the same place you buy your smokes.

people know how to use the thing you say. We don't know how to use roads here? Hmm. I find an hour on the motorway in one country equates to an hour anywhere else pretty much though maybe I'm missing something

donegal_road · 10-10-2012 07:33PM

pmcmahon wrote: »

First of all,where the hell are you buying your cigarettes that cost $16.The motorway system in Ontario is a fine system,you can go twice the distance in in the same time compared to Ireland because people know how to use the thing.Traffic is subtle as the towns are well planned also.Therefore travelling distances isn't too bad at all.

As for booze,you must buy your pints in the same place you buy your smokes.

Ok, I know that you can pay up to $15 Can for the more expensive smokes, my point about the road system was that because Canada is a much more spread out country, you tend to cover larger distances therefore you use more gas, even though gas is cheaper than in Ireland etc.

When I drank in my local in Toronto back in 2003, a pint of Guinness was $8, a pint of Honey Brown or Nut Brown was $6.50, I can only image that it would have risen in price 9 years later.

You can still get 3 Guinness at my local here for €10, and I know thats an exception because it is Donegal. There are quite a few pubs in Dublin that do €4 per pint.

Rabidlamb · 10-10-2012 07:41PM

davet82 wrote: »

Since we were ranked the second most expensive country to live in, in 2008, should prices not be coming down faster now the country is broke?

OP, the cost of living is high in Ireland as there's a protected group of 300,000 who earn €15k more a year than the average citizen.

petersburg2002 · 10-10-2012 07:47PM

davet82 wrote: »

Since we were ranked the second most expensive country to live in, in 2008, should prices not be coming down faster now the country is broke?

I think the CSO also stated that inflation had hardly budged in 5 years. So that should help. I have noticed that hotel prices (especially in Dublin) are much cheaper than a few years ago. Electrical items also seem to be much cheaper. And diesel and petrol are now cheaper than in Northern ireland. Food is still crazily expensive though.

dvpower · 10-10-2012 08:02PM

petersburg2002 wrote: »

I think the CSO also stated that inflation had hardly budged in 5 years. So that should help. I have noticed that hotel prices (especially in Dublin) are much cheaper than a few years ago. Electrical items also seem to be much cheaper. And diesel and petrol are now cheaper than in Northern ireland. Food is still crazily expensive though.

That's probably about right according to this.

We had the second lowest inflation in the EU at the start of the year according to the CSO.

Why is Ireland still so expensive to live in?

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